I admit, I do bash religion, but there is just too much hypocrisy, inconsistency, and lack of reason in it to leave it alone. In the world of science, harsh critique is beneficial. I evaluate my position all the time and I have changed my stance on issues as supporting evidence surfaces. There is where the difference lies. Religion is incapable of functioning in the presence of evidence and reason. It survives in a logic vacuum. It is incapable of simply stating, "we don't know what happens after we die because there is no evidence.". Instead the answer is, "an multi-thousand year old book tell me I go to a magical land, so it is true.". Sorry. Not good enough.

It may not be your personal task to convince me that god exists... tough apparently it is for the hordes of missionaries that fan out across the world, johovas witnesses that buzz around my front door, and the mormons in their white shirts and magical underwear that harass my wife at the house during the day. Add to that churches, and the signs plastered across towns spouting 'truth' without evidence. Apparently they have something to say and are trying to convince me their fairytale sky god is real. If all is in their great god's plan, then apparently the existence of atheists is a part of that plan too? I'd like to hear the logic behind that. Again, the mysterious ways argument doesn't cut it.

You certainly have a right to believe in whatever fashionable religion you happen to be born into through familial tradition. You'd be following islam if you were born in the middle east. You certainly have the right to believe in a magic sky god. Just as I have the right to state that I don't endorse superstitious fairy tales.

Interestingly many think it is taboo to speak up against religion. Well.. to them it is because doing so, as per christianity and islam, for example, is punishable by death. Oh wait. We ignore that part don't we... probably because it is not popular. I guess following god's word per the infallible book isn't all that obligatory, if it isn't convenient of the culturally acceptable norm for the times.

From where I stand, it is the responsibility of the religious to take the stories that they spread and prove their validity. They cannot prove it. Thus why should I confide in it? They are welcome to confide in it if they wish. Just as you are welcome to confide in finding a high paying job by calling 800-HOME-JOB. Sure I could tell you all about how wonderful god or that perfect job it is, but without a paycheck (evidence) in hand, it is just a fantasy/scam.

Yes, some religious individuals do good things. So do many atheists. The point I am making is.. you do not have to be religious to do good. I volunteer and I donate to charities. I get riled up when a religious person takes into assumption that if someone doesn't believe in a magic sky god. They are innately immoral. I would contest that morality has nothing to do with religion. Religion holds no monopoly on charity. It never has. Religion just likes to claim it does because god will not show up at your door and help you through that bout of cancer. This supposed all powerful universal creator is unfortunately sleeping at the wheel or too darn busy making flowers to show his face, noodly appendage, or whatever to help those of us that were supposedly created in his 'image'. Whatever that means.

About muslims vs christians. I don't give muslims a free ride. I don't give christians a free ride either. The only group I may be a bit lenient on are the buddhists. While the foundation of the belief is bunk as is all other religions, the core general philosophy is somewhat honorable. The purists that is. The ultimate in pacifism. We don't see buddhists blowing themselves up, nor do we see them crusading across the and telling everyone they are going to burn in hell if they don't worship a man nailed to a torture symbol.


>> ^quantumushroom:

It's not my task to convince you that God does or does not exist.
There are likely millions of people on this planet that would deny the existence of God even if God appeared before them.
But the militant atheist, who denies that ANY good has come from religion is, IMO, intellectually dishonest, ignorant of history, or both.
In this age, subversives have made it fashionable to bash the world's one billion Catholics while giving the world's 1.5 billion muslims a free pass.

>>

I think you need to calm down a bit.

This is NOT about racism. Islam IS a cult. But it gets a free ride from too many of us. I know it feels "wrong" to have a pop like this (and I certainly did once) but once you delve into some of the detail it's not a pretty picture.
Still, if I can go back to the point being made by the video here's a link that is supportive, yes supportive, of science in the Islamic world.

http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/thesword/2010/06/the-staggering-potential-of-is.html

There are things in there I don't agree with but it says that alot of new investment is coming from oil-rich states like Saudi who are at last becoming nervous about just sitting around on their oil reserves and see the need to diversify.
Also it says a recent UNESCO report says that 13 Islamic countries produced a higher percentage of women science graduates than the U.S. I'm sure that's not the full story but there's a link to the report if you want to check that one out.


