It totally agree, @eric3579. Who can be trusted? It's harder to know every day.

My take....
Jones is right about the science, false negatives imply you've never been exposed when you have been, so people believe they cannot transmit the virus when they may in fact be infectious, which can lead to reckless nondistancing behavior and infections because they assume they're "safe"... also even a good (not false) positive antibody test does not mean they have meaningful immunity nor does it mean they aren't infectious as this woman claims. It only means you've developed some detectable antibodies to the virus. Period. Both misconceptions are big concerns. "Which is bigger?" seems like a silly fight.

The problem is, no matter what the test says, people think it means they're safe to be around. A negative test...."I never had it so I can't spread it, gimme a kiss"...a positive test..."I had it but beat it so I'm now immune and can't spread it, gimme a kiss". Neither is correct.

I had the chicken pox twice. If a chicken pox antibody test existed, I would have tested positive after the first round and assumed I couldn't get it or transmit it afterwards, but that would have been wrong even though the results weren't a false positive. Instead, because people suck, my parents and teachers just assumed I was "safe" and sent me to school sick and may have caused an outbreak.

Both of her claims here rely on most people completely misunderstanding what the results really mean, and people completely ignoring the possibility of false results. Sadly that's proper to assume.

Interesting how she puts it, she says Jones wasn't asked to fudge any data, just maybe present it in a way that made Florida's public covid numbers look better in the run up to the election....or another way to say that is she was asked to fudge the data....if I recall she claimed she was instructed to hide large numbers of cases in categories not included in the public presentations with the intent to create a false perception of a major downturn in cases under the "open up and unmask" plan.

Wasn't the "private data" she's accused of handing to the press the unadulterated anonymous covid numbers....not really private as it's public data collected by the government for public health reasons... and not personal data as she implied. That's what I recall the charge being....maybe there's more.

The rest is unverifiable and /or personal tabloid stuff....like did they point the gun at her kids or just menace them with the guns, did she get pregnant with her student, etc. Not germane to her claims about Florida's verified misrepresentations, and inappropriate attacks against the messenger instead of the message, imo. Distasteful to me, but besides the point.

Here's a measles virus
https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/stltoday.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/c/2c/c2c40270-a385-51ca-9e81-e4e7590c0c29/5ab25d6beef47.im
age.jpg

Here's a covid 19 virus
https://static.wixstatic.com/media/b91cef_2cd215ed15f544c4ae7a3a287e8baf1c~mv2.png/v1/fit/w_740%2Ch_296%2Cal_c/file.png

Here's a common flu virus
https://hms.harvard.edu/sites/default/files/assets/News/2015/images/Sep/flu%20micrograph.jpg

---------------
We have a lot
a WHOLE LOT< < < < < < < < < < < < < of experience fighting viruses that are corona types. We KNOW how to make good vaccines for coronaviruses.
---------------

And you're just wrong about being forced to be vaccinated

"It is within the police power of a State to enact a compulsory vaccination law"

AND furthermore
https://casetext.com/case/matter-of-viemeister-v-white
"independently of any specific menace of disease, a regulation excluding unvaccinated children from the public schools is reasonable, valid and constitutional."
"the case also highlighted that claims of vaccines harms, when the majority of scientists disagree, would not be enough to lead the court to overrule the legislature. "

And i'm pretty sure most scientists agree, but even if they didn't, no, it's not just your choice. The fact is, your health affects the people around you. It's not just you looking out or not looking out for your own best interests.


ORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Even if I think you're an asshole and want you to stop spreading your non-fact-based-rhetoric around, if there's one less person who can get sick and spread covid, we're all better off. Don't mistake me. I'd be happier if you shut the fuck up a lot more. But I don't want you to die. It's like talking to my trump 2024 father over here. Get vaccinated already dumbass.


p.s.
Why aren't you concerned about fiscal matters here? It costs the gov more to let someone become hospitalized than a it costs to vaccinate them. Aren't you worried about all that wasted spending?

IMO, no, it's not JUST her over the top attitude and total lack of manners and self control, it's also her insistence that the business support her and deny the trans woman, clearly thinking her emotional comfort should trump the trans woman's ability to participate fully in society.

It's definitely unreasonable to insist businesses break state and federal laws to provide her a penis free locker room, barring the trans woman from using the facilities. Remember, these are the same people that want to exclude not just trans people, but also gay people from not just locker rooms, but bathrooms, pools, tanning salons, anywhere you might see them partially undressed or they might see you partially undressed. I've seen people take that mentality to the public beach, telling gay men they can't be there because they might see a straight man or boy in shorts and lust after them, and claiming a mild pda (a kiss, hand holding) is illegal.

