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Eagle camera flight

Black Range Rover Runs Over Bikers in NYC

Chairman_woo says...

How am I supposed to continue to interact intelligently when you keep twisting my words to imply things I have repeatedly stated I was not saying?

I deliberately chose my words to make it clear that I was not saying the driver MUST have done anything but only that he MIGHT. Simple reading comprehension; trying to twist my words for emotive effect is not going to work on me. (apart from getting a rise which it totally did)

You only seem willing to entertain a single perspective assessment of the situation and appear completely closed off to any other interpretation/speculation I have attempted to present.

The fact you have repeatedly ignored the core argument I have been making (that there is no such thing as one perspective and morality is a relativistic concept) suggests that either A you don't understand what I'm trying to say (in which case I'm happy to explain further) or B. don't want to understand (in which case I can't do shit for you sorry)

Let me put it another way. Do you think we understand Hitler and the Nazi's better by A. calling them racist fags and blindly denouncing their actions as "evil". or B. attempting to understand the mindset and motivations for what they did with a minimum of emotional compromise?

When you take the care to examine life's little unpleasantries like Nazi's or bike gangs or whatever from a less emotive position, you realise that they were/are not just some abhorrent alien force in society. Any one of us has the same capacity to behave like this, they aren't fundamentally different creatures and the belief that they are is exactly what allows people to justify doing this kind of thing in the 1st place. (If you asked one of the bike gangers to describe you and I you'd likely find they used the same kind of derogatory and dehumanising terms and categories, we're just slipping into the reciprocal tribal mindset)

Do I think bike gangs (and for that matter large groups of people in general) generally represent humanity at its worst? Yes totally, they are to my sensibilities 1st class arseholes. That's why I've agreed with you repeatedly on this (from post 1 onwards in fact!) I just like to come at things from more than one perspective because ultimately perspective is all that really exists to us, in this case I shared some measure of perspective with the bikers as I can see how thing thing could have escalated from that POV and how they might well have justified their actions to themselves.

Ethics/morals are little more than deep aesthetic preferences, they have no observable basis of authority in the natural world, only our own minds. While it's an illusion were arguably better off with, it does rather get in the way of objectivity.

All I really take exception to is having my words and meaning distorted and my core argument ignored. It's called a straw-man (reciting a deliberately distorted and weak version of your opponents argument to then tear it down) that shit wouldn't even fly in a high-school debating club and it certainly wont work with me here. Its fine that you disagree but at least get what your disagreeing with right please.

It's not about "good and "bad" "right" and "wrong" but rather "why" and "how". In short it's more complicated than "bike curious fags" and reducing matters only to that does nothing to help the situation other than to illustrate ones deep aesthetic distaste (which in itself is totally valid and I've not contradicted at any stage). I have somewhat more split "deeply held aesthetic preferences" here which is what I originality began talking about, perhaps that's why I'm finding it easier to at least relate to the bikers side of things even if I don't agree or condone.

"....and also disagree that anything excuses...."

^ This phrase beautifully demonstrates the folly of rigid non-perspective based morality. By embracing any arbitrary absolute truth or principle such as this one renders objectivity and transcendence impossible. Justification is a personal thing, what I'm interested in is provocation and explanation, we can argue what's justified until the cows come home because its not an objective concept it's a subjective preference.

This, when all semantics are stripped away is the core of why we are disagreeing I think. You think Ethics/morals are actual things that matter in their own right, I think they are no more than strong preferences who's usefulness is directly proportional to ones ability to understand and sympathise with those of others. Everything else has really been a play around that (by both of us) in less direct terms I fear....

newtboy said:

Perhaps I do speculate a bit as to why the biker caused the 'accident', but it seems to me that you continue to speculate that the driver MUST have done SOMETHING to cause the bikers to completely loose their shit and attack the family with helmets and knives. I fail to see how you get that impression without starting from the standpoint that the bikers MUST be 'reasonable' people that would not have attacked without 'proper' provocation. I think their behavior proves clearly they are not reasonable. More than likely, there were some 1%ers in that group that live for that kind of trouble, including the one that started it.
At least according to the police, his tires were slashed and his car hit with multiple helmets, provoking him to drive over the bikes/biker. He was later nearly ripped out of the car (door locks people) and finally at a third location actually pulled out and beaten/stabbed.
Perhaps I misunderstood, but you SEEMED to be excusing the bikers behavior, at least to a point, by saying (in essence) 'The driver provoked them'. I disagreed that he did, (I certainly didn't see it in the video) and also disagree that anything excuses a gang blocking the freeway and teaching a lesson to those that disrespected their road ownership by slashing tires, beating the car with helmets, terrorizing a family with a small child.
My hunch is that this guy didn't follow the gangs directions to stop and kept driving where they wanted to do tricks in the freeway, and they decided to teach him a lesson for messing with their illegal street trick performance...which this group is apparently well known for. They did the same thing last year to at least one other car without the chase or bike climbing, from the videos I've seen today. Surrounded it in traffic and beat on it.
As an aside...the guy was in a great position to talk shit, in a 3 ton 4WD on the freeway...it's when he turned onto side streets with traffic and didn't lock the door that he was in the real bad position! ;-}
I say things like "fag gangs with knives" because that's what they were. Fags and the bike curious. I understand the mindset of gang members, I simply think that most are narcissistic self centered assholes that need their friends around to be tough (for the most part... some are real tough narcissistic assholes). If you're wearing a full patch or ride in groups with others wearing patches, you're in a gang, not a club...at least to me.
And before you get the wrong impression that I don't get the dangers bikers live with, I rode my bicycle 40 miles per day in the bay area for years, and NO ONE sees a bicycle, at least they hear motorcycles. I don't support the people who block the street with bicycles either.

