I got scared in System Shock 2, Alone in the Dark, DOOM 3, etc.

Such a pity that the Bioshock series is such a deevolution from System Shock 1&2. The nannies still freak me out...

"Whoooo stole my BABY?!?!?"

SS2 gave me more genuing "mouse throwing" moments ("YIKES" /mouse hits the end of it's cord before hitting the window.. again...) than any other game... =)

The premise for this looks awesome though, but it'll be the same consolised FPS with a few RPG components (read: later on you get to differentiate a plasmid or two). I think the bright contrast to the previous games murky suboceanic setting is a nice counterpoint.

Fair enough. I've always been one to love a great experience when it comes to gaming (Interstate '76, The Longest Journey, Deux Ex), but the faults that accompanied Bioshock, I guess prevented me from really experiencing that ... experience. Perhaps I'll try it again one day to see if I can overlook those fun-stopping elements.

There have been plenty of other games that offered a similarly excellent experience to the one you describe, that all had faults of their own. Somehow I was able to overlook those. Guess I'm not sure what it is about Bioshock that I despised so much as to disallow that.
>> ^mentality:
The gameplay was nothing exceptional, but definitely better than games like Fallout 3. And I totally understand when things like technical issues or how the gameplay "feels" can ruin a game. Also I agree that there is a lot of repetitiveness. The repetitiveness, however, stems from the limited variety of enemies that you fought - and not from repetitive level design as in the first Halo game.
Like I said, I never considered the gunplay to be a strength of Bioshock, and those negative aspects that you mentioned never really bothered me. For me, the setting was always the real star of the show. From lush underwater rainforests, to the opulent decadence of the operahouse, to the run down squalor of the underwater slums, no one has ever put together such a spectacular cast of locales with such believable fidelity. And each locale has its own story to tell - told through flashbacks and journals - of how it was twisted into the macabre and fallen vision that you see before you. Throwing you in alone into this creepy and hostile world, run by a powerful and malevolent madman, created a sense of danger and desperation evoked by great survival horror games like System Shock 2.
For me, Bioshock was one of the few games that managed to transcend the limitations of gaming and provided an interactive experience.

>> ^ForgedReality:
Sorry, I can't agree. What was it that you enjoyed most about the gameplay? Or was it just the setting?
For me, I dunno. Nothing really ever jumped out at me that made me want to play it. It felt kind of "meh." I just couldn't get as into it as some people apparently could. I tried, but certain things really bothered me, like the annoyingly typical Unreal Engine graphics (AA issues, "everything is shiny" syndrome, etc), incredibly weak feeling weapons that seemed like they should have had a lot more impact on your enemies, the repetitiveness of the single player experience...
I'll admit, at first, the visuals and the atmosphere were kind of cool, but that all quickly melted away for me because it just didn't feel all that fun. I think a lot of the longevity it had was due to impractical things like collecting tapes and stuff for background information--the kind of thing that had no bearing on the actual game itself.

The gameplay was nothing exceptional, but definitely better than games like Fallout 3. And I totally understand when things like technical issues or how the gameplay "feels" can ruin a game. Also I agree that there is a lot of repetitiveness. The repetitiveness, however, stems from the limited variety of enemies that you fought - and not from repetitive level design as in the first Halo game.

Like I said, I never considered the gunplay to be a strength of Bioshock, and those negative aspects that you mentioned never really bothered me. For me, the setting was always the real star of the show. From lush underwater rainforests, to the opulent decadence of the operahouse, to the run down squalor of the underwater slums, no one has ever put together such a spectacular cast of locales with such believable fidelity. And each locale has its own story to tell - told through flashbacks and journals - of how it was twisted into the macabre and fallen vision that you see before you. Throwing you in alone into this creepy and hostile world, run by a powerful and malevolent madman, created a sense of danger and desperation evoked by great survival horror games like System Shock 2.

For me, Bioshock was one of the few games that managed to transcend the limitations of gaming and provided an interactive experience.

