>> ^imstellar28:
Three men walk into a bar. Two go and find a seat while the other heads to the bar to buy the first round. As he approaches the barman, the barman can't help but notice how well-to-do this man looks. He is covered head to toe in the finest garments and jewelry, he is even wearing a crown, a monocle, and carrying a scepter. In short, all the trappings of a cartoon billionaire. As the bar man is pulling the pints he remarks to the gentlemen: "I hope you don't think I'm prying, but, I couldn't help but notice you seem pretty well off. How, may I ask did you come into such a fortune?"
the man replies:" Well, me and my friends over there found a genie in a beer bottle outside, and he granted us each a wish"
barman:"So, I take it you wished to be the richest man in the world"
The man puts one finger on his nose, and points at the barman with the other hand, as you would in a game of charades
barman:" Not a bad choice at all if i do say so"
The man nods politely, pays for the round and goes over to his friends
After a while, the second man goes up to the bar. This man is notable only insofar as he can barely be seen for all the beautiful woman draped around him, seemingly caressing every available inch of his body. He orders another round which the barman dutifully pulls. As he finishes off the last pint he can't help but comment: "I hope you don't mind me asking but, you are a friend of that wealthy gentlemen over there aren't you?"
"I am indeed" murmurs the man from beneath the pile of beauties.
"And you wished to be the most attractive man in the world"
"Pretty much, yeah"
"Excellent choice sir, enjoy your round" says the barman with the kind of knowing smile you tend to see on people vicariously appreciating the implied sexual exploits of a stranger. So he shuffles back to the table and him and his friends have their drinks. Not long later the third man approaches the bar and asks for another round. The barman cannot help but notice this man has an orange for a head. But he carries on pulling the pints in silence, until he cannot contain himself any longer and asks
"You found the genie too right?"
"That's correct" replies the man with an orange for a head.
"And what did you wish for, if you don't mind me asking?"
"I wished to have an orange for a head"


That's so funny I forgot to laugh!

(betcha neva herd dat)

Three men walk into a bar. Two go and find a seat while the other heads to the bar to buy the first round. As he approaches the barman, the barman can't help but notice how well-to-do this man looks. He is covered head to toe in the finest garments and jewelry, he is even wearing a crown, a monocle, and carrying a scepter. In short, all the trappings of a cartoon billionaire. As the bar man is pulling the pints he remarks to the gentlemen: "I hope you don't think I'm prying, but, I couldn't help but notice you seem pretty well off. How, may I ask did you come into such a fortune?"

the man replies:" Well, me and my friends over there found a genie in a beer bottle outside, and he granted us each a wish"

barman:"So, I take it you wished to be the richest man in the world"

The man puts one finger on his nose, and points at the barman with the other hand, as you would in a game of charades

barman:" Not a bad choice at all if i do say so"

The man nods politely, pays for the round and goes over to his friends

After a while, the second man goes up to the bar. This man is notable only insofar as he can barely be seen for all the beautiful woman draped around him, seemingly caressing every available inch of his body. He orders another round which the barman dutifully pulls. As he finishes off the last pint he can't help but comment: "I hope you don't mind me asking but, you are a friend of that wealthy gentlemen over there aren't you?"

"I am indeed" murmurs the man from beneath the pile of beauties.

"And you wished to be the most attractive man in the world"

"Pretty much, yeah"

"Excellent choice sir, enjoy your round" says the barman with the kind of knowing smile you tend to see on people vicariously appreciating the implied sexual exploits of a stranger. So he shuffles back to the table and him and his friends have their drinks. Not long later the third man approaches the bar and asks for another round. The barman cannot help but notice this man has an orange for a head. But he carries on pulling the pints in silence, until he cannot contain himself any longer and asks

"You found the genie too right?"

"That's correct" replies the man with an orange for a head.

"And what did you wish for, if you don't mind me asking?"

"I wished to have an orange for a head"

That may be true, but they're selling exactly what you see. They sell the unrealistic experience.