>> ^Yogi:

>> ^BicycleRepairMan:
>> ^Yogi:
Look this is just racism plain and simple...

Islam is not a race any more than scientology is. Are you also saying "Anonymous" are racially prejudiced against mostly white celebrities with more money than sense? Or maybe you should wait until scientology has a good grip on several nations as the dominant religion before playing the racist card. Its amazing how conveniently cults can change shape to escape criticism.
"It's not a cult, it's a religion"
"It's not a religion, it's a culture"
"It's not a culture, it's a race"

"Its amazing how coveniently cults can change shape to escape criticism"
Dude...seriously?! You say shit like that and it's Not about racism. You just called one of the largest most established religions on the planet a cult. You hate these people...and you're finding and posting things to justify that hatred and bias. Don't argue with me...it's right fucking there. No Shut The Fuck Up! You've been proven to be a bigoted moron better than anyone could ever. Fucking pathetic.

You're right, about pretty much everything you said, but there's no better or worse here, there's a person and his willingness to make "his world" better. Will I receive less support when I need it most if I turn my back on most people in my community, of course, that is unfortunately not reason enough for me to not do so seeing as I hate my community. I can be a "better" person, I can say hi to my neighbors, I can help people out, I can do lots of shit, I just don't want to in most cases. It's not some fierce ideology, it's just me as a person reacting to how I feel about my fellow man (which is usually disgust). Don't get me wrong, I don't go out of my way to fuck people over, and I'm not an asshole generally, but I will go out of my way to remain passive, just the thought of associating myself with other people in some common goal makes me sick. Human kind is a mass of retarded flesh from which occasionally there gets spewed a decent chunk, a free thinker, someone I can respect. Ignoring everyone but those few can be considered childish, but in my eyes it's not an option, it's either that or to be constantly consumed by rage and frustration, the world of tomorrow doesn't really enter the equation...

In reply to this comment by SDGundamX:
Your "world," like mine, is probably composed of friends and relatives. That is what I meant by "world," your personal world. And yes, the "world" (your friends and family) will come and help you when you're in a pinch if you've taken the time to carefully forge those connections (and they won't if you haven't). And in fact the greater world at large may come and help you too--but certainly not if you've been turning your back on it and free-riding the whole time.

I'm not asking you to fix society. I'm simply telling you if you want to live in a better "world" (in the personal sense), you can start making changes right where you are. You could say "hi" to your neighbors and get to know them better. You could help clean up trash in your neighborhood. Basically, you can improve your "local" world. Do something. Do anything. Get other people to do something with you (friends or family). And encourage them to get others to do something. Like I said, doesn't have to be huge or take a lot of time. The thing is, it's those collections of individual choices on a grand scale that shape our society. By improving your local "world" you in fact help improve the world at large as well.

As an aside, there's nothing wrong with being egocentric. That was the whole point of my post. If you truly are egocentric you'll realize your happiness in fact rests a great deal on the stability and happiness of the community in which you reside. It's in your best interest to make sure things don't go down the shitter. And (you'll just have to take my word for this) it actually turns out to be a lot more fun than whatever it was you were doing by yourself.

In reply to this comment by NinjaInHeat:
SDGundamX: The "world" doesn't back you up when you're in a pinch. And yes, individual actions do matter, and the world won't become a better place if people sit around and do nothing. I guess all I have to say is that
a: lucky thing the entire world isn't like myself
b: if you're willing to spend time and energy towards making this world a better place to live in (mostly for future generations as actual change takes bucketloads of time), good for you, I'm not, again, I have more egocentric things on my mind, and I lack the will to try and fix a society I feel completely alienated from.

Your "world," like mine, is probably composed of friends and relatives. That is what I meant by "world," your personal world. And yes, the "world" (your friends and family) will come and help you when you're in a pinch if you've taken the time to carefully forge those connections (and they won't if you haven't). And in fact the greater world at large may come and help you too--but certainly not if you've been turning your back on it and free-riding the whole time.

