I think a lot of people are down on American cheese based on its worst, cheapest variants. *Good* American cheese is, hands down, the best cheese for a cheeseburger. I mean, there's no debate there. It has a mild -- but not overwhelming -- cheesy flavour, and it has the perfect gooey consistency that melds with the beef in the best way possible.

http://www.seriouseats.com/2016/07/whats-really-in-american-cheese.html

I understand your discomfort with my phrasing. My beef is with the electoral college system.

While I was getting my degree, I took some really good American History and Government classes at college. The prof in the Govt. class really went into depth explaining the electoral college to us, and to me the shittiness of that system was just shocking. For example: (none of this is news to a truly informed voter or an interested person with an internet connection, but it WAS news to me when I was ~20 years old, and I think it still would be news to a really high percentage of US voters)

* First is the very idea of an electoral college. The only way to become president of the US is to win the most electoral votes. But voters don't cast electoral votes, the people of the electoral college do. OK, the electoral college is supposed to follow the votes/will of their state/constituents (more on that next), but the fact remains that literally/practically, our votes as citizens don't matter. Only the electoral votes count. So yes, in the most literal sense ... NONE of our votes "matter".

* In general, the "electors" (the people on the electoral college) are supposed to cast their electoral votes to the winner of the popular vote in their state / district. I think 2 states (Nebraska and Maine?) divide up their suggested electoral votes to be as close as possible to the actual proportions of the popular vote, but that's a whole other issue. Anyway, in general the electors are supposed to cast their vote for the popular vote winner in their state. BUT, that process isn't automatic. The votes that actually matter, the electoral votes, are cast by fallible human beings -- and they might "go rogue" and vote against what they are "supposed to" do. That is called a "faithless elector". That would be bad enough if it was just some weird loophole that technically exists but has never actually happened in practice, but actually faithless electors happen fairly frequently. The only upside is that they haven't ever changed the outcome of an election. Yet.

* When we're young and in civics type classes in school, we're brainwashedtaught about Democracy as a very simple, will of the public, one man one vote system. The electoral college shits all over that. One can win the popular vote but lose on electoral votes, and that actually has happened multiple times (not just to Al Gore). In my opinion, the electoral college creates a laundry list of problems (swing states are the only ones that matter, so campaign there and ignore everybody else, etc. etc. etc.), has very few benefits (any supposed benefits of the system are tenuous at best), and is completely contrary to the core concepts of Democracy.


Without the electoral college, a blue vote in Kansas would matter, as would a red vote in Massachusetts. Or a vote for a 3rd party or independent, anywhere. With the electoral college, edge cases like any of those can be safely and easily ignored by candidates.

I think it is unlikely that Kansas would turn blue, even if all of the democrats voted. That being said, we're not a complete LOCK for red; heck, out of the 10 most recent Governors we've had before we turned into Brownbackistan it is an even split between Democrats and Republicans with 5 each. And actually the Democrats had significantly longer total number of years in the office.

So basically, I don't actually think that a vote cast on a losing candidate is "pointless", I just think that the electoral college system does a really good job of making sure that some votes are more pointless than others. It amazes me that there wasn't a MUCH bigger stink made about it when Gore "lost" in 2000, but I guess voter apathy can overcome any challenge to the system.

What i find a shame is that they can legally charge me $20,000 for 3 hrs in the hospital because i fell off my bike (which ill be in debt for forever probably), or 750 dollars a month they want to charge me at costco for one of the antidepressants I was taking (paid about 100 a month from Canada for the generic which they cant sell in the US). Also there is the $8500 my dentist wants to replace two of my front teeth which ill need in the next year or two. Personally ill take my chances with socialized medicine as I dont have the kind of money it takes to get better when i get sick or hurt. None of us should have to choose between medical attention/medication and the ability to eat or pay the bills. Thats just the way I see it. Thanks for letting me vent.

edit
Charging a patient $15 for a Tylenol is an absolute legal healthcare fraud(imo), but thats just good American business. http://www.rd.com/slideshows/wildly-overinflated-hospital-costs/#slideshow=slide1

and my apologies for going off topic @MrFisk

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:

If anyone can pull off a good American remake, it's Fincher.


I saw it and although the movie did a LOT of things right. The fundamental thing it got wrong for me was the main reason why I like the books and the swedish movies. The relationship between Lisbeth and Mikael wasn't treated in the way it should've been, like it was the most important thing. They just worked together and then the sex. There wasn't any "storytelling" to do with the fact that this antisocial girl was letting her guard down and letting Mikael in...it just didn't work and I eventually walked out of the movie something I never ever do.