TV invites you to be a vicarious, passive participant in fiction. The viewer exchanges their time to escape into the experience. In the end, the TV show provides them nothing in return except a temporary cessation of reality. A TV commercial is a 30 second TV show. Like a TV show or movie, you are temporarily supplied with an artificial reality. In this fake reality, everyone is smiling and happy - the setting is perfect - and the food all looks fantastic. Commercials are escapism that do not reflect real life. Everyone knows that.

The only difference here is that in an ad, there is an actual real-world product out there. When a vendor invites you to go visit the local francise and buy a burger there is no implication that you'll be getting the same experience you had in the artificial reality of their ad. I don't expect Ronald McDonald to appear out of nowhere and do tricks. I don't expect hilarious shenanigans to bust my gut when I buy a soft drink. I don't expect a supermodel behind the counter at the car dealership. All they're doing is telling you that you can exchange a few real-life dollars for a real-life product. The artificial reality of the ad accomplishes nothing more except a temporary escape, and then after that you are simply 'aware' that the product exists if you want to buy it. I see nothing wrong with that.

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
TV shows and movies aren't directly selling a product.
Oh-ho-ho-yes they ARE! They're selling you a fake image of life that they want you as a viewer to try and live through vicariously. And you're spending something a lot more valuable than a few bucks. You're spending your TIME. In order to get you to watch their show, they portray a completely unrealistic existence that couldn't possibly happen in reality. They're just like the advertisers, except they're soaking you for time, imagination, and perception of reality instead of a couple bucks for a burger.


That may be true, but they're selling exactly what you see. They sell the unrealistic experience.

It's not like they show a commercial and it's all "drama, beautiful people, and awesome Michael Bay 3D Splosions!" and then during the show it's "yawnfest with C-list actors who just rolled out of bed and special effects by my brother-in-law."

Although I will admit that sometimes movie trailers might be somewhat misleading as to the movie's actual content, which I think would be a more apt analogy.

(Also, does anyone else immediately recall the scene from "Falling Down" when this topic is raised?)

TV shows and movies aren't directly selling a product.

Oh-ho-ho-yes they ARE! They're selling you a fake image of life that they want you as a viewer to try and live through vicariously. And you're spending something a lot more valuable than a few bucks. You're spending your TIME. In order to get you to watch their show, they portray a completely unrealistic existence that couldn't possibly happen in reality. They're just like the advertisers, except they're soaking you for time, imagination, and perception of reality instead of a couple bucks for a burger.

I hate the way that they try to trick us out of our money, but for the most part in the end we get the corporations we deserve.

I have never cottoned to this whole 'they trick us into buying stuff we don't want' crud. Baloney. The ad shows a hot, delicious burger. When we go to the restaurant we get a hot, delicious burger. There is no trick. It would be a trick if you went to the Burger King and got a cold, disgusting ball of mucus. But you get what the ad talked about, so I don't see what is to 'hate' here. You hate the fact that they are making you aware of their product? Oh nos!

I voted it's none of our business and stop living vicariously through celebrities.

In reply to this comment by eric3579:
Hey sorry I never replied to this. None of my friends made it this year (no one had the cash) . Did you go?

In reply to this comment by enoch:
In reply to this comment by eric3579:
enoch, I see you're rockin' a new bit of bling. Well done!
thanks man!
am i gonna see you at burning man this year?

sighs...no,for exactly the same reason.maja brokage.
was hopin you might go so i could live vicariously through you!

I was more impressed with his air-time than any implied sport or successful landings.

I have a personal obsession with flight and/or weightlessness, and if watching someone else do some pretty insane jumps allows me to live vicariously through your antics of weightlessness and defiance of gravity (It's the Law!), then more power to you.

I get the same feeling from watching astronauts, skateboarders on halfpipes, bmx jumps, motocross jumps, watching planes/helis take off/land, watching monster trucks leap over stacks of junked cars, watching parkour, gymnastics, etc.
And with such an extensive, readily available list from which to pull examples, I can't be the only one that feels this way.