I'm not asking you to fix society. I'm simply telling you if you want to live in a better "world" (in the personal sense), you can start making changes right where you are. You could say "hi" to your neighbors and get to know them better. You could help clean up trash in your neighborhood. Basically, you can improve your "local" world. Do something. Do anything. Get other people to do something with you (friends or family). And encourage them to get others to do something. Like I said, doesn't have to be huge or take a lot of time. The thing is, it's those collections of individual choices on a grand scale that shape our society. By improving your local "world" you in fact help improve the world at large as well.

As an aside, there's nothing wrong with being egocentric. That was the whole point of my post. If you truly are egocentric you'll realize your happiness in fact rests a great deal on the stability and happiness of the community in which you reside. It's in your best interest to make sure things don't go down the shitter. And (you'll just have to take my word for this) it actually turns out to be a lot more fun than whatever it was you were doing by yourself.

In reply to this comment by NinjaInHeat:
SDGundamX: The "world" doesn't back you up when you're in a pinch. And yes, individual actions do matter, and the world won't become a better place if people sit around and do nothing. I guess all I have to say is that
a: lucky thing the entire world isn't like myself
b: if you're willing to spend time and energy towards making this world a better place to live in (mostly for future generations as actual change takes bucketloads of time), good for you, I'm not, again, I have more egocentric things on my mind, and I lack the will to try and fix a society I feel completely alienated from.

Are you frustrated at the loss of a free-ride and sense of entitlement in America, while the growth of government involvement and distribution of wealth stalls?

Yes. The economic disparities in America are awful.

Do you want to live in communities where your right to three meals a day and universal healthcare are respected?

Yes. Don't you?

Do you want others to fund welfare by forcing them to redistribute, by force if necessary, the earnings they have worked hard for?

Yes and no. Yes, I want wealth redistributed. No, I don't only want others to do it - I'm more than happy to chip in my fair share.

Are you looking for freedom without responsibility?

Nope - that would be idiotic. IMHO the responsible thing to do is to lend a hand when necessary.

@blankfist I will pose a list of my own questions.

Is it annoying when you are reminded that there are those less fortunate than you?
How angry do you get when you are taxed (at much lower rates than the rest of the western world) to help people who would otherwise starve to death, or who would die of treatable diseases and ailments?
How do you feel about using the internet - a system that was initially funded by U.S. Government money? Highways? Airports? Driver's licenses?
What country/state/nation/society (historical or modern) comes closest to the ideal vision of a libertarian society?

Looking forward to your responses.

>> ^Porksandwich:
Hell if those cops had been white I think this guy could ask for double what he's seeking at the moment. Betting he gets 5-10 mil though. Big cop should be facing criminal charges, but he'll probably just lose his job and go to a small town in another state to continue on. Little cop should lose his job as well, unless he's reported his partner for anger issues in the past and been ignored...then he might be looking at a pay day too if they decide to take action on him.
Guy getting the shit kicked out of him needs to sue em both after he's done with the big money trial against the department/government, put some financial hurt on them. The guy whipping his legs with that baton after he's cuffed, and focusing on his head at the beginning is bad news. He was looking to cause damage and pain to him and not in a subduing way. In a knock him out or make him beg kind of way.


Your post is very...uninformed... The agressive cop will most likely face criminal charges so the department will not hold the brunt of the lawsuit. This is a fairly recent change that came about as departments have been forced to take responsibilty. We had a guy down here pull a DUI woman out of her car (through the window) because she intended to drive off. Of course her door was locked... He lost his job, but did not go to jail. Why? Because she could have killed him. That fact did not prevent his job security... Still, in this case there is no chance for the victim to hurt the police.

Departments do not "feel the hurt" financially, ever. They do feel the brunt of politicians who turn on them and get their leadership fired.

