I love it when you talk about bonding, fap fap fap.

>> ^Psychologic:

>> ^deathcow:
> If you take the recommended daily dose, it puts you at about 1.6mgs of fluoride a day.
Fluorine bound into Fluoxetine is a lot different than fluorine bound into fluoride. You can eat all the salt you want but eating elemental chlorine and elemental sodium would kill you and light you on fire. Groaningly bad that he would equate drinking fluoride to being the same as eating Fluoxetine.

Yea, people seem to think of chemistry like cooking, where a molecule is just a loose collection of ingredients.

When people talk about the health risks of "fluoride" they're usually talking about Sodium Fluoride, which is an ionic compound and splits into Na+ and F- when dissolved in water (the negatively charged fluorine ion is called "fluoride").
Excessive amounts of fluoride (well above what is generally in tap water) can lead to severe health problems. Perhaps lower amounts cause problems too, but the evidence is less clear.
Prozac contains three covalently bonded fluorine atoms which do not split off when being metabolized. Prozac has it's own health impacts, but not because it produces fluoride ions.

>> ^deathcow:

> If you take the recommended daily dose, it puts you at about 1.6mgs of fluoride a day.
Fluorine bound into Fluoxetine is a lot different than fluorine bound into fluoride. You can eat all the salt you want but eating elemental chlorine and elemental sodium would kill you and light you on fire. Groaningly bad that he would equate drinking fluoride to being the same as eating Fluoxetine.


Yea, people seem to think of chemistry like cooking, where a molecule is just a loose collection of ingredients.


When people talk about the health risks of "fluoride" they're usually talking about Sodium Fluoride, which is an ionic compound and splits into Na+ and F- when dissolved in water (the negatively charged fluorine ion is called "fluoride").

Excessive amounts of fluoride (well above what is generally in tap water) can lead to severe health problems. Perhaps lower amounts cause problems too, but the evidence is less clear.

Prozac contains three covalently bonded fluorine atoms which do not split off when being metabolized. Prozac has it's own health impacts, but not because it produces fluoride ions.

> If you take the recommended daily dose, it puts you at about 1.6mgs of fluoride a day.

Fluorine bound into Fluoxetine is a lot different than fluorine bound into fluoride. You can eat all the salt you want but eating elemental chlorine and elemental sodium would kill you and light you on fire. Groaningly bad that he would equate drinking fluoride to being the same as eating Fluoxetine.

@Matthu

I am not a chemist. However, I think I have an approximation for you on fluoride. Prozac is composed of Fluoxetine. It's chemical formula is C17H18F3NO. The approximate mass of the fluoride is about 8% of the compound. If you take the recommended daily dose, it puts you at about 1.6mgs of fluoride a day. The Daily Max for ANY weight of human is 10mgs. The average daily consumption from water is around 1mgs as well. This is about 2mgs a day from just these 2 sources. This is a hazardous level for infants and small children. In addition to tap water and medicine, food is usually processed with tap water and therefore has trace levels of fluoride. In addition, so do some sodas, juices, teas, wines, ect. Also, some salts, and interestingly enough, cigarettes ( anaesthetic methoxyflurane, isoflurane). So once again, it isn't a once source problem. Water, specifically tap water, is used in nearly every facet of food production. It's the snowball problem. This wouldn't be a problem if we just opted for personalized tap fluoride dispensers, or some other local, "toggalable" option. And really, why ingest something that is supposed to be topical? Should I start eating deodorant next?

"Fluoride" is the main ingredient in Prozac? Wow Jesse, I like you for a lot of your political views, but this is like saying table salt is poisonous because it's mostly chlorine.

I'm not saying Prozac or Fluoride are necessarily healthy, but equating the two chemically is hilariously misinformed.

@smart people

I didn't know fluoride was the main ingredient in Prozac..... But even if it is, it's such a minute quantity that it cannot have any effect, can it???

I'm super pro tap water, I despise the idea of bottled water. I'm pretty sure my tap here in Montreal has fluoride...

EDIT: Actually... looks like Montreal doesn't have fluoridation, however it's difficult to say for sure because cities seem to flip and flop back and forth on fluoridation and some Burroughs of Montreal do add fluoride. Ah well whatever, maybe the cool-aid's good for us.