It's all about the air-time man... the air-time...
The landing is just a crafty way of avoiding injury after the fun stuff is over.

>> ^JiggaJonson:
Corporations only have their stockholders in mind. The only reason they help consumers is to elevate their brand and vicariously gain approval of their stockholders.
Government run programs have no such incentive, their not out to make a profit. Gov programs are there for one purpose, to improve the lives of the citizens.


Yeah, you have a good point that many people can appreciate.

A lot of what people object to about healthcare reform, though, is just that they don't want more income redistribution. Keep in mind, 70% of healthcare costs are 'diseases of choice' (resulting from choice of lifestyle), and only 8% of the population lives a healthy lifestyle.

If we removed the 'you pay for mine and I won't pay for yours' out of the healthcare reform effort, it would have already passed by now (which would have been good for everybody).

Corporations only have their stockholders in mind. The only reason they help consumers is to elevate their brand and vicariously gain approval of their stockholders.

Government run programs have no such incentive, their not out to make a profit. Gov programs are there for one purpose, to improve the lives of the citizens. I support government run health care and disagree with Ron Paul on this issue.

I've been exhausted as of late so i dont feel like elaborating more.

or somebody so bored they live vicariously through a cat...

I was looking into doing the same thing years back, but programming became the thing that paid my bills, homeslice. I think you're a talented filmmaker, so I wish you the best, brother.

I'm not married, but I can speak from vicarious experience that most people want coverage (two cam coverage is typically enough, though if you can go up to three, you're doing better than most.).

And, don't listen to Dag, wide angle lenses are easy to shoot with (typically no focus issues), but they make people look like aliens (great for cinema, terrible for weddings). What bride wants to look like an alien, I ask you? You want to keep the viewpoint close to something the human eye understands or something longer... for 35mm that means a 50mm lens. What does that mean for a video zoom lens? I have no fucking clue, but you can easily just zoom in a bit tighter than the broad wide setting and do well, I'm sure.

Speed and cost. I actually know a thing or two about this, believe it or not. Let me just say that most professional wedding-ographers do well to create a streamlined process. Those that make decent money understand what they need to get (footage) and how to cut it quickly. They also offer packages where they charge more for various mediums of delivery (e.g, DVD, VCD, Web, photos, VHS, etc.). The more options, the higher the cost.

Also, a big thing they want is for you to disappear in the background and NOT be a part of their wedding, but when they see the final video they want to see that you were there amidst the crowds. Hence the longer lens comment above.

My heart goes out to you. I wish I could have a dog, but because of my living conditions (apartment) and my work hours, it seems cruel. I live vicariously through all my friends who have them and it is a great loss when one of them passes away. It is good to grieve though, shows that she was a member of the family and not just a "pet."

>> ^almightygrunt:
so what's his point? c.s. lewis is wrong therefore christianity is immoral? i don't follow.

He follows Lewis in agreement to a point then he makes a right hand turn at the conclusion. Lewis' point was that anybody claiming forgiveness for crimes done to another man must either be the devil or god. Hitchens says if jesus did exist he was a dick for this "vicarious redemption" because it takes the responsibility out of anybody's own actions including the wrongdoing and forgiveness by those that have been wronged.

Hitchens makes an excellent argument against this straw man Jesus he's set up.

As youmakekittymad pointed out, Hitchens cannot be blamed for the bible's inconsistencies, the basis for the so-called strawman is an alleged quote from Jesus himself..

That being said, Hitchens has his bit to share about many aspects of Jesus and Christianity, the one he uses more often is the idea of vicarious redemption. The Scapegoatish idea that Jesus "died for our sins" is not just foolish and naive, but wholly immoral and certainly irresponsible.
http://www.videosift.com/video/The-Tyranny-of-a-Callous-God-Christopher-Hitchens

EDIT: I linked to the wrong video, although the above one is even better.
http://www.videosift.com/video/Christopher-Hitchens-Christianity-Is-Totalitarian