>> ^Psychologic:

>> ^blankfist:
>> ^Psychologic:
>> ^blankfist:
I hope you have a great lawyer and deep pockets to sue the city or state.

If the free market won't handle it then I'm sure volunteerism will. =)

It's voluntaryism I think you were trying to write. No? Just trying to understand what you're getting at.

Actually it was a reference to individuals volunteering their time free of charge to help others, such lawyers working pro bono. As far as I can tell, volunteerism was the correct term.


Okay.

>> ^blankfist:

>> ^Psychologic:
>> ^blankfist:
I hope you have a great lawyer and deep pockets to sue the city or state.

If the free market won't handle it then I'm sure volunteerism will. =)

It's voluntaryism I think you were trying to write. No? Just trying to understand what you're getting at.


Actually it was a reference to individuals volunteering their time free of charge to help others, such lawyers working pro bono. As far as I can tell, volunteerism was the correct term.

You're welcome, you ol' sow libeler. I have no desire to see you banned. As much as I wish you'd be less hostile and insulting, I do enjoy arguing with you. I want to win arguments with you, not silence you.

Setting aside my fondness for beating the tar out of you, I think it would have been a pretty grave injustice for me to stay silent and let you get punished because of a misunderstanding, even if I truly hated your guts. I only saw one moral choice on the table, and that was to speak up.

Since you seem to want to at least sorta make this ideological, what do you think? Did I have a moral obligation to tell the truth, or was either choice a valid moral option?

In reply to this comment by blankfist:
Thanks, pig fucker. So easily someone with a particular gumption could've lobbied to have me banned, and by the looks of it it appears ol' Siftler isn't too interested in hearing testimony before sending people to the gallows. I'm ban number three inside of two weeks, right?

Anyhow, thanks for jumping in and giving another side to the story. Freedom works. People do help others even when not incentivized to do so.

In reply to this comment by NetRunner:
I can't believe I'm standing up for @blankfist, but he and I call each other pig fucker all the time. It's just one of those terms of endearment you come to use for each other when you've spent years arguing like an old married couple.

Thanks, pig fucker. So easily someone with a particular gumption could've lobbied to have me banned, and by the looks of it it appears ol' Siftler isn't too interested in hearing testimony before sending people to the gallows. I'm ban number three inside of two weeks, right?

Anyhow, thanks for jumping in and giving another side to the story. Freedom works. People do help others even when not incentivized to do so.

In reply to this comment by NetRunner:
I can't believe I'm standing up for @blankfist, but he and I call each other pig fucker all the time. It's just one of those terms of endearment you come to use for each other when you've spent years arguing like an old married couple.

In reply to this comment by dag:
There was a previous warning about personal attacks and name-calling in that very thread. In the interest of providing a community environment where people can participate without being called things like "pig fucker", I'm suspending you for two weeks. Thanks for your understanding.

In reply to this comment by blankfist:
>> ^Januari:

Oh no... you'd never do that Blankie... It's so much easier to just refer to everyone who disagrees with you as 'idiots' and then lecture to everyone about courtesy and the merits of 'making an argument'... Hypocrites preach civility when it suits them... and call people idiots when it doesn't...


I call statists idiots. I didn't say @Januari is an idiot, or @bareboards2 is an emotional mess, or @smooman is a retard, @bmacs27 is moron and so on. I've been guilty of ad hom on here many times, but this isn't one of those cases, and I've tried to be careful not to do it. So please call me out for it.

And certainly when I'm in the majority on here (which isn't often), I try not to team up and bully people. Unless it's @NetRunner. I do have a perverse fascination with tormenting that pig fucker.

>> ^spoco2:

>> ^bareboards2:
Is there something wrong with trying to comfort one's self when you think you are going to die?
To me, this is the ONLY good thing that religion has to offer -- personal comfort. Just about everything else about religion bugs me -- but this? This is what religion was originally invented for. In my opinion.

>> ^spoco2:
Shit, could someone just knock out the woman who kept saying 'Heavenly father, jesus,jesus, jesus'... 'Thankyou Jesus'. Right there is one of the fricken reasons why blind religion is so damn dangerous. It breeds a reliance on this 'god' fellow, it makes you abscond from having belief in yourself, from being able to handle things yourself, but rather you sit and wait for your damn 'heavenly father' to save you.

Bravo to the guys who took leadership and told people to stay calm and kept everyone safe, that was taking things into your own hands and helping others. A FAR more 'christian' thing to do than just weep to your lord. Bravo, bravo.


Yeah, but what it ends up doing in a 'crisis' situation like this is turns the person into a worthless lump who is more likely to die and/or get other people killed because they have no ability to pull themselves together and help the situation.
The guys in this video who helped everyone out made a difference to all of these people. That woman, if left to her own devices may have just stood or sat somewhere wailing at her god until she was killed by the tornado.
If religion can make you unafraid of death in such a way that you are able to remove a lot of fear in a situation like this and help yourself and others, then it could be helpful, but when it makes you only capable of awaiting your 'fate', then there's a problem.


and you think this somehow has more to do with her religion than panic and anxiety?