>> ^mentality:

>> ^ForgedReality:
WOW GREAT GAMEPLAY.. oh wait.
Anyway, both Bioshock games were average at best, and in my eyes, rather mediocre. Incredibly overrated, and not really all that fun. The only thing they had going for them was the somewhat original setting, but when you boil it down, it's really just a glorified shooter with less-than-stellar gameplay running on a shitty engine.
I don't expect this one will do much in the way of improvement. We'll see though, I guess.

I felt that the setting and the atmosphere that they created was amazing. The uniqueness, consistency, and execution of their vision makes it easily one of the best single player FPS games ever.
Personally, I'd probably rank it above Half-Life 1+2 and Deus Ex (I prefer Bioshock's setting more), and alongside Portal and System Shock 2 as the best singleplayer FPS experiences that I've ever played.


Sorry, I can't agree. What was it that you enjoyed most about the gameplay? Or was it just the setting?

For me, I dunno. Nothing really ever jumped out at me that made me want to play it. It felt kind of "meh." I just couldn't get as into it as some people apparently could. I tried, but certain things really bothered me, like the annoyingly typical Unreal Engine graphics (AA issues, "everything is shiny" syndrome, etc), incredibly weak feeling weapons that seemed like they should have had a lot more impact on your enemies, the repetitiveness of the single player experience...

I'll admit, at first, the visuals and the atmosphere were kind of cool, but that all quickly melted away for me because it just didn't feel all that fun. I think a lot of the longevity it had was due to impractical things like collecting tapes and stuff for background information--the kind of thing that had no bearing on the actual game itself.

>> ^ForgedReality:

WOW GREAT GAMEPLAY.. oh wait.
Anyway, both Bioshock games were average at best, and in my eyes, rather mediocre. Incredibly overrated, and not really all that fun. The only thing they had going for them was the somewhat original setting, but when you boil it down, it's really just a glorified shooter with less-than-stellar gameplay running on a shitty engine.
I don't expect this one will do much in the way of improvement. We'll see though, I guess.


I felt that the setting and the atmosphere that they created was amazing. The uniqueness, consistency, and execution of their vision makes it easily one of the best single player FPS games ever.

Personally, I'd probably rank it above Half-Life 1+2 and Deus Ex (I prefer Bioshock's setting more), and alongside Portal and System Shock 2 as the best singleplayer FPS experiences that I've ever played.

>> ^moodonia:
Heh, I'm almost finished "System Shock 2", released in 1999, and easily one of the best games I ever played, then its on to BioShock 1.
So I'll be enjoying Bioshock 3 sometime in 2026


Have you gotten to the point where a shambling mess creeps up behind and scares the living shit out of you?

Oh wait, that happens the WHOLE damn game. What gets me, is they did it all without using the Monster Closets™ Doom3 devolved into.

Heh, I'm almost finished "System Shock 2", released in 1999, and easily one of the best games I ever played, then its on to BioShock 1.

So I'll be enjoying Bioshock 3 sometime in 2026

>> ^RedSky:
Do you think it's still worth playing? I somehow managed to avoid ever playing System Shock 1/2. Don't mind if it's graphically aged but I heard that it has a few too many similarities to Bioshock? Still worth going back to?


Bioshock and System Shock 2 are both by Ken Levine, and Bioshock's design is a simplified, console friendly version of System Shock 2. A lot of the same elements are present (Audio logs, hacking, different ammo, augments, powers), but SS2 also has things like RPG character stats (str, agi, end), inventory management, weapon customization, etc.

The main difference between the two games are the settings. SS2 is more of a deep space survival horror, like Dead Space. The atmosphere was excellent for its time, and it's one of the scariest I've ever played. If you don't let the poor graphics (very low poly models, even for 1999) distract you from the immersion, or let things like degrading weapons and the difficutly frustrate you, then its definitely worth playing.

This site has a nice faq on technical issues, and also includes links to the Rebirth high poly mod and the SHTUP high res texture mod.