I really REALLY wanted to like it, and I enjoyed parts of it. But the soul of the story the two main characters anchoring the entire thing felt just wrong to me.

If anyone can pull off a good American remake, it's Fincher.

>> ^bcglorf: It seems silly, the link is to the page you are reading now!
Here's the quotes for the benefit of others so there's no risk of anyone falling for your foolishness.
1. I claimed You dismiss everything from CNN, BBC and citizen journalism all as pro American fabrications.
You've said the following to support this claim:
Unbiased? So no mainstream news media then? Which covers the CNN and BBC claim.
Of course they're blaming Assad, that's what foreign-funded activists are paid to say. Which covers the citizen journalism side.
2.I claimed You dismiss everything from Al Jazeera as American funded propaganda.
You've said the following to support this claim:
Al Jazeera is state owned by Qatar, the same government sending weapons to Libya's Benghazi rebels (al-Qeada) Seems that Al Jazeera is sinful by association with Qatar, which is supporting the Benghazi rebels like a good American puppet. For those new to this, the Al Qaeda claim is not only taking Gadhafi at his word, it is also stated in the belief that America or it's evil puppet masters support Al Qaeda, making Qatar's support of Al Qaeda proof it's all still part of the conspiracy.
Suffice it to say, you've soundly rejected Al Jazeera as biased against the Syrian public and part of some foreign sourced insurrection there.
3.My last claim was You ACCEPT everything from Bashir Al-Assad's regime's media outlets as truth.
You've said the following to support this claim:
Well to be fair, I'm pretty sure they kicked out all foreigners. Can't really blame them when Foreign Intelligence members are the main instigators of the rebellions.
And the best gem of them all:
The truth is we don't know who is killing the civilians.
All you seem to know is that Assad is the one making sure everyone is silenced and that no information gets out. How convenient you can then throw up your hands and say we just don't know who is killing who.
The truth is survivors and defectors that escape are all telling the same story, Assad's men are killing unarmed civilians and are shooting any soldiers refusing to fire on the unarmed civilians as well.




I didn't dismiss anything. Earlier in the thread, I made a dig at mainstream media in general when ali wanted an "unbiased" source. I've posted links from Reuters, Washington Post, New York Times, CNN, so you're not making any fucking sense.
And as far as "Assad's regime's media outlets", I have no idea what you're talking about.

In wars and armed conflicts you never know all the facts. You shouldn't accept any report from any news source at face value unless you can corroborate it with other sources. Even then you're likely only getting part of the truth. Al Jazerra repeatably makes disclaimers in this video that they don't know the facts.

Given the circumstances and Assad's short history, I don't buy that he's ordering his army to open fire on civilians. Al Jazerra nearly always has a pro-Western spin and given the fact that Qatar is openly supporting NATO in Libya, they are clearly going to be biased when reporting on Syria. There's little credibility to anything they choose to broadcast on the subject.

There was a story about a month ago or so, where the Syrian army was ambushed in one city and something like 120 army servicemen killed. Did unarmed civilians do that? I also remember first hearing about civilians being killed by snipers that were part of Assad's "secret police". So I guess it could be Assad's men, but why would he use covert police AND the military? Doesn't make any sense. The more likely scenario is that foreign agents dressed as Assad's security force are opening fire on civilians. They're probably even doing it behind the backs of the activists they recruited and organized to protest.

But even if it is Assad that's gunning down civilians, it's not our fight. It's an internal conflict. Aiding one side or the other only brings about wider conflict with more fighting and more death.

Are these also Assad's forces shooting indiscriminately from inside this car?

>> ^marbles:

>> ^bcglorf:
>> ^marbles:
>> ^bcglorf:
Of course they're blaming Assad, that's what foreign-funded activists are paid to say.
BTW, Al Jazeera is state owned by Qatar
As I guessed, you consider even Al Jazeera to be a right wing funded anti-arab propaganda machine...
You are insane.
For the sane people, it's Al Jazeera interviewing Syrian refugees in Turkey and reporting that Al-Assad's forces are deliberately and systematically killing unarmed protesters. Your insistent denial of this and refusal to acknowledge it is beyond sick, it's actively harmful. It's people like you that are the paid tools and sycophants of the worst murderous dictators in the world today.

