>> ^Boise_Lib:

>> ^criticalthud:
they should have maced her. she was OUT OF CONTROL.
hmmm... anyone else looking at airline tickets to new york?

We don't know they didn't.


ha! totally. some rodney king treatment was in order fo sho!

man... so loving what is happening there right now. whoa.
the beginning is near...

>> ^Trancecoach:

seems like Anonymous is staging a convenient appropriation of an existing movement...


We'll have to hope they're showing support instead. You can't really appropriate the existing movement unless you're in a place of power. Sadly the media could run with this and say that the Occupiers of Wallstreet are just like those evil hackers that pose a threat to our society. That could be the only real issue I see with Anonymous picking this horse.

I should point out that the most recent unrest in cities around the UK weren't protests, it was rioting. It wasn't about making a political point, it started as retribution for a specific police killing and while it was certainly fueled by a feeling of injustice and malcontent I certainly don't want to be associated with those criminals in any way.

As for the protest @ wallstreet. I certainly hope it spreads and grows larger. The media might not be reporting on it, but information is spread easily by the people. Talk about it on your twitter/facebook and the message will get out.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

Exactly. He's shorting the market and hoping to influence it through this. He's getting good bang for his buck due to the virality of this video too.

Still, when the stock market crashes - I think ooohh, Wallstreet is having a clearance sale! Warren Buffet's axiom holds true: Be afraid when people are greedy. Be greedy when people are afraid.

(not that I have a single red cent directly invested in the stock market, just saying)

>> ^EMPIRE:

oh... so the crash is an opportunity for assholes like this to make a buck. He actually said he dreams of another recession. WHAT a HUGE fucking piece of shit. It's horrible people like this asshole who created this mess.

>> ^newtboy:

I completely agree, our economic crisis was caused by mismanagement and deregulation of the banking system/wallstreet, which is now made worse by the European crisis. Our debt crisis is a decades old issue that's suddenly in the forefront, but is also a huge and looming problem.

That there is pretty much what I meant in my original quip, and subsequent responses.

>> ^newtboy:
The European debt situation is different, and seems to be a major cause of their current economic crisis, so is the whole credit default swap thing to a lesser extent, but they're far more removed from it.

Debt is a bigger problem in Europe because they have sovereign debt without having a sovereign currency, and don't have an established EU-wide fiscal policy.

In the US, we have control of our own currency, and have a federal fiscal policy, so a debt crisis for us would at worst lead to inflation, not to default.

Not to mention, there are two halves of a balanced budget, spending and revenue. One way to balance a budget is by cutting back on your social safety net, another way is to raise taxes. There's no reason to focus primarily or solely on cuts, if your overall goal is fiscal balance.

More broadly, I think paid maternity leave is a pretty good idea, and if we're really the rich and powerful country we claim to be, then we can afford the taxes to pay for it. If we can't afford it, then we need to think of ourselves as an impoverished 3rd world nation who aspires to one day be able to provide such a valuable benefit to our citizens. If we're simply unwilling to pay for it, then we're less humane than our European friends across the pond.