>> ^SDGundamX:
Longer vid here, including more context and what happens next:
The cops continue to beat him and kick him after he's handcuffed and lying in the fetal position on the floor. Give the man his $35 million.
>> ^Lawdeedaw:
You mean sadist idiot. The other was a passive idiot. But I am sure you counted the one cop that was there and who was a sadist.
At any rate, my view is to lock up the cop in this one. Fire the other cop if he did not report the abuse.
But the victim wants 35 million dollars from a lawsuit?! I could see if the victim's legs and arms were sawed off with a dull knife, but there is no excuse to give him 35 million dollars of taxpayers' money. Even if his civil rights were violated---if the cop is trained not to act in this manner and the department can prove such, and if the the department can prove they disciplined the cop properly, this greedy hat won't get much. I assume the department will settle out of court because lawsuits cost more than the payout would probably be... Just another sap looking for a free ride.
Thank god for cameras though.



Thanks for the new vid. I did kind of address the lawsuit issue more in the above quote. Call your congressman or woman, sue the officers, and be done with it.

Longer vid here, including more context and what happens next:

The cops continue to beat him and kick him after he's handcuffed and lying in the fetal position on the floor. Give the man his $35 million.

>> ^Lawdeedaw:

You mean sadist idiot. The other was a passive idiot. But I am sure you counted the one cop that was there and who was a sadist.
At any rate, my view is to lock up the cop in this one. Fire the other cop if he did not report the abuse.
But the victim wants 35 million dollars from a lawsuit?! I could see if the victim's legs and arms were sawed off with a dull knife, but there is no excuse to give him 35 million dollars of taxpayers' money. Even if his civil rights were violated---if the cop is trained not to act in this manner and the department can prove such, and if the the department can prove they disciplined the cop properly, this greedy hat won't get much. I assume the department will settle out of court because lawsuits cost more than the payout would probably be... Just another sap looking for a free ride.
Thank god for cameras though.

>> ^blankfist:
Haha. Way to go statist idiots.


You mean sadist idiot. The other was a passive idiot. But I am sure you counted the one cop that was there and who was a sadist.

At any rate, my view is to lock up the cop in this one. Fire the other cop if he did not report the abuse.

But the victim wants 35 million dollars from a lawsuit?! I could see if the victim's legs and arms were sawed off with a dull knife, but there is no excuse to give him 35 million dollars of taxpayers' money. Even if his civil rights were violated---if the cop is trained not to act in this manner and the department can prove such, and if the the department can prove they disciplined the cop properly, this greedy hat won't get much. I assume the department will settle out of court because lawsuits cost more than the payout would probably be... Just another sap looking for a free ride.

Thank god for cameras though.

>> ^NordlichReiter:

>> ^rougy:
Cenk's wrong.
You know, America, if you're so god-damned short-sighted, chintzy, and selfish to invest in a girl with a 4.09 GPA who has been here since she was eight years old, then you're too god-damned stupid to deserve any of the respect that you demand, even if it is at the point of a gun.

Our taxes, no sir. Give her a free ride? Fuck where does that leave the ones who are still at Ellis Island?


It's pathetically petty to deny any sort of aid to a person who has distinguished themselves to the degree that she has.

I like you, NR, but last I heard everyone left at Ellis Island was dead.

Her parents brought her here when she was eight years old.

She's lead an exemplary life, at least in academic terms, and I think that a country--a country that brags so much about free markets and wise investments--that denies this young person any kind of assistance based on what amounts to a fluke of geography has its head up its ass.

>> ^rougy:

Cenk's wrong.
You know, America, if you're so god-damned short-sighted, chintzy, and selfish to invest in a girl with a 4.09 GPA who has been here since she was eight years old, then you're too god-damned stupid to deserve any of the respect that you demand, even if it is at the point of a gun.


Give her a free ride, well free until she has to service that loan? Yep let's just start handing out subsidized educational loans to everyone let the tax payer take risk. Taxpayers already have enough risk; military spending and other big shit. Giving her a public loan would set a startling precedent and it would give other illegal immigrants the ability to get public loans; legally.

