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LOL! Of course you are. Ok, doctor, then you should have at least some basic understanding of evidence as it relates to scientific method, and realize that appeals to authority don't cut it. And since doctor can mean many things, your attempt was lazy and conceited at best. >> ^Yogi:
AHEM I think I've already said that I'm a doctor...not sure if you know what that means but it should completely end the argument right there. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

>> ^BicycleRepairMan:

No. Anecdotes ≠ evidence.
http://www.everydayhealth.com/autoimmune-disord
ers/can-vaccines-cause-autoimmune-disorders.aspx
>> ^Yogi:
Can vaccines trigger autoimmune diseases? I think they can...you know why I think this? Cause I've seen it...



AHEM I think I've already said that I'm a doctor...not sure if you know what that means but it should completely end the argument right there. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

No. Anecdotes ≠ evidence.
http://www.everydayhealth.com/autoimmune-disorders/can-vaccines-cause-autoimmune-disorders.aspx

>> ^Yogi:

Can vaccines trigger autoimmune diseases? I think they can...you know why I think this? Cause I've seen it...

>> ^Fletch:

Penicillin is not a vaccine. It's an antibiotic.>> ^Yogi:
Soooo Vaccinations are perfect? I don't buy it....even penicillin is coming back to bite us in the ass.
EDIT: I should point out that I never got vaccinations and I'm healthy as a horse...a horse thats very healthy.



I never said it was a vaccine. Did you see how I started a new sentence...and I put an "even" there after the ellipsis because it's a different subject related to the vaccine subject. In other words sometimes our science tends to come back and bite us in the ass.

VACCINES DO NOT WORK THAT WAY! Goodnight.

>> ^Yogi:

What about all the superbugs that vaccines are now responsible for? What I don't like about Penn and Teller's Bullshit, is when they pick a subject they choose what they want to talk about too narrowly. It's like the point of this show isn't to educate but to lash out at those who make some false claims...it's missing the script completely.


>> ^Yogi:

Soooo Vaccinations are perfect? I don't buy it....even penicillin is coming back to bite us in the ass.
EDIT: I should point out that I never got vaccinations and I'm healthy as a horse...a horse thats very healthy.

>> ^Yogi:

Soooo Vaccinations are perfect? I don't buy it....even penicillin is coming back to bite us in the ass.
EDIT: I should point out that I never got vaccinations and I'm healthy as a horse...a horse thats very healthy.


1. Penicillin is an antibiotic, not a vaccine. (Whoops, looks like I'm not the only one to point this out.) Are you against medical science and progress as a whole? Too fancy for ya?

2. Correlation is not causation... I thought everyone could grasp that concept by now. Seriously.

>> ^Yogi:

even penicillin is coming back to bite us in the ass.

How is it biting us in the ass?

At most, some strains of bacteria develop an immunity to antibiotics, so those particular antibiotics are less effective on those strains.

Resistant strains aren't stronger than normal strains, they're just harder to kill with antibiotics. How is that worse than not using antibiotics to begin with?

Penicillin is not a vaccine. It's an antibiotic.>> ^Yogi:

Soooo Vaccinations are perfect? I don't buy it....even penicillin is coming back to bite us in the ass.
EDIT: I should point out that I never got vaccinations and I'm healthy as a horse...a horse thats very healthy.

>> ^GeeSussFreeK:

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm
when was the last Polio victim?



Actually 413 in April this year, 19 dead, in Tajikistan. Thanks to vaccinations, the entire thing was over by June. Science: 1* , Jenny/antivaxx: NOT A FUCKIN THING.
Story:
http://vaccinecentral.wordpress.com/2010/08/02/tajikistan-polio-outbreak-halted-via-vaccines/
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/08/04/antivaxxers-take-note-vaccines-stop-polio-outbreak-in-tajikistan/
*actually roughly 500 each month and rising, but whos counting, we all just depend on it, after all.

>> ^Yogi:

Soooo Vaccinations are perfect? I don't buy it....even penicillin is coming back to bite us in the ass.
EDIT: I should point out that I never got vaccinations and I'm healthy as a horse...a horse thats very healthy.


