BOO! Where's his little running in place jig?

>> ^spoco2:

Ahh Matt, gold again, gold! I love that he went the extra step this time and tried different dances of the people he visited, and did some choreographed bits with people, worked really well.
The song isn't a patch on Gary's last song Praan (Still gets requested at least once a week by the kids in the car), but is still pretty nice with the images.

Ahh Matt, gold again, gold! I love that he went the extra step this time and tried different dances of the people he visited, and did some choreographed bits with people, worked really well.

The song isn't a patch on Gary's last song Praan (Still gets requested at least once a week by the kids in the car), but is still pretty nice with the images.

@Deano I played Ever Quest and so on and Diablo and all that, so playing WoW was almost inevitable for me. My brother and I started playing as soon as it came out, almost. I delayed and he talked me into it. We always played together and gaming as a family was always fun!

I remember being impressed with the graphics and all that, but that's diminished over time, haha, of course.

After a while, the sheer amount of time dedicated kept me going and I love hoarding things and oh my did I have a collection of crap.

I'm actually finding it really hard to answer what I really like about WoW. I really miss vanilla WoW when you would raid as a group of 40 people. I never got far into Naxx but the feeling of satisfaction derived from everyone moving in this carefully choreographed dance to down one boss and bicker over the item dropped, haha. Fun.

A fair summary, though I should point out that I was trying to claim that you implied there was no craft or artistry to The Raid (with your unfair Ass comparison), not Ebert.

I think we've beaten this dead horse to a pulp at this point, but I'd like to also point out that, though you may not be able to achieve transcendence from a martial arts film, I think it can have other pleasures that are equally as valid. And I'm not saying that all you want is transcendence from a film, but obviously you're placing more value on it with your comparison.

As I said before, I think that a film whose sole objective is pure entertainment can have just as much value as a film whose ambitions are more weighty. A movie like, say, Singin' in the Rain's sole purpose is to put a smile on your face. The characters aren't particularly deep, nor is the romance anything that hasn't been done a million times before. But it's a classic, and rightfully so, because it's really well made, the dance numbers are inventive, the performers are all very charismatic, and the songs are catchy. It's a very fun movie, and there's not much more to it than that, and that's okay.

I personally think that there is a lot of pleasure to be had from a really well-executed, complexly choreographed fight scene. You disagree. But that's fine; art is subjective. It would be pretty boring if we all agreed on everything.

And yes, I think The Raid is art.

Preamble: Much as I hate going through these sorts of exercises, they are sometimes necessary, particularly when a thread has gotten large. People forget what they're responding to; what the topic really is at the time they're responding, leaps of logic, etc. One thing's certain about these summaries: they're always helpful. <- Yes, that's a boast.
1. I posted some quotes from Roger Ebert's review (and blog) that I thought captured my own feelings about The Raid, including a brash comparison to the joke movie Ass featured in Mike Judge's hilarious flick Idiocracy.

2. I get dressed down by Sarzy for said comparison. Sarzy also claims Ebert said there was no craft or artistry to The Raid (which he never actually said, but never mind) and that The Raid is a martial arts milestone.

3. ChaosEngine makes an amusing ad populum argument and later makes a strong case for the merit of terse storytelling and inference of story elements.

4. I ask Sarzy why The Raid is a milestone.

5. Sarzy responds with many heartfelt testimonials by sympathetic reviewers, personal opinions, and lauds its choreography and direction.

6. I excise all the subjective-slanted testimony and focus on what is demonstrably true about The Raid: it was choreographed and directed with great care. I point out that without context (story), conflict is without meaning.

7. ChaosEngine gives it one last try with another amusing post about inference of story elements on the part of the viewer and indirectly calls me a prick. Classy!

8. I respond to ChaosEngine by inferring a wonderful storyline to Ass, instantly making it one of the best joke movies I'd ever watched.

9. Sarzy points out that plenty of other genres of film are short on story. The best examples are the "meditative" styles featured in art houses and the like.

10. I respond to Sarzy's excellent point by citing other possible gains (transcendence) by watching these "meditative" style pictures, gains that are not possible (in my opinion) with martial arts pictures. I remind him that I am responding to his point with, and I quote, "...I am merely responding to your point about the role of story."

11. Despite my reminder, Sarzy erroneously concludes that every film I see must transcend me to another plane even though all I was doing was attempting to shoot a hole in Sarzy's point about other films that are loose on story.

And that pretty much brings us up to date.