She had the problem, not the business, not the law. If she wants a penis free locker room, she should build her own.

Now I'll ask you, how is her daughter harmed by seeing a naked flaccid penis? The American puritanical mindset about nakedness is sick. There's nothing wrong with seeing a naked person, it won't hurt you.

I don't have a lot of sympathy for the "protesters" still rioting over George Floyd's death, especially when most of them are white, ultra-progressives who think they are actually accomplishing something by violent anarchy. I do have sympathy for non-violent protesters who are trying to get a message across and keep getting caught up in the violence.

In fact, I feel if a person(like said "reporter") ignores a call to disperse once a "protest" turns into a violent riot, they kinda deserve what they get. I mean, how many people shed a tear over that air force lady who got shot during the capitol riots? Call me old-fashioned, but I believe there is a massive difference between non-violent protests and what has been going on for well over a year now in many cities. Portland being a prominent example.

I doubt every single one of the officers who quit did so over one person, maybe they decided to go with that as an excuse and now they are speaking individually on their reasons. I know that I would be incredibly frustrated at trying to do a job with conflicting orders (until recently) from my bosses. I could be 100% wrong about their actual individual reasons, but I would suspect a lot are just sick of the whole mess.

Plus, in the end, a lot of minorities are actually getting sick of these white kids making a mess of a peaceful protest.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-race-protests-portland-activis/in-portland-some-black-activists-frustrated-with-white-protesters-idUSKCN24W2
QD

That chart is right leaning.

They put CBS, ABC, and NBC at the same level of bias as Fox and Newsmax.....that's bullshit, they should be in the same category as OAN, far right, not right leaning. I've seen all three major network do unflattering stories about Biden, you won't find instances of Fox or Newsmax that were unflattering for Trump...except by those who were quitting on air because they were sick of being forced to lie constantly, not as approved content.

Accidental Upvote, screen jerked. Someone please downvote the lie above for me.

Yes, rewriting with lies and false, ever evolving stories they can't keep straight.
If you're going to be a liar, you better be smart or you won't be able to remember the lie....like you.
Your life is nothing but lies and false stories. We all saw what happened live on tv, but you trust liar Trump over your own eyes and ears and the Everest of evidence you Maga morons left online...months of planning. Not one Antifa member has been arrested, not one BLM member, (the guy who once said black lives do matter doesn't count, I know it's all you've got) but hundreds and hundreds of stupid short bus Trumptards are awaiting prison because Trump told them to overthrow the government and make him president again. They said this repeatedly on camera. This was not business as usual, these were not peaceful protesters nor peaceful visitors, it was an armed, violent, quite deadly attempted coup. When you try a coup, you are an insurrectionist. As part of the mob rioting inside the capitol building, every single one is complicit in 5 deaths and should go away for life. If they WERE BLM or Antifa, you would agree.

You are the liar. You only tell false stories....constantly, and then hide like a baby when they are proven to be lies time and time and time again.

Your failed election/insurrection lies so far....
Trump won an election....that has never happened.
There was massive election fraud by democrats.
There was no attack on the capitol.
Trump wasn't involved at all.
Trump didn't tell them to attack.
Trump did everything possible to stop them.
There wasn't any violence.
It was really all BLM and Antifa, not Trumpists.
It was led by BLM and Antifa, who tricked Trumpists.
No one was armed.
It was planned by Pelosi.
It was planned by McConnell to please Pelosi.
It was a normal day and just some normal visitors acting appropriately.
Trump isn't so stupid that he stared directly into an eclipse on national television.....sorry, I guess that's unrelated, but still a failed lie.

Your idiotic bullshit is never ending....just saying baseless factless nonsense until people are so sick of it they ignore you, then calling that winning. Hint, that's losing like a spoiled baby everyone dislikes, not winning.


For you....Barry Morphew was charged with first-degree murder for the death of his wife Suzanne Morphew, but that didn't stop him from casting a ballot in her name for Donald Trump. Republicans actually murdered their loved ones to commit voter fraud for Trump, and he still lost in a historic landslide. Remove all the cheating, frauds, road blocks, voter purges, etc, Biden would have 75% of the vote, loser.