OK, let me start by saying I was never incensed, irked, consternated, angered, or otherwise bothered. I always think it's funny to hear the assumptions people make about me, they are invariably wrong, I'm a wierdo and rarely take the path expected. I take joy in setting the record straight in the hopes of presenting a different point of view for consideration, I see no reason for revenge or anger over a misunderstanding and usually not schadenfreude either.
I didn't see it as consession to my arguement, I saw it as coming to agreement that we really meant the same thing. I guess to some people that might be the same thing, it's not to me.
The only apology needed is to Umption, you made an ass out of him. I'm not looking for one myself, I don't know why I might be due one except for the blankfist thing. You misunderstood me again.
It depends on which current financial crisis you mean. I completely agree, our economic crisis was caused by mismanagement and deregulation of the banking system/wallstreet, which is now made worse by the European crisis. Our debt crisis is a decades old issue that's suddenly in the forefront, but is also a huge and looming problem. The European debt situation is different, and seems to be a major cause of their current economic crisis, so is the whole credit default swap thing to a lesser extent, but they're far more removed from it.
The debt discussion stems from the discussion of the european crash, which I believe was caused mostly by the crushing debt of many union members, caused in large part by over spending on social programs like paid maternity (along with many others), and the worsening of that debt to the point their partners could no longer ignore it caused by the global market declines. It came to a head when Greece couldn't borrow more money to pay for the services they refused to curtail. I disagree with the contention that Spain and Ireland were in "good" shape simply because they were not collapsing yet. Greece has been spending like a teenager with daddy's credit card for far too long (probably decades), so long that it's people (and corperations most likely, don't misunderstnad) believe they are entitled to all their handouts because many have never known different, and they flatly refused to raise taxes to pay for those services and entitlements, forget paying their debts. Let's be clear, they are not us, they were even worse about entitlement programs and ignoring debt. That does not mean we should not use them as a cautionary tale of what to avoid, we don't want to be where they are now, and it's where we are heading.
Here in the USA, I think our debt stems from overspending (on defense and entitlement programs, stupid wastes, and needed services) AND under taxing. I'm not sure about your health care point, we haven't really paid for it yet, so it hasn't really effected the debt. Maybe I'm missing your point.
I disagree with your final point, that our debt is a made up problem. I also disagree with the contention that we must erase the debt completely and instantly, damn the consequences. Sadly, the big 'debt debate' that once again tarnished our reputation worldwide (and continues to) is really not about paying down our debt. As far as I know, no one seriously even floated a ballanced budget ammendment, forget actually paying down the debt. All the wrangling is over a small percentage of the insane increase they expect in the national debt over 10 years (I think I recall the number 24trillion). I fear the debt will crush us, and stagnate our economy if not dealt with quickly, but it must be done with reason and thoughfulness, not ignored OR myopicly focused on.>> ^NetRunner:
@newtboy the part that reminds me of blankfist is that you seem to be incensed at my terrible crime of misunderstanding an ambiguous statement, and then thinking I owe you something (a retraction, an apology, or a concession to your argument) because of that.
Let's wind this train of thought back a bit. My contention is that the present economic calamity started with a financial crisis, driven by mortgage-backed securities.
I didn't mention debt, you did.
I agree that debt plays a role in the unfolding of this crisis, especially in Europe, but it's not a cause of the crisis. Any kind of economic crisis throws a government's budget into deficit (or pushes it further into), because tax revenue goes down when GDP and employment go down, while at the same time, more people wind up needing to rely on the social safety net as they loose their jobs (or just get their hours or pay cut). Greece and Italy were in bad shape before the crisis, and got much worse. But Spain and Ireland were in good fiscal shape before the crisis, and wound up deep in debt as a consequence of the crisis.
I also disagree with your contention that the debts are caused by "people taking maternity leave along with other social programs to a ridiculous extent." I'm not intimately familiar with the specific fiscal details of the European countries, but basically the way government budgets work is that you need to make sure you have tax revenues that are higher than spending in normal times.
Here in the US, our debt issues are primarily a result of cutting taxes, overspending on defense, and a refusal to adopt a single-payer health care system for everyone.
But for the most part, debt is a made-up problem in the US. It's not that it's not a problem at all, it's just that it's not something we need to solve in 2011, it's something we need to solve by 2030 or so. It's important, but not urgent.

Do any of you realize yet that deregulating Wallstreet further will completely destroy us? Really? Anyone seen "Inside Job" yet?

Don't you guys wish we could do this to every rich fuck on wallstreet?

Boy, Daniel Sparks is a fucking snake.

Sparks: "I don't recall, selling hundreds of millions of that deal"
Levin: "July 1, 2007; [your email] tells the sales force the top priority is Timberwolf. Your top priority to sell is that shitty deal"
Sparks: "My comment was that I didn't recall the sales."