Also for everyone's reading.
Illegal Immigrants Myths.
http://www.urban.org/publications/900898.html

I am not a parent, I am an uncle, But I figure that's how you learn. Kid did not break or fracture anything, more so got a free ride from gravity. I know kids can be really really stupid when it comes to situations but this is very tame and I got a chuckle out of it.

The other day my nephew was jumping up and down on a inflated overturned play pool.. While on concrete, when it was raining wearing his rubber boots. NOW THAT'S STUPIDITY. that's something you get hurt from, this video is something you learn from . hahahha, I laugh thinking of the downwards head butt. hhehehehe.

This bill ignores the real problem. Not justly dealing with the illegal immigration problem that exists in the western states. Tijuana any one, or Nogales? What about the 100 mile inland search and identify checkpoints? I was stopped but never searched every time I went from Arizona to Texas; I was questioned as well.

That's the hardest thing about this bill is that it seems to be doing some good, when in reality it is not. It skirts the issues, and only tightens its grip around civil rights and the freedom of citizens to move from place to place; without fear of repercussion or because of their pigmentation. It also puts a heavy hammer over the police to force them to do their jobs; whatever that may be.

There is an illegal immigration issue, but it hardly requires racist, or unconstitutional laws to solve it. As stereotypical as this sounds, a large amount of people will think that if a bill is not in place then illegal immigrants will get a free ride. That does a disservice to all Naturalized Citizens(Some of which may be more informed of US history than any Naturally Born Citizen), and it disenfranchises the conservative right; hardly needed at the moment.

Whether it is liked or not; illegal immigration is Illegal and that will probably never change.

Arizona is a Right to Carry state; this could have been much, much worse.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=36703

Seems to me that this law puts teeth on the Federal Immigration Laws. I fear sounding like an insensitive prick, but if people are in the country illegally, they are already in violation of a Federal Law; no matter what race, creed or whatever. What does the opposition want, what is their grievance; if they want a free ride then they have to seek repealing of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act (IIRIRA) of 1996, and its amendments.
The political doctrine of the "racist" is disgusting. See this; http://www.9500liberty.com/ . The problem is complicated, but racism or violence is not the answer.

http://topics.law.cornell.edu/wex/immigration
Federal law.
http://uscode.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode28/usc_sec_28_00000994----000-.html
States rights to legislate on immigration.
http://uscode.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode28/usc_sec_28_00001251----000-.html

"5. Allows a law enforcement officer, without a warrant, to arrest a person if the officer has probable cause to believe that the person has committed any public offense that makes the person removable from the U.S."


"22. Specifies that it is unlawful for a person to do or attempt to do the following if the person knows or recklessly disregards the fact that the alien has come to, has entered or remains in the U.S. in violation of law:

a) transport or move an alien in Arizona in a means of transportation;

b) conceal, harbor or shield an alien from detection in any place in Arizona, including any building or means of transportation."

Section 5 is vague, section 22 could have an impact that was not intended. Section 5 throws up red flags all over.

EDIT: Watch the video in my comment below. A regular Law Officer should not have the right to Profile people; federal law. I've struck out my original opinion of the bill. This bill is a terrible knee-jerking reaction, and innocents will suffer as a result; and that is inexcusable.

That's not a tree, that's just a leg of a mega giant spider (their mother), they are trying to get on her back for a free ride.

Unemployed and seven kids? I would assume she already has healthcare. Must be that free ride some people are outraged over.

Living in a 743sqft house in a slummy neighborhood, earning $14k a year on part time, minimum wage work and pulling in that fatty $6-8k tax return (kids can do that for ya!) is totally the easy street I want to live on!

Makes it worthwhile when I have to pawn off that flat screen and over priced used Escalade I bought with my return (not mentioning when I sell it off, I continue to add to my "upside down" debt on downgrading to a shittier vehicle just to get to work) because I make only enough money to feed the kids and buy $5 DVD's from Walmart for my $30 DVD player I beat the hell out of some schmoe for on Black Friday.

The above example is from a family I know. Free rides, eh? I rather keep paying taxes than to take that free ride. If someone is making a comfy living milking the system, I'd say thats well outside the norm.