Instead of trying to characterize me into something you don't like and attacking me, try attacking my argument.

You dismiss everything from CNN, BBC and citizen journalism all as pro American fabrications. Fine.
You dismiss everything from Al Jazeera as American funded propaganda. Crazy, but if you like tinfoil hats that's your choice.
You ACCEPT everything from Bashir Al-Assad's regime's media outlets as truth...
The above is the characterization you've painted for yourself, and it's infinitely worse than anything I could try and project onto you.

Please provide a citation for any and all of your claims if you wish to be taken seriously.


It seems silly, the link is to the page you are reading now!

Here's the quotes for the benefit of others so there's no risk of anyone falling for your foolishness.

1. I claimed You dismiss everything from CNN, BBC and citizen journalism all as pro American fabrications.
You've said the following to support this claim:
Unbiased? So no mainstream news media then? Which covers the CNN and BBC claim.
Of course they're blaming Assad, that's what foreign-funded activists are paid to say. Which covers the citizen journalism side.

2.I claimed You dismiss everything from Al Jazeera as American funded propaganda.
You've said the following to support this claim:
Al Jazeera is state owned by Qatar, the same government sending weapons to Libya's Benghazi rebels (al-Qeada) Seems that Al Jazeera is sinful by association with Qatar, which is supporting the Benghazi rebels like a good American puppet. For those new to this, the Al Qaeda claim is not only taking Gadhafi at his word, it is also stated in the belief that America or it's evil puppet masters support Al Qaeda, making Qatar's support of Al Qaeda proof it's all still part of the conspiracy.
Suffice it to say, you've soundly rejected Al Jazeera as biased against the Syrian public and part of some foreign sourced insurrection there.

3.My last claim was You ACCEPT everything from Bashir Al-Assad's regime's media outlets as truth.
You've said the following to support this claim:
Well to be fair, I'm pretty sure they kicked out all foreigners. Can't really blame them when Foreign Intelligence members are the main instigators of the rebellions.

And the best gem of them all:
The truth is we don't know who is killing the civilians.

All you seem to know is that Assad is the one making sure everyone is silenced and that no information gets out. How convenient you can then throw up your hands and say we just don't know who is killing who.

The truth is survivors and defectors that escape are all telling the same story, Assad's men are killing unarmed civilians and are shooting any soldiers refusing to fire on the unarmed civilians as well.

BTW Lee Bamber's cockney-ish accent in this is far less convincing than his very good American one. He's just too middle-class to play working-class blokes.

All he needs is some good American anti-depressants, then he'll be just fine.

Just like all of us.

Right?

For goodness sake, who do I give all my funny money to to make the pain go away?!

>> ^spoco2:
Really, Anime fricken leaves me so cold. People wax on and on and on and on about how it's so damn superior to western animation, but really, so much of it is lazy...


Well, I generally think that orchestral music is better than "hip hop", but that doesn't mean that all orchestral music is good or that all hip hop is bad.

As far as japanese anime, there is some crap out there, but there is some amazing stuff too. Princess Mononoke is wonderful, as is Cowboy Bebop (NOT the english version, holy crap it sucks).

There is also some very good american anime (I count Pixar in that), but I think the japanese really were the main ones pushing animation as an art form rather than saturday morning children's entertainment.


Anime films I've watched include:
Ghost in the Shell: Reasonably entertaining back when I watched it many moons ago
Princess Mononoke: It was so hyped by a co-worker a number of years back... watched it, was very bored by it
Ninja Scroll: Pretty sure I watched this one way back, was ok I think... nothing amazing
An Episode of Cowboy Bebop: Yup...


The Ghost in the Shell series is way better than the movie. Ninja Scroll is neat... I could watch it again, but it isn't high only "best of" list. Cowboy Bebop is great, though one episode in the middle of a continuous storyline won't give you a good idea of its merits.

Also, if you're watching these in english (with the possible exceptions of Mononoke or FLCL) then I can definitely see why you think japanese anime sucks.

Now we know what true, good Americans look like.

I'm going to invest in the recreational cannabis industry!
70% goes into the pockets of good americans like me!!

Yes, Jordass, you are wrong:

You're branding ALL europeans, as far as i can tell, as racists. (and that's ironic)

I'm not racist, phobic, anti american or any damn thing. Shit, i date an american girl, she's great. But i do think the actions and attitudes of the USA have brought their reputation on theirselves. People think "OMG IRAQ WAR = REASON WE ARE HATED", but it goes a lot further than that. Over here in england, about 10 years ago, when the "i'll sue your ass" culture started appearing, it was ALWAYS referred to as "that american attitude of blame" or something else with the word "america" in it.

