I want to expand on this bit. This right here is from the Treaty of Tripoli, which as newtboy noted was ratified unanimously a mere 10 years after the signing of the Constitution. Treaties are part of the "Supreme Law of the Land" and are not just happy words between diplomats - they've the full weight and support of the US legal system behind them.

So VERY CLEARLY, the early politicians of the US had absolutely ZERO objection to the notion that this is NOT a Christian nation. It is secular, beyond a shadow of a doubt. Any claims to the contrary are absurd revisionist history.

It's called scientism and this religion has many adherents in the secular community.

What a great story! My ex was a huge fan of the "Hoarders" type tv shows, and I always felt they were incredibly sad, exploitative shows. Entertaining sure, but in the same way as rubbernecking at a bad car accident. I'm really happy this woman was able to channel her hoarding mentality in such a societally beneficial manner. I grew up Catholic so have always had an affinity for the concept of saints - I feel she qualifies as a secular American saint.

for many evangelical christians, science is seen as a sad secular attempt to make sense of god's creation and is actually viewed as the antithesis of christianity. Sooo, for his base this message made perfect sense. The odd thing is they can be very intelligent and still believe this is the case. It's not bound by logic.

Another great argument for secularism.

1) I question your sources, because some of the earliest writings ever found were business ledgers dealing with selling grains as I understand it. Capitalism has been a thing since before writing was a thing.

2) um...I think those kids in China would dispute that....THEY made the Iphones, which created a smart phone market by being useful and fun (for most people).

3) do you believe capitalism and the industrial revolution started at the same time, or that capitalism has something to do with surfs, civil rights, or secularism? Capitalism applied to people is indentured servitude, what we lazily call slavery. Unfettered capitalism created a situation where civil rights needed to be delineated and codified, it didn't create them any more than wildfires created firemen imo.

Some people do educate themselves before acting or making purchases, but it's not the norm.

Capitalism says your poor neighbors should die, because capitalism says there is no value to human life...I did a term paper on that. Value is derived from a supply/demand equation, and there's such a glut of humanity that human life has a negative value.

The government paid for around 75% of the technology development. "...it paid for some of the technology...." is incredibly misleading, if technically correct (the best kind of correct). Without a healthy dose of socialism, progress slows to a crawl and only the privileged few can afford it.

1 word....flip-phones. ;-) (I don't even have one of those)

So, you admit Christianity has the same apparent issue of using a label that doesn't match the group (i think you admit Christians are fans of Christ, but not followers of his teachings), and there being no set definition of what a Christian (or Satanist) is exactly....then for no reason you give Christians a pass and continue to claim this group is doing it wrong. Um.......

(Edit: redacted -I misread)

I repeat, because their actions are political has no bearing on their beliefs which were barely discussed in the video. You assume they are secular and not religious, #notmysatanists, because someone else postulated that idea, not because they said it, right?

That just sounds an awful lot like two wrongs making a right.

Claiming an established well defined name for your group/association, and then proceeding to define your group as something completely different is BAD communication. That is an objective fact, not something that varies depending upon your subjective POV. Whether that bad communication also has some morality attached to it sounds more like what your addressing, which is something I was saying nothing about.

Having groups like Westboro Baptists claiming to be either Christian or Baptist is like you said much the same. Morality wise, infinitely worse. Communication wise they might arguably be more accurate, although their words and actions look nothing like the Christ they claim to follow, I do understand that their group at least claims to truly believe in and follow their God. Secular Satanists apparently neither worship nor even believe in the existence of Satan, making the moniker more misleading. Their push for religious neutrality/separation of church and state however place them as far superior morally. Again, these examples are laden with my opinion regarding morality.

Morality aside though, you honestly can't say that claiming a name for your group with a strongly established meaning and definition isn't bad communication when your group shares neither the beliefs(grammar edit) nor practices of that established meaning and definition.

That mission/purpose is clear enough, the miscommunication is in calling that 'Satanism'. To repeat myself, "Satanism" has been well understood to mean the worship of the Abrahamic center of all evil Satan. Calling your movement 'Satanism', and then clarifying that you neither believe in nor worship that Satan and your movement is an entirely separate and distinct secular one is deliberate bad communication.

It's like going around calling my group a antivaxxers, but then clarifying we don't actually oppose vaccinations, we are just against the high profit margins of pharma corps.

When words already have strong definitions deliberately failing to use them and choosing your own new definition isn't clever, it's just bad communication.

Is this the wrong place to point out a pet peeve with groups like 'secular' Satanists? The origin of the idea of Satan is clearly rooted in Abrahamic religion, and as the embodiment of all things evil. When I see self identifying Satanists upset that people presume that Satanism is the worship of the Abrahamic Satan, I lack any sympathy. The name, language and definitions already have existed for a long time, namely:
Satan: The embodiment of evil in Abrahamic religion
Satanism: The worship of the above

Defining your world view as a secular atheist and then labeling that as 'Satanism' is just deliberately communicating badly. I can understand the angle where people want to use it to provoke, but at some point you've gotta step back and acknowledge that yes you were just miscommunicating things badly to draw attention to something.

There are many different kinds of Satanists. Some are just secular atheists, like Anton Levay. Others literally worship the devil and offer sacrifices to him. These are most likely the former

Hey BSR, I appreciate your question.

It's hard to overstate the impact that Christ has had on my life. Since I was saved He has transformed me into a new person. Not a perfect person, mind you; I am a work in progress.

Before I knew that God existed, I was totally secular in my beliefs. I didn't believe in anything supernatural. When I found out that God was real, it was completely mind blowing because it meant that everything I knew about reality was in some way wrong or incomplete.