Second one for you....Trump is charging his secret service detail almost $200000 a year, $400 a day every day for one small room at Maralago to be near enough to protect him. No other ex president has EVER charged their security detail to stay on their property, I guess Trump is either so broke he really needs every tax payer penny he can squeeze out or so unpatriotic he just wants to keep sticking it to America....most likely both. Your hero, convicted fraud and charity thief who raised the debt in 4 years of a recovered economy as much as Obama in 8 years of recovering from the last Republican recession/depression....Your "financial genius".

And a third Trumptard snowflake story for today....7 republican majority counties in Oregon that make up 2% of the population voted to secede from Oregon and join Idaho because they hate the liberal majority but think they shouldn't move, the state needs to change to suit them, giving up over 75% of the state, most of which doesn't want this, so they can not live in a liberal state. Talk about whining little bitches. Your party is Benjamin Buttoning back into diapers....at this rate, by 2022 we can just abort you. Lmfahs!

They aren't afraid, they're sick of indulging idiotic morons at great cost to the state and more degradation to faith in elections here over bullshit accusations that have all been retracted by every person who made them besides Trump, and that have been thoroughly and repeatedly debunked by multiple actual forensic audits....looking for bamboo on ballots to prove the entire election was rigged, this time by China, because we all know bamboo=China and nothing else, now they just need to find it and boom, Trump’s president. So idiotic and delusional.


What's happening in Arizona now is not a forensic audit, it's a purely partisan witch hunt by stop the steal creators with zero election or auditing credentials using uneducated rabid Trumpsters who aren't auditing, they're searching everywhere for anything they can exaggerate into another baseless accusation that the election was stolen by Chavez.

You're spouting more nonsense. Trump was never up 8-1, and because in person votes were counted first they gave a false impression that Trump led at one point, this was purely by design and you know it.
There was never any question that in person voting would favor Trump, Biden's followers knew the virus wasn't a hoax and voted by mail. Again, you know this.
There was also no question that mail in voting would favor Biden, that's why so many republican led states changed their rules to force the mail in count to wait until in person votes were counted in full to start counting mail in ballots....to create that false perception for one point in time early in the count to give dishonest morons like you a false reason to ask these bullshit questions.
No counts happened without witnesses or off camera. It's another lie, Bob.
No counts happened in secret.
No votes were dumped.
No witnesses were removed besides those that ignored the law and became disruptive and those that weren't actual official witnesses but just people who wanted in. Windows were covered for that reason, republicans were taking photos of poll workers faces to attack them, the legitimate republican observers who weren't removed for cause were inside those windows, not blocked by them. You know this.

More long debunked and admitted bullshit lies Bob. What little of these accusations that weren't pure misrepresentations or lies all went to court and was all tossed by usually Republican judges because it wasn't true, there's zero evidence of these made up claims. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Nunca. Absolutely squat.
You know all of this, you dishonest liar, you made the same arguments at the time and every single accusation was debunked thoroughly...You just chose to ignore every explanation and exposure of the pure lies you were fed, and now pretend they weren't answered. You're a gullible moron who bought a con man's con....and you're so ridiculous you continue to believe it long after the perpetrators have admitted it was never true or an honest accusation, and only a gullible moron could have believed them when they said it was true.

Since we're asking questions....How come Trump won’t agree to stop raping little girls? How come he’s still is terrified of his taxes, or foreign business dealings, or foreign holdings and secret bank accounts being investigated?
I think we both know why.

Since we’re indulging questions about recounts, why aren’t democratic observers allowed to closely observe this recount? Why are only Trump cultists allowed to participate? Why are ballots being counted multiple times using different criteria using no discernible rules or safeguards, actually destroying or removing some ballots in the process? Why is this happening at all after multiple Republican led recounts in this county came to the exact same results already? Why in the fuck are taxpayers paying for the umpteenth recount, this time by partisan frauds with zero election experience besides creating the big lie in the first place?
Why has it taken three weeks to get through well under 300000 votes when they knew they had three weeks to finish? Why do they now say it will take them until September to do what takes every other recount under three weeks? Why do they plan to take this circus on a national tour, heading to Georgia next to try this nonsense again, planning to keep the big lie alive through 2022?
Answers please, unlike you I want to hear answers. Sadly, I know you don't have a single one.

It's already well established that Bob wants people to be treated unfairly, see the other accounts with almost identical timestamp that sock puppet brigade for him and then see our FAQ.

"Can I create or use more than one VideoSift account?
There is a strict rule of no more than one account per person, please. Abusers of this rule will be permanently ban hammered via IP address. Sorry."


I'd invoke it myself if the site weren't already lacking members.