Be it through years of sub-standard or mis-directed education, poor choices of government, poor choices BY government, apathy, ignorance, or ruthless chasing of 'the american dream' at the expense of anybody. The reasons for widespread anti-americanism goes so much deeper. Couple that with some unintentional media bias - let's not assault them without some kind of evidence please - and you've got an epidemic.

Just as how deep it goes in Britain now. We had a great education system, our economy and trade industries were powerful, our streets were peaceful, we had a free national health system that WORKED WELL... We had so many things that made me feel proud to be british. And through apathy, bad voting, bad media, swallowing lies, watering down of the education system, poor planning....... i could go on......... it's now gone, and my country is a pathetic shadow of its former self.

That's our fault! So is it your fault!

Don't look for an excuse to mitigate your problems. That's for losers and last time i checked the true honest good americans weren't losers!

Upvote for putting his hand over his heart when he says "think." Good American.

>> ^Tofumar:
BansheeX said: "First of all, I can't believe someone just defended welfare and Social Security. Like, seriously, can't believe it. I just vomited in my own freaking lap."
If you "can't believe someone would defend" our social programs, then you should probably put down your copy of Atlas Shrugged and get out more. Most people across the American political spectrum support the continued funding of these programs in one form or another, to greater and lesser extents.
So, I guess that means you'll need to take some Pepto Bismol with you. You should also take along a copy of Baker and Weisbrot's "Social Security: The Phony Crisis," but you'll have to stop wretching long enough to read it.


Yeah, just reference a terrible book full of utopian expectations and a distorted view of our economic situation without addressing the numbers themselves, or any of the numerous logic and moral cruxes with the system itself, which I've explained to you in great detail above. That book hilariously assumed we have a trust fund. We don't. It wrongly assumes that our economy has been growing and will continue to grow, and that we can expect this growth to fund the system indefinitely. However, it hasn't grown. We've had a borrow and spend economy that is increasingly dependent on foreign creditors who are eventually going to pull the plug when they figure out that lending money to over-leveraged americans who won't be able to pay it back is a terrible investment. When the gold standard was abolished by Nixon in 1971, it gave the government the power to print money at will to fund whatever it wanted without having to follow a budget or propose tax increases in order to fund psychotic wars and deleterious socialist programs that the ignorant and manipulated populace is too dumb to oppose. People pay indirectly through inflation (an incremental misdirection that causes average folk to blame products themselves and not the fed) and eventually economic depression. The fed has been creating bubbles to avoid a recession for a long time and to create the illusion of steady economic growth. In reality, we've gone from the largest creditor nation to the largest debtor nation, we've gone from a manufacturing based economy to a service based economy, we've gone from a trade surplus to a trade deficit, and when the US Dollar collapses, products that were once going to non-productive Americans with false prosperity based on debt will start going to the producers themselves, the Chinese of the world. But hey, as long as your pretty numbers are going up and your confidence in the system is retained by government and corporate propoganda, the unlimited credit card strategy of growth seems infinitely sustainable, right? Do yourself a favor and start listening to truly smart economists who aren't blinded by these things and whose predictions have actually come true.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rhJaVEWAG24
http://youtube.com/watch?v=emvMqjtcO7o
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ywLt1AebjMY

Greenspan converted the tech stock bubble losses into a bigger real estate bubble in the late 90s order to delay that recession (people WANT constant growth, so they elect people who stave off a recession without realizing that what they're doing is frosaking small immediate pain for larger future pain). The real estate bubble just started its collapse. The stimulus package is another political move in which the government is borrowing more money that ultimately does more harm than good Americans because it comes at the cost of more inflation and eroding international trust. It is attempting to solve over-spending with more over-spending.

The stock market "grows" nominally every year, but that's when it's priced in dollars and the value of the dollar is being debased with inflation which is also much higher than the fed is letting on with its fudged CPI measurements. So if you have 8% annual inflation and a 10% gain on the stock market, it's really only gained 2% legitimate growth over the year. If you price the stock markets in something which can't be debased, an asset like gold, the markets have been declining for the past decade. People need to wake up to this. This is how the system works, it's intentionally confusing so that the average person like yourself just thinks everything is okay.