>> ^spoco2:

>> ^smooman:
>> ^spoco2:
Shit, could someone just knock out the woman who kept saying 'Heavenly father, jesus,jesus, jesus'... 'Thankyou Jesus'. Right there is one of the fricken reasons why blind religion is so damn dangerous. It breeds a reliance on this 'god' fellow, it makes you abscond from having belief in yourself, from being able to handle things yourself, but rather you sit and wait for your damn 'heavenly father' to save you.

Bravo to the guys who took leadership and told people to stay calm and kept everyone safe, that was taking things into your own hands and helping others. A FAR more 'christian' thing to do than just weep to your lord. Bravo, bravo.

ya what was that woman thinking crying out to her personal lord in a moment of unspeakable vulnerability, fear, and traumatic angst?! I mean, her crying for help to the only being she perceives could help her in such a helpless event just paints her as the walking time bomb she really is!
we get it spoco, you hate religious people. they are beneath you. now fuck off

I know that you're religious, I know that you have a hard time not insulting anyone who disagrees with you (your commenting history shows it to be true), but if you can't see why her reaction to a crisis is a far worse reaction than those who actively helped, then we have nothing to talk about.


so lets, in your words, knock her out? keep trollin

I disagree with your cause and effect conclusion, my friend.

You don't think that some atheists can be just as ineffective in a crisis?

I do understand your point, but the guys who moved to action could be just as fervent Christians. You don't know.

You know I agree with you about religion, right? I think many bad things have been done in its name. However, it has been with humans since we gained consciousness. It serves a purpose, or we wouldn't have it, it would have killed us off by now.

It is as all things are in life -- imperfect.



In reply to this comment by spoco2:
>> ^bareboards2:

Is there something wrong with trying to comfort one's self when you think you are going to die?
To me, this is the ONLY good thing that religion has to offer -- personal comfort. Just about everything else about religion bugs me -- but this? This is what religion was originally invented for. In my opinion.

>> ^spoco2:
Shit, could someone just knock out the woman who kept saying 'Heavenly father, jesus,jesus, jesus'... 'Thankyou Jesus'. Right there is one of the fricken reasons why blind religion is so damn dangerous. It breeds a reliance on this 'god' fellow, it makes you abscond from having belief in yourself, from being able to handle things yourself, but rather you sit and wait for your damn 'heavenly father' to save you.

Bravo to the guys who took leadership and told people to stay calm and kept everyone safe, that was taking things into your own hands and helping others. A FAR more 'christian' thing to do than just weep to your lord. Bravo, bravo.



Yeah, but what it ends up doing in a 'crisis' situation like this is turns the person into a worthless lump who is more likely to die and/or get other people killed because they have no ability to pull themselves together and help the situation.

The guys in this video who helped everyone out made a difference to all of these people. That woman, if left to her own devices may have just stood or sat somewhere wailing at her god until she was killed by the tornado.

If religion can make you unafraid of death in such a way that you are able to remove a lot of fear in a situation like this and help yourself and others, then it could be helpful, but when it makes you only capable of awaiting your 'fate', then there's a problem.

>> ^smooman:

>> ^spoco2:
Shit, could someone just knock out the woman who kept saying 'Heavenly father, jesus,jesus, jesus'... 'Thankyou Jesus'. Right there is one of the fricken reasons why blind religion is so damn dangerous. It breeds a reliance on this 'god' fellow, it makes you abscond from having belief in yourself, from being able to handle things yourself, but rather you sit and wait for your damn 'heavenly father' to save you.

Bravo to the guys who took leadership and told people to stay calm and kept everyone safe, that was taking things into your own hands and helping others. A FAR more 'christian' thing to do than just weep to your lord. Bravo, bravo.

ya what was that woman thinking crying out to her personal lord in a moment of unspeakable vulnerability, fear, and traumatic angst?! I mean, her crying for help to the only being she perceives could help her in such a helpless event just paints her as the walking time bomb she really is!
we get it spoco, you hate religious people. they are beneath you. now fuck off


I know that you're religious, I know that you have a hard time not insulting anyone who disagrees with you (your commenting history shows it to be true), but if you can't see why her reaction to a crisis is a far worse reaction than those who actively helped, then we have nothing to talk about.

>> ^spoco2:

Shit, could someone just knock out the woman who kept saying 'Heavenly father, jesus,jesus, jesus'... 'Thankyou Jesus'. Right there is one of the fricken reasons why blind religion is so damn dangerous. It breeds a reliance on this 'god' fellow, it makes you abscond from having belief in yourself, from being able to handle things yourself, but rather you sit and wait for your damn 'heavenly father' to save you.