Vaccines are not perfect, but they do the job of keeping 20-40% of our kids from ending up as dead or crippled for life.. (...on second thought, vaccines are perfect.)

Penicillin is "biting us in the ass" because the viruses bacteria it kills (you know the viruses bacteria that kills us if we dont kill them) develops resistance, or more accurately, the descendants of a tiny percentage of them that are immune to penicillin become more numerous down the generations. This is not an ideal situation for us humans, but penicillin is the best we've got. The one weakness of penicillin is that when we use it too much, viruses bacteria evolve to become resistant.

This is similar to why HIV patients, for instance are given medicines in "waves". One month on medication, and two months off, and so on, because during the course of medical treatment, the virus evovles resistance, and when its stopped, the non-resistant strains take over again, and you can start medicating again., this way you can keep the virus level down to a minimum.

Vaccines are a completely different matter. Vaccines work by triggering our immune system towards specific attacks, which means that they dont attack an evolving virus, but they prepare our bodies for attacks against them. Polio, for instance does not evolve to circumvent this protection, because it is denied access to evolve in the first place with mass-vaccination.

EDIT: correction on the bacteria/virus confusion. Thanks GeeSussFreek

>> ^Yogi:

Soooo Vaccinations are perfect? I don't buy it....even penicillin is coming back to bite us in the ass.
EDIT: I should point out that I never got vaccinations and I'm healthy as a horse...a horse thats very healthy.


Aye, you benefit from heard immunity. The fact that many of us can't even be infected means the amount of time the virus has to find a suitable host without a vaccine is very limited. We are basically your buffer state in the game of chess you are playing. And that works, for a time until heard immunity is destroyed.

And there are some very potentially lethal side effects to certain shots for certain age groups. Kids are the most resilient to shots and typically just bypass most of the negative effects. Not like us old timers, as many flu shot recipients can tell you, sometimes it is almost as bad as the real flu. For some, you get all of the minor symptoms of the sickness without the illness factor (it is your body overreacting to the inactive virus). They aren't perfect, no science ever is. But case study after case study has found no credible difference in general health in groups that have and haven't taken them. Medicine is a form of science after all, so you have to play by its rules if you are debating it with its rules.

We definitely take for granted that before vaccines, throughout human history, sickness was the overwhelming cause of death. For me, I generally error on the side of caution, and therefor don't want to die from my penis rotting off...so I get vaccines for myself. Laws requiring you to get them is a whole different can of beans, and a subject of a different story.

Penicillin is a bit different as it is a substance that is actually fighting the bacteria, where as vaccines are jump starting our own body to defend itself. Bactria are also living cells where as virus's are not. They are a dumber enemy is other words.

Your video, Penn & Teller on the Anti-Vaccination Movement, has made it into the Top 15 New Videos listing. Congratulations on your achievement. For your contribution you have been awarded 1 Power Point.

Teller paid his way through college doing magic.

Apparently, doing magic at frat parties with college kids is akin to warding off four-winged demons in the seventh circle of hell. So Teller soon learned that if he remained silent during the magic, he reduced and eventually eliminated the extent of heckling he received during his performance.

Ever since then, he's remained silent -- as a part of his 'schtick.'

(BTW, I met Penn & Teller back in 1988.. long before they became household names.)

>> ^blankfist:

>> ^MarineGunrock:
WTF drama did I miss?

It's simple. Something really lame happened, then the whiny hall monitors swooped down from the their lair of inane injustices and decided it was something Hitler-esque. Trust me, the drama here is not worth the internet it's printed on.


@MarineGunrock: In blankfist's world "Something really lame happened" is code for "I pretended to be siftbot in a lame attempt to get KnivesOut banned, by using my crown powers to fake tag-edits that made it look like KnivesOut was a psychopath. Then I got my peepee slapped. Then I put everyone on ignore who called me out on it."

He's like The Fonz. He simply can't say "sorry, I'm a douchebag."

The hysterical part is that he did this on a troll video that he'd posted, with my username in the tags, about manners. Like... he was going to teach me some with this video, I guess. Because apparently by disagreeing with him, I wasn't be civil.

Oh yeah, and then when he got called out for it, he quietly came over and (*)killed the sift. It's just too rich.