It's really sick you know? They have these ideas, but it's all summed up with some general structure.

"blah blah blah, and THAT is why black lives don't matter" Idk what you see when you see this interviewer, but she looks like one of the people throwing garbage on the field in that Jackie Robinson movie.

That looks like a Monarch so that'd be one sick puppy if he did eat it.

I thought I addressed that. Travel was also open between states, and many countries with "free travel amongst nations" had no-travel/stay at home orders in place, unlike the U.S., and afaik, mandatory quarantine for all international travelers.

Again, because he eradicated the international Global Health Security and Biodefense unit, I can legitimately ascribe every single non Chinese death and most Chinese deaths to his actions directly. A pandemic on this level WAS foreseen after SARS, Ebola, and Swine Flu, it's why we created the GHSB. It's why we had a pandemic response plan that Trump completely ignored and actually denied it existed for months and months.

I also am going by facts. My facts say that at least four things Trump did against professional advice took us from prepared to minimise any pandemic to at worst a foreign epidemic to a place where months after pandemics start our leader denied any danger and made no moves to stop it.
1) Eradication of the GHSB, missed opportunity one to have zero US cases and avoid a pandemic completely.
2) Repeated early public denial of the danger while encouraging others to do the same and go about business as usual, missed opportunity two to have zero US cases, and a missed opportunity to minimize any spread if quarantining travelers (something else he failed miserably to even consider early on) failed.
3) Encouragement of those who trust him to ignore all mitigation efforts, don't mask, don't social distance, don't shut down non essential businesses, don't close schools, don't listen to medical professionals....missed opportunity number three to minimize US infections to thousands instead of hundreds of thousands. Remember the many months he said grandma would gladly die to get people back to work, pretending many months in that only feeble octogenarians get sick?
4) Denial of a prepared response plan, never following it and claiming total ignorance, missed opportunity number four to follow prepared plans based on science from day one, missing the opportunity to keep our infection rate at S Korean levels.

That's four well researched and vetted moronic, irrational, and irresponsible mistakes he personally made that multiplied our infection rate by 100- infinity times (if we could have had zero without his multiple massive and stupid mistakes, which is not just possible but likely, he can be said to have CAUSED every single US case, multiplying our infections by infinity.). There were more, but I'm beating a dead horse.
Remember, his real plan was natural herd immunity, with an expected 3-60 million deaths depending on who you asked.

I say if intelligent decisions could have avoided all US infections, and that's undeniable IMO, you can lay the blame for as high a percentage as you like on the leader who made bad dangerous decisions out of pure narcissistic ignorance and hatred of his predecessor...up to 100%. 80-90% still seems like I'm coddling him, at least two failures could have made cases zero, and others minimized it to under 10% of what we have. All four I listed almost certainly allowed >90% giving every doubt and giving him all possible credit....so yes, I'm satisfied I'm not exaggerating.

Obama's responsible and responsive planning and execution stopped Ebola from ever spreading here despite it making it to our shores, and it was FAR more contagious and deadly. Had we had Trump then doing the same things, there would be tens of millions dead and likely still spreading disease, imo.


Edit: let me try analogy...If a mayor removes the stop signs from 4 way highway intersections, they are responsible for every wreck that happens, even though other towns with stop signs still have wrecks at intersections. Trump pulled the signs, removed the flashing red light, and cut first responder funding, and claimed there never was a highway code to follow and he takes no responsibility for the jump in highway deaths.

I'm regurgitating the numbers Dr Birx used, and comparing our outbreak to other nations that took it seriously like S Korea and New Zealand. If we had used the same serious action S Korea had, our death rate per 100000 would be an astonishing 1/60th of what our death rates were in the first 6 months or so. Just universal mask wearing would have cut our deaths by an estimated >1/4, 130000 fewer deaths, and slowed the rate of new cases significantly, but Trump fought against them.

Here's the link on that data...., granted slightly dated.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/10/23/how-many-coronavirus-deaths-are-truly-attributable-trump/

Remember, the Whitehouse said 100000-240000 possible deaths, around the same time Trump said deaths would never rise over 20000, using the lower of those numbers and blaming Trump's policies for the excess we are >80% his fault now, using Trump's promised numbers over 96% are blood on his hands.

There's also the fact that after knowing about the uncontrolled epidemic in WuHan Trump let over 40000 people (just not Chinese nationals) back in the country from that region with no tests available and no quarantine except for those obviously extremely sick. An immediate and actual travel lockdown could have made our deaths zero, and definitely would have made them exponentially lower.