Do you think it's still worth playing? I somehow managed to avoid ever playing System Shock 1/2. Don't mind if it's graphically aged but I heard that it has a few too many similarities to Bioshock? Still worth going back to?
>> ^mentality:

For me, Deus Ex is a good game, but overrated. I much preferred System Shock (and Bioshock)'s excellent atmosphere in their take of the FPS RPG. System Shock is the true genre definer, whereas Deus Ex added some shallow dialogue and superficial plot choices (and a last minute selection of one of 3 endings) to the mix.

>> ^Farhad2000:

The Dues Ex IP has immense potential to be genre defining. If you haven't played the original you missed out on one of the most adult videogames developed ever.
However, my fear is that it's going to be essentially Bioshock in the future which has become a sort of standard for the industry. Not to mention this looks like its a very linear narrative already.


For me, Deus Ex is a good game, but overrated. I much preferred System Shock (and Bioshock)'s excellent atmosphere in their take of the FPS RPG. System Shock is the true genre definer, whereas Deus Ex added some shallow dialogue and superficial plot choices (and a last minute selection of one of 3 endings) to the mix.

I barely made it through Bioshock one. The story could not maintain the relationship between plot and waves and waves of bad guys and cheesy puzzles. The only thing that kept me going was that this was the "spiritual successor" to System Shock, of which I never played. I had to see it through to at least experience what I could. Now, some oddball story after the closure of the first tiresome run through? Yeah...not gonna bother.

>> ^spoco2:
Nope, no sarcasm at all... I hate online play. Although, with friends, on a LAN, that is fun, and as such, I can see that you could eventually get to that point on general online play... I guess.
I don't have the time, patience, or inclination to build up the teams/organize times to play together etc. only to end up playing a fast twitch game where this sort of bullshit taunting goes on.
I enjoy single player games with stories, I enjoy playing through crafted experiences like Bioshock, HL2 and it's sequels, Arkham Asylum etc. Or, just fun puzzle games like World of Goo. Westy, you either have an unrealistically high bar for single player games, or just don't play good ones. Personally... I'd rather AI that's trying to fit into the world, rather than playing a WW2 game and have the enemy tea bag me, or yelling 'die fags'... that breaks me out of the immersion far more than a bit of dodgy AI.
That's where my enjoyment comes from I'm afraid... I just don't find enjoyment in online gaming.
I can SEE the attraction, especially in games like Eve Online etc. where it's like living in a futuristic world... but really, that's a time investment of a few orders of magnitude higher than I can give to anything that's not productive.



I enjoy both multilayer and single player , Its just that the the story telling in single player games is UTTER SHIT . compare the stories and emotoinal impact in games to a good film or book its just depressing. also the fact that the game play in single player games is often so predictable its just annoying. I really enjoy single player games as a peace of art of a mideum thats still in its black and white without sound stage.

Evan coop instantly makes any single player game infinitely better. the technology is not really there to deliver engrossing single player games of a high sophistication , Maby as a games Designer things stick out to me more than they do other people but I can still recognize fantastic single player games but Evan the really good ones the plot is that of a TV BMovi


Here is a list of some single player games that were really good.
Half life 1 , operation flash point , shadow of the colossus. The Penumbra Series , max Payne 1 and 2. portal ,
System Shock 2, myst series.

I always find it Amusing that still Half life 1 is more advanced and natural in the way it tells its story than modern FPS games. Mirrors edge has really nice environments and some well designed levels (in terms of game play) but the story is badly written and the cut scenes are annoying.

[redacted]

Good list.
Mine looks like this:

Doom
Quake
Morrowind
System Shock 2
Half Life
Baldur's Gate
Diablo II
Neverwinter Nights 2
Deus Ex
Vampire Bloodlines: Masqurade

Unreal Tournament 2004 was amazing also. And I'd like to throw in C&C or the whole Civ franchise .. Age of Empires II .. But my current RTS addiction is Anno 1404 and it buries them all.