This is what you get when you deregulate Wallstreet. It's like taking the cage away from a pile of snakes and then acting surprised when you get bit.

And then the snake says: "People trusted me when I said I wasn't a snake. I'm not responsible for them getting bitten...they should know not to trust a snake. Don't put me back in the cage for that."

I don't think Obama was being completely dishonest when he was talking about all the changes he was going to make, but didn't. I think he hit the wall where idealism meets reality. As a campaigner its easy to talk about the things you want, and how things should be, but once its time to take action suddenly there's the burden of responsibility, real consequences to be had for your actions and a million voices trying to convince you which direction has the least negative consequences. I'm not trying to let Obama off the hook, I think he's treaded the status quo line to closely. Do little to upset wallstreet or they'll throw a tantrum and send the economy into ruins, and you can't upset the industrial/military complex too much because they're so embedded in our society its removal would cause major problems. My problem with Obama is he's playing their game too much, maybe in our political world he doesn't have much of a realistic choice, he needs to turn the screws on them.

I think we have two big problems in this country:
1. The people with the most power have the least reason to want change. Whatever is going on has been working out pretty well for them, and its pretty hard to work towards something that might not be in your own immediate self interest.
2. The country as a whole has to be able to agree on a direction and actually be able to follow through. There is no reality but that which we create, and for anything to work the majority. Especially the major players, they more than anyone need to buy into that reality, right now I think most of them are just exploiting it. So basically we need a reality that can withstand human nature without trampling on it.

Just to throw in my two cents.

Let me preface this by saying I love Jon Stewart and the daily show, but I felt this was just a crucifixion. Jon even started the show by showing how much he prepared for this (in a comedic fashion), yet if you saw how Cramer went on shows previously to talk about the interview, that he was nervous as he didn't know what to expect. (Martha Stewart, etc)

I think my biggest problem was that he pulled out "clips" of Cramer saying this or that, and then went on to just basically bury the poor guy about it. He deserved it in a sense, but I doubt Cramer is a billionaire that needs to be pounded like he was. Jon's biggest beef is with how the market "orchestrates" things, and somehow put that gigantic blame on Cramer, or that at least he should expose that. All Cramer could do was agree with him -- everyone is in bed with one another in terms of financial dealings, which I'm sure most of us understand to some extent. He even pointed out that from '99 to '07 they were pulling in 30% gains year over year. Those were great years. Yet not realistic. That wasn't Cramer's fault or even Wallstreet. It's easy to have hindsight after the fact, which is the small point that Cramer meekly tried to make, which is true. The market is now correcting itself, and it sucks. All those gains you made, have to go away now, because they weren't "real".

I guess it's interesting that he nailed some guy that is involved in the financial industry, but come on, nail someone who's worth nailing. I guess it's a start though -- I hope he continues pushing the financial industry. Perhaps they'll send someone in who can actually debate properly

Wow, that went dead->fixed really quick.

It is fantastic and revealing interview. The unedited version gives a more fair balanced view as well. I hope that Cramer can stay on in his work in some capacity. He seems to want to make better about the BS that has been going on behind closed wallstreets.

Canada, watch full interview here:

Part One
Part Two
Part Three

*market - Fish market? Super market? A little vague...
*wallstreet - I believe VS is a Global website so I wouldn't want a US centric name for it.
*wealth - Also a little vague and not really applicable. Will cover more then just wealth creation.
*trade - Ehh not really as it will cover more then just trade
*depression09 - Am hoping this will be a long term channel.

I don't want to really Admin this. I admin Obscure. Poorly at best. I actually wanted it to be a Admin level channel, so every can contribute and everyone can axe vids.

How about *market? *wallstreet? *wealth? *trade? *depression09?

Maybe take a page from Limbaugh and go with *waronprosperity, or Stewart's *clusterfucktothepoorhouse.