Then there's the dismantling of the Global Health Security and Biodefense unit he closed that likely could have identified the outbreak in China much earlier and again, made our numbers zero. It's exactly what they were created to avoid.

I honestly feel 80- 90% was being generous, in fact there's a real possibility that a thoughtful adult president would have made any number of intelligent decisions, any one of which could have avoided the pandemic altogether or minimized infections enormously, even minimizing the Chinese epidemic.

I do agree, Biden is doing much better at taking it seriously and acting like rapid vaccination is important, but still isn't doing enough. I would prefer an enforced national mask mandate, mandatory social distancing, school closings until vaccination saturation, etc until we have herd immunity....not half assed measures like 50% capacity at bars and restaurants, with few business shutdowns and zero enforcement, pretending it's over every time infection rates dip.

I know you're joking, but you aren't wrong.

As a Canadian I am pretty sick of hearing some of the very snide attitudes up here about look at us and how we afford public healthcare at similar taxation to the US. How dumb are you guys to be spending so much money on evil killing machines. snicker snicker

The thing of it is though, we spend as good as nothing on military spending by comparison, and yeah, by saving that money we get to cheap out on taxes and still afford the public health program we have. However, we 100% are earning that luxury on the backs of US taxpayers funding a military that protects BOTH our country and theirs.

We are getting a free ride and mocking the driver for spending so much on their car that we absolutely rely upon because our car is missing two wheels and the engine needs to be rebuilt and we're too cheap to be bothered.

Let's say they actually get the votes, I still think it's a waste of time. They bar him from being elected again, but nothing can stop him from naming an 'heir'.

If you think about it, that is even worse than him running again. If he runs, he will still unite every liberal leaning person and most fence sitters against him. If he designates a person for his supporters to align behind, they will get the almost half of voters that voted for him AND a lot of the middle who might be sick of Biden/Dems by 2024.

A victory here is, at best, a moral one. It won't stop a future President of Trump's nature from trying the same thing because that is the way a person like him acts. It does nothing but provide a feel good moment while wasting more of my tax money.

What?

Nice you FINALLY have come around to the fact that Biden won not only the election but also the electoral college and the presidency....but things are far from fine thanks to the inconceivable incompetence from the last administration.

The Trump pandemic, thanks to zero leadership and seeming intentional sabotage by the outgoing administration, is the worst it’s ever been, things aren’t fine. It is the absolute wrong time to “open up and go about your business “. That’s simply asinine. It’s time to enforce stay at home orders and public masking, social distancing, etc by arresting and putting anti maskers and idiots who won’t social distance in prison. Put them in the Maricopa tent prison, feed them green bologna. Sorry, the prison hospital is full, just don’t be sick. That methodology worked in other countries, maybe because their government didn’t support and encourage anti maskers, anti social distancers, COVID deniers, didn’t give up on control in favor of disasterous herd immunity (except Sweden who abandoned it), nor did they encourage the civil unrest, attacks on government officials, super spreader events, refusal of all public health orders, and denial of the virus.

Nice that you’ve FINALLY come around to the truth that the Trump pandemic is real, not a hoax, not a mild flu. It only took nearly 500000 dead Americans to convince you. Of course, you’ll never admit you were wrong no matter how many are dead because of those mistaken beliefs.

This is a nationwide issue, not a state issue. The federal government needs to divert funds, manpower, facilities, ppe, equipment, logistics, vaccines, testing, and training. Operation warp speed failed on every count.

Since not getting treatment is a national public health issue as well as a personal issue, it is a federal issue. Poor people not getting testing or treatment spreads disease to everyone, not just to more poor people you don’t care about. This means yes, the fed should pay for medical treatment as a public health expense, especially since this public health disaster was exacerbated if not caused by the total failure of the federal government to act. Korea was infected the same day, they barely had an issue compared to the US.

Because you simply can’t get a funeral nationwide, and have no choice but to use the few facilities that will accept a body no matter the cost or service, and because this is a federal health emergency, this is a federal issue.

States have been BEGGING for this assistance and more for almost a full year now, your implication that states just need to ask for help is a proven falsehood. The federal government under Trump actually worked against states procuring their own supplies while telling them to procure their own supplies. Repeatedly, when states found the supplies they needed, the federal government would confiscate them, then hand the supplies over to private businesses to resell them to the states to the point that states stopped telling the fed they had found supplies and shipped them in secret to avoid having them stolen. We can only hope Biden has dismantled that ridiculous system the Trump administration set up.