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yarmolenko (Member Profile)

Gandalf's point of view

Gandalf's point of view

Gandalf's point of view

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chingalera says...

Jesus! Accuse me of unrighteous inclination and "react" rather than respond to my sentiments. I offered my thoughts to the situation from the POV of the litterbug, not Johnny (death by road rage) Webcam (although in the litterbug's place, IF it was a dick like you described, I'd most-likely be fucking up his grill with my rear bumper in reverse, because I don't leave a car when peeps are obviously unstable).

SO, what you're saying is that yourself as the litterbug, would have done something similar in response to the situation as I would have?

If you take me for someone who would illicit a reaction from an unknown motorist then end-up somehow mysteriously out of my vehicle between mine and theirs while they are still inside their vehicle well, maybe you'd do this, but I ain't goin' out like that.

Who the FUCK, is as passionately insane about dying to get out of their car to teach a stranger a lesson about littering? The litter-police guys' a dick, plain and simple and the litterbugs' a cunt for throwing his trash out so brazenly.

...oh and yes, my name is chingalera that, "little fucking thing over there."

newtboy said:

Yeah, that sounds like you, you little fucker (that is your name). When called out on your insane, out of control, rude and illegal behavior, your first reaction is to do something worse instead of realizing you are in the wrong.
I would have run your ass over when you approached my front bumper, crushing you between my and your car, and claimed you were trying to assault me, or that my brakes failed.
I think the tail pipe idea was the proper solution, too bad no one thought of it there. I hope they got his ass for intentionally running into the third driver on film, not smart. That's likely assault with a deadly weapon. Cops here often shoot people for that kind of thing.

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Game of Thrones Season 3: Inside the Red Wedding

Yogi says...

I know I'm gonna get ripped apart, but I didn't care about the Red Wedding. After the initial shock of watching a pregnant woman get stabbed in the stomach, I was over it. This guy has one move, build up some stuff and then destroy it and watch the ripples. It's not a clever way of destroying something, it's informed by his love of Medieval Times. Also this probably doesn't bother anyone else but the special effects and the fact that a person just sits there while being stabbed instead of at least doubling over in pain is ridiculous. You get more defense out of people in Rwanda from machete strikes, and blood doesn't come out of a neck like that, just watch hockey skate accidents!

I loved Seasons 1 and 2, Season 3 was dragging on and on with me only really caring about the Adventures of Ygritte and Jon Snow, and Aryas little stuff. Actually the pairing of Jamie and that huge woman was pretty cool for a bit but I also got tired of what a sad sack he was.

I have two problems with Game of Thrones though that I think people will agree with, so read this if you already hate everything I wrote.

ONE: There's not enough of it. I'm not talking about Khaleesi wandering the desert, I'm talking about character development. These are HUGE books with tons of scenes, I gotta think that somewhere along the line a character or two is developed with some small things rather than BIG 3 minute scenes. I want the series to be 20 episodes long, 2 hours and episode. I know people want action and every episode has to matter but aren't the books written in POV format? Why not have some POV parts in the show with some personal narrative!

TWO: The fucking praise it receives. I get there's a lot of book readers and it's a very good series, but it's not the second coming. This isn't even the best thing on TV right now, and it certainly isn't better than The Wire. Game of Thrones has a bunch of Emmys, The Wire has only two Nominations...they didn't even WIN ANYTHING! Could that be because Game of Thrones has like One black guy...who's obsessed with raping a white woman by the way, interesting there.

Oh and The Wire is Real, that shit really fucking happens everyday still. Yet this week people are crying like pussies because their favorite characters get got. Even though I'm a huge fan, I'm kind of embarrassed after this episode to be associated with a lot of the internet. I mean I thought it was cool when Buffy died the second time, it wasn't the end of the fucking world though. Also Buffy came back to life, so good reference to use right? Right?! Ahhh shut up.

Two Guys Hoon A Peugeot Straight Into A Lake

chingalera says...

Ok ant, that was a joke! So, I am gonna up vote this viddy on-accounta I learned a new word (HOON- gotta love it as an onomatopoeia) and I have never seen a POV viddy of a car being driven into a pond before, not-counting Hollywood renditions...

My own hoon stories could fill a small journal. One of my favs was the assassination of a Datsun B-210 with RPM, then shotguns-The poor car lurched struggling to a stop, belching oil and smoke as we double-tapped the engine block with slugs Fun-time, victimless country hooliganism-

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