But do you see how helpful these summaries can be? They're my little innovation. You internet kids and your short attention spans made its creation a necessity.

This movie was great. Fight scenes were fast, very well choreographed and often very brutal; the heroes are definitely not afraid to use weapons. I was also surprised that the story and acting were quite good, well above average for your typical martial arts movie. Great movie, there

>> ^Sarzy:

I like Ebert, but he is way off on this one. I have noticed that in recent years, his tolerance for movies with a lot of violence and death has gone down -- perhaps it's an unwelcome reminder of his own looming mortality. It's unfortunate, because this is a superlative martial arts film, and Ebert has shown a fondness for these types of movies in the past.
And shuac, I think comparing this film -- which has some of the most intricately choreographed, beautifully violent and skillfully shot/edited action that we've seen in years -- to "Ass" is, to put it bluntly, idiotic. It's also condescendingly dismissive of 50+ years of martial arts action cinema, in which this film is easily a milestone -- a culmination of the types of films made by stars like Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, and Donnie Yen. I can agree with Ebert that the characters are (intentionally) thin in this movie, but to imply that there is no artistry or craft at work here is, again, idiotic.
I am going to promote this, because it is awesome.


One question for you, Sarzy. You say this film is a milestone. I'm sure you're right. Can you tell me why this film is a milestone?

I like Ebert, but he is way off on this one. I have noticed that in recent years, his tolerance for movies with a lot of violence and death has gone down -- perhaps it's an unwelcome reminder of his own looming mortality. It's unfortunate, because this is a superlative martial arts film, and Ebert has shown a fondness for these types of movies in the past.

And shuac, I think comparing this film -- which has some of the most intricately choreographed, beautifully violent and skillfully shot/edited action that we've seen in years -- to "Ass" is, to put it bluntly, idiotic. It's also condescendingly dismissive of 50+ years of martial arts action cinema, in which this film is easily a milestone -- a culmination of the types of films made by stars like Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, and Donnie Yen. I can agree with Ebert that the characters are (intentionally) thin in this movie, but to imply that there is no artistry or craft at work here is, again, idiotic.

I am going to *promote this, because it is awesome.

I liked Ebert's take on it:

"'The Raid: Redemption' is essentially a visualized video game that spares the audience the inconvenience of playing it."

"There's obviously an audience for the film, probably a large one. They are content, even eager, to sit in a theater and watch one action figure after another pound and blast one another to death. Have you noticed how cats and dogs will look at a TV screen on which there are things jumping around? It is to that level of the brain's reptilian complex that the film appeals."

"So what am I saying? "The Raid: Redemption" failed as a generic success because it simplified its plot too much? Not really. It is a generic success. And yet my heart sank and I asked myself: Is this all they want? Are audiences satisfied with ceaseless violence, just so long as they can praise it for being "well choreographed?" Is there no appreciation for human dimension, meaning, and morality?"

Nice job overall but a lot looked much too choreographed.

My brain just can't parse this video - all these incongruous elements: Non-chalante entry of little brother; but then obviously choreographed sequence. Painting hung on the outside of their back door. Obvious planning of video and angle, but then they include grandma, dog, garbage, and mop in shot. Mix of stereotypical martial sequences and just kind of "high school dance bobbing". Lack of facial expressions. Mix of well-practiced and fairly inept moves with swords. Whole video.

Anyways, awesome find. But I have to stop watching or my brain is going to start leaking smoke.

That was a little harsh. Though kids are generally pretty tough, a fall like that can break bones. I was hoping the band would start choreographed movement and bump the kid around like a pinball. Oh, well.

>> ^budzos:

U mad?
I bet you wish you could souplex me into a pyramid of soup cans right now! Then I'd know wrestling isn't fake, or something, right? Plus it would be equivalent to Shakespeare!
>> ^Duckman33:
>> ^budzos:
Wrestling is far more fake than movies or TV.

Exactly how is that Einstein? It's based on a script, just like movies or TV. It has acting. Just like movies or TV. It has choreographed/scripted fights just like movies or TV. So tell me how it's "far more fake" than movies or TV.



LOL. No I'm not mad. That comment ranks up there with some of the most ignorant things I have seen say on the web. "Wrestling is more fake than TV or movies". LOL

>> ^budzos:

Wrestling is far more fake than movies or TV.


Exactly how is that Einstein? It's based on a script, just like movies or TV. It has acting. Just like movies or TV. It has choreographed/scripted fights just like movies or TV. So tell me how it's "far more fake" than movies or TV.