I didn't immediately become a Christian, however. I didn't know who God was, but I did know He was all powerful and personally loved me. Actually the last thing I wanted to be was a Christian.

However over the years I received revelation that showed me that Jesus Christ is the Messiah and the bible is His book. It all kind of culminated one day when God showed me my spiritual beliefs were delusional and my choice was either to give my life to His Son or deliberately deceive myself. I didn't want to give my life to Jesus but I didn't want to believe a lie either. So I kind of begrudgingly asked the Lord to come into my life. He answered and did show up almost immediately.

I knew I was a sinner, no one had to convince me of that. I knew that if God was holy I needed forgiveness because that meant there would be a judgment. I knew that was the reason that Jesus was sent, to save us from that judgment.

As Christians, our goal is to grow closer to Christ. I am getting to know Him a little better in the last few years. Jesus has come to me not just as Lord but also as a friend. He has given me joy and peace which cannot be described and doesn't come from this world. If you had one second of His joy you would never be the same and never see this world the same way again. Everything you can gain in this world is dust and ashes in comparison.

Jesus Christ is God, but also an intimate friend, and He sincerely cares about our lives. He came to reconcile us to the Father and that is His heart for every person. Because He was human, He understands our weaknesses and doesn't condemn us for it. He knows we need help and has provided everything we need to live a godly life pleasing to God.

His revelation has taught me that there is hope which is real, substantial, and available every day of our life. He has taught me to love sacrificially and lay down my life for another. He has wiped every tear from my eyes and helps me with every problem and situation. He has shown me that He is all the bible says He is, and even more. I know He is faithful and eternally, He will always be there.

That being said, I don't think Christians should mix politics with their faith. It mostly breeds hate and the gospel of Jesus Christ is never mentioned. I have moral objections to some things which are legal in the United States, but that isn't my focus. The Israelites when they were taken captive by Babylon were told by God to pray for the prosperity of the nation so they would live peaceful lives there. Babylon was a pagan nation, much worse morally than the United States. I think Christians should do more praying and less talking about the political situation.

I love America, and God has blessed it from its founding. I don't love the moral direction it has been heading and frankly I think it is in big trouble. God will eventually turn America over to its enemies if it continues down this path with no repentance.

As far as left and right, I am independent politically. I agree with some things on both sides, and disagree with much on both sides. The democrat party has become more and more secular so I don't agree with them as much anymore but the republican party worships God with their lips and not with their heart. I don't care for the cutthroat politics of either party, or the goading of their supporters, working them into a constant state of outrage and fervor and hatred of the other. Politics are poisoning this country and choking out civilized discourse. A Christian should never drink from that well but share the living water of Christ and speak the truth with love, sincerely caring about the other person regardless of their political affiliation.

Hi Sagemind,

I'm not offended by your questions or statements. I am guessing you didn't watch much of the video or else you wouldn't be saying all of these prophecies are based on an eclipse. It doesn't a do whole lot for your argument when you skim the video and then mischaracterize the content. This is the atheist MO; come to a premature conclusion based on incomplete information in a rush to falsify the data. Having only a superficial understanding of the subject matter, how would you expect to convince anyone of your position?

The sun being darkened is one of literally dozens (maybe hundreds) of signs that indicate the Day of the Lord, which this video covers. The Jews, and Christians aren't just looking for an eclipse, they are looking at world events, cultural conditions, and a myriad of other things which confirm these prophecies. Without the dozens of other accompanying signs, a simple eclipse wouldn't have any weight in fulfilling these prophecies. The Jewish culture knew about eclipses, that isn't what this is talking about.

This is a very indepth subject. For example, Sir Issac Newton wrote on bible prophecy extensively and said that he considered his work on prophecy more important than his work on mathematics. Based on his studies he corrected predicted when the Jews would return to their homeland. Do you think he just guessed? Read his writings. There is something there a little deeper than atheist talking points.

You've also mischaracterized my faith. I don't believe in God because I was scared and I needed something to lean on. I believe in God because of personal revelation; God revealed Himself to me and showed me that Jesus is the Messiah and the bible is His book. I was content to be a secular agnostic and I wasn't afraid of my death. God wasn't content with that and I responded to His call.

Your oversimplication of faith proves that you don't know a lot about it, or why Christians believe what they believe. I don't think that is very intelligent to dismiss something that you really don't understand. I think your rejection of my faith is mostly based on cherry picking information which has been spoonfed to you by atheist sources instead of a sincere investigation which weighed both sides instead of just one. I would love for you to prove me wrong here.

Have you ever considered giving the claims of Christianity a chance by asking Jesus Christ to reveal Himself to you? Either He is alive and can hear you, or He isn't. If He did give you a sign, would you be willing to follow it?

heretic, my concerns with the account being unused until extremely recently relate to the problem of trolls. It isn't uncommon for aged / unused accounts to a site to be sold for the sake of lending an appearance of authenticity to a user with negative intentions. Your account being a full 3 years old with no visible activity until now made me think you could simply be a troll, looking to foment discord. Videosift has a fairly pronounced agnostic / secular bias, so this is exactly the sort of topic a troll account could easily manipulate to cause arguing.

Having seen your subsequent comments in this thread, I'm fairly confident you're not a troll. Still seems odd to me you waited this long to put the account to any evident sort of use, but that's certainly not a problem in and of itself. Hell, my account is over 11 years old with thousands of votes and hundreds of comments, and I've not bothered to upload a user pic.