>> ^gargoyle:

Fluoridation is also suspected of being a contributing cause to hypothyroidism. Can't find anything rigorous on this yet. Still looking.


quick search for hypothyroidism says "women over the age of 60 are the most at risk."

Imagine how hard it is for a scientific study to run for 60 years before the data gets collected. Especially with fluoride being a politically charged subject; I mean industrial corporations would be liable for billions in damages if fluoride poisioning became documented.

>> ^charliem:
To get the kind of fluoride damage he showed in those pictures you would need a LOT more than what gets added to your water, but he conveniently omitted that bit of info, only to then plug his crap at the end of the bit.
Selling homoeopathic shit as a doctor ruins all credibility this guy had.


We both agree that selling homeopathic shit is shit.

To get that fluoride damage.... so how did he get it? Most likely just drinking too much water. Maybe he didn't have air conditioning. Fluoride also has been scientifically linked to bone cancer. Thankfully bone cancer is relatively rare to begin with.

>> ^gargoyle:

Fluoridation is also suspected of being a contributing cause to hypothyroidism. Can't find anything rigorous on this yet. Still looking.


It is hard with all the conflicting and conflated data and opinions out there to accurately gauge it. I am not a chemist either, but I know it makes my soil toxic to plants over time. I believe the chemical classification for Sodium Fluoride is a Toxic, Irritant, but for some reason the CDC lists it an an inert...which is completely false. People who do organic farming are really critical with the CDC on this point because Sodium Fluoride is anything but inert and violates the organic farmers main goal; of removing all toxic elements from food production. With fluoride in toothpaste, I really don't see a purpose for water fluoridation anymore. Like someone mentioned earlier, why ingest something that is supposed to be a topical application. Now that toothpastes all come with it, that topical nature is realized and drinking water fluoridation should fall away. Sodium Fluoride has electrolytes, what plants crave!

Fluoridation is also suspected of being a contributing cause to hypothyroidism. Can't find anything rigorous on this yet. Still looking.

This is why I am glad I grew up in the country and drank well water and as an adult who lives in a small city I get water delivered from a spring (for about $20 a month). City water just tastes like shit, the fluoride not withstanding anyway.

And one wonders why so many people drink soda and coffee over water anymore.

It wouldn't even be an issue if we had choice in the matter, which you don't. It wouldn't be hard to have little fluoride diffusers on the tap. That way, you could control it better for your own use. Fluoride damage is among one of the top forms of crop damage along with vermin (which can be avoided if you manage the pH of your soil because it is a salt, it is just an unnecessary pain in the ass). It would be nice for a home gardener to be able to choose not to use fluoride. This isn't vaccination where herd immunity has an affect on the group, this is completely isolated to individual people. I don't see why "Brita" level fluoride solutions aren't the more viable alternative.

Teeth damage from fluoride in drinking water is definitely a very real phenomenon. I grew up in Suffolk, VA, which has a ridiculously high concentration of fluoride added to the water. We didn't know about it when I was growing up, and now my teeth have very dark brown spots on them, it looks like complete fucking shit. I've been getting them fixed, a couple at a time, over the last couple months, at a cost of $500 per tooth.

>> ^marinara:

so it's better to be a dumbass dentist and ruin peoples teeth with flouridosis and feed poison to babies than to sell some homeopathic shit? rhetorical question.


Logical fallacy. Yes fluoridosis is bad, but not once has he provided evidence to suggest excess levels of fluoride intake are due to the added levels in drinking water. To get the kind of fluoride damage he showed in those pictures you would need a LOT more than what gets added to your water, but he conveniently omitted that bit of info, only to then plug his crap at the end of the bit.

Selling homoeopathic shit as a doctor ruins all credibility this guy had.

The funny thing about fluoride is that it's purported benefits are topical. So even if you (falsely) believe it reduces cavities, you'd be an even bigger moron to deliver it in a format that is ingested, like tap water. They put warning labels on toothpaste telling you not to do this, but not when it's in the water supply. Makes perfect sense, right? Who knows what bodily ailments this stuff is contributing to in our society.

Just because you can find an opponent of something who is trying to scam you afterwards doesn't mean they aren't right about the shit being bad for you. Plenty of good scientists and dentists who aren't homeopaths have been voicing their opposition to fluoridated water for years.