Bravo to the guys who took leadership and told people to stay calm and kept everyone safe, that was taking things into your own hands and helping others. A FAR more 'christian' thing to do than just weep to your lord. Bravo, bravo.


ya what was that woman thinking crying out to her personal lord in a moment of unspeakable vulnerability, fear, and traumatic angst?! I mean, her crying for help to the only being she perceives could help her in such a helpless event just paints her as the walking time bomb she really is!

we get it spoco, you hate religious people. they are beneath you. now fuck off

>> ^bareboards2:

Is there something wrong with trying to comfort one's self when you think you are going to die?
To me, this is the ONLY good thing that religion has to offer -- personal comfort. Just about everything else about religion bugs me -- but this? This is what religion was originally invented for. In my opinion.

>> ^spoco2:
Shit, could someone just knock out the woman who kept saying 'Heavenly father, jesus,jesus, jesus'... 'Thankyou Jesus'. Right there is one of the fricken reasons why blind religion is so damn dangerous. It breeds a reliance on this 'god' fellow, it makes you abscond from having belief in yourself, from being able to handle things yourself, but rather you sit and wait for your damn 'heavenly father' to save you.

Bravo to the guys who took leadership and told people to stay calm and kept everyone safe, that was taking things into your own hands and helping others. A FAR more 'christian' thing to do than just weep to your lord. Bravo, bravo.



Yeah, but what it ends up doing in a 'crisis' situation like this is turns the person into a worthless lump who is more likely to die and/or get other people killed because they have no ability to pull themselves together and help the situation.

The guys in this video who helped everyone out made a difference to all of these people. That woman, if left to her own devices may have just stood or sat somewhere wailing at her god until she was killed by the tornado.

If religion can make you unafraid of death in such a way that you are able to remove a lot of fear in a situation like this and help yourself and others, then it could be helpful, but when it makes you only capable of awaiting your 'fate', then there's a problem.

Is there something wrong with trying to comfort one's self when you think you are going to die?

To me, this is the ONLY good thing that religion has to offer -- personal comfort. Just about everything else about religion bugs me -- but this? This is what religion was originally invented for. In my opinion.


>> ^spoco2:

Shit, could someone just knock out the woman who kept saying 'Heavenly father, jesus,jesus, jesus'... 'Thankyou Jesus'. Right there is one of the fricken reasons why blind religion is so damn dangerous. It breeds a reliance on this 'god' fellow, it makes you abscond from having belief in yourself, from being able to handle things yourself, but rather you sit and wait for your damn 'heavenly father' to save you.

Bravo to the guys who took leadership and told people to stay calm and kept everyone safe, that was taking things into your own hands and helping others. A FAR more 'christian' thing to do than just weep to your lord. Bravo, bravo.

Shit, could someone just knock out the woman who kept saying 'Heavenly father, jesus,jesus, jesus'... 'Thankyou Jesus'. Right there is one of the fricken reasons why blind religion is so damn dangerous. It breeds a reliance on this 'god' fellow, it makes you abscond from having belief in yourself, from being able to handle things yourself, but rather you sit and wait for your damn 'heavenly father' to save you.


Bravo to the guys who took leadership and told people to stay calm and kept everyone safe, that was taking things into your own hands and helping others. A FAR more 'christian' thing to do than just weep to your lord. Bravo, bravo.

In scenerio one, it's important to remember that Gods standard is perfection. What we consider good is not what God considers good. In fact, the only human to ever live up to that standard was Jesus. This is what the bible says:

John 3:18

"He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

It is because Christ is the only provision we have to escape the judgement. Without Christ, we have no provision and must pay the penalty for our sins.

As for the other matter, this is what the bible says about it:

Romans 2:6-16

God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.

12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ.

We are not responsible for knowledge we have never been given. But everyone who hears the truth and rejects it is guilty already.



>> ^Drax:
This question is half curiosity...
Going by what you just wrote, and that God is just.. I'm curious what your take on this is -
What if someone lives a generally good life, is a good person, helps others, etc.. basicaly never hurts anyone, but also never chooses to believe in God?
With that question in mind, what happens to someone who is mean to others, etc.. but never once is exposed to christianity, never learns of it (think, an isolated colony on an island)?
How do you think God handles either of those scenarios?

This question is half curiosity...

Going by what you just wrote, and that God is just.. I'm curious what your take on this is -

What if someone lives a generally good life, is a good person, helps others, etc.. basicaly never hurts anyone, but also never chooses to believe in God?

With that question in mind, what happens to someone who is mean to others, etc.. but never once is exposed to christianity, never learns of it (think, an isolated colony on an island)?

How do you think God handles either of those scenarios?

Was really pleased to see this was upvoted 4 times just while i watched it...

Very happy to do so as well.

Impressive gentleman... defiantly agree. I hope the things he does and says cause a deep and constant pain every cursed day Fred Phelps has left on this planet... and if he helps others while doing that... total bonus!