>> ^conan:

aren't there laws against filming public space in the US? At least in Germany it would be highly illegal to have a private camera filming anything other than your own private grounds.


Expectation of Privacy is a good rule of thumb. A great big camera and a sign "you are being watched by video" is more than enough in almost all instances. Privacy only comes into play with hidden cameras.

There's a bunch of "peeping tom" scenarios in some parts, where if you are the landlord, you can record video, or audio --but not both-- in any public or PRIVATE area other than bathrooms...

>> ^Quboid:

>> ^conan:
>> ^EMPIRE:
Here in Portugal the law is similar to german. You obviously can install a video surveillance system, but you need to fill out a form informing the data protection agency, telling exactly what can be seen through the camera(s). Otherwise, that footage will never be accepted in a court of law as evidence.

Another fun fact in law differences just by the way: evidence illegaly obtained can sabotage a case in the US (at least has to be disregarded) whereas it makes no difference in Germany. Police unlawfully searches your home and find drugs? You will be prosecuted (but the copper also will).

That's interesting. I always thought it was weird that illegally obtained evidence is unusable, surely if it proves the guy did it then evidence is evidence? If it is obtained illegally, then whoever obtained it should be charged with whatever the illegal action was. Court cases should be "is the guy guilty" rather than "can we show the guy is guilty within the rules". I know it gets more complicated than this but on the face of it "evidence against Mr. Big is accepted, but you just implicated Officer Smith" seems right.


Agreed, that seems the most sensible way to go.

>> ^conan:

aren't there laws against filming public space in the US? At least in Germany it would be highly illegal to have a private camera filming anything other than your own private grounds.


There is no such law in Germany that prohibits you from taking normal pictures or videos of people. There is however a law that prohibits to release those pictures to the public. So for example youre not allowed to publish them on youtube without making faces unrecognizable. Also, if you take pictures or videos with a camera somewhere the majority of the day, there has to be a sign that this place is video monitored.

However, that law is only enforced if there is someone complaining and most people dont even know about this law. It is in no way a strict law at all, otherwise all those videos of policemen in demonstrations on Youtube in Germany would be illegal.

It is true that as a private person, youre not allowed to just put up a camera on your house to record everything that happens outside on the street. However, like the camera on this video, it is a grey area. Because you are allowed to record your own house and entrances to it for safety reasons.

>> ^budzos:

Something in this vein happened with UPS almost three years ago and it still makes me so fucking mad when I think about it... I will never use UPS again. Fuck you UPS you useless cunts.


One time a UPS delivery girl dropped off my package and as I watched her from the window, her not noticing, she walked by my sprinklers which were on and saw one was broken. She bent down and fiddled with it for a good 30 seconds until it was fixed and sprayed correctly, I thought that was the sweetest thing ever.

so what ? take the fine, pay it out of the crap load of cash fedex will pay you to look good to the news crews when you go the press with this.

Job done.

>> ^FlowersInHisHair:

Funny that people are more upset about the use of a camera than they are about this idiot not even trying to do his job.


There's nothing to debate about the douche in the video.

>> ^conan:

>> ^EMPIRE:
Here in Portugal the law is similar to german. You obviously can install a video surveillance system, but you need to fill out a form informing the data protection agency, telling exactly what can be seen through the camera(s). Otherwise, that footage will never be accepted in a court of law as evidence.

Another fun fact in law differences just by the way: evidence illegaly obtained can sabotage a case in the US (at least has to be disregarded) whereas it makes no difference in Germany. Police unlawfully searches your home and find drugs? You will be prosecuted (but the copper also will).


That's interesting. I always thought it was weird that illegally obtained evidence is unusable, surely if it proves the guy did it then evidence is evidence? If it is obtained illegally, then whoever obtained it should be charged with whatever the illegal action was. Court cases should be "is the guy guilty" rather than "can we show the guy is guilty within the rules". I know it gets more complicated than this but on the face of it "evidence against Mr. Big is accepted, but you just implicated Officer Smith" seems right.

>> ^EMPIRE:

Here in Portugal the law is similar to german. You obviously can install a video surveillance system, but you need to fill out a form informing the data protection agency, telling exactly what can be seen through the camera(s). Otherwise, that footage will never be accepted in a court of law as evidence.


Another fun fact in law differences just by the way: evidence illegaly obtained can sabotage a case in the US (at least has to be disregarded) whereas it makes no difference in Germany. Police unlawfully searches your home and find drugs? You will be prosecuted (but the copper also will).

>> ^curiousity:

@conan
Depends on the state. Most of the time you can get away with it because it is public property (and owned private property) and it is not recording any sound (avoids following under wiretapping laws.)


Same over here, audio has different "weight" than video.

>> ^kevingrr:

@conan
I'm no lawyer, but the camera is on his property and mostly for the security of his property. Cameras are everywhere on private property that have a view of public alleys and roadways.
There is no reasonable expectation of privacy here - the fedex guy is in public on a sidewalk. So there is no "invasion of privacy".
I am not familiar with German law at ALL, but if someone takes your photograph while you are in a public place is that a crime?
That is all secondary to the fact that his job is to safely deliver goods/packages.


Funny but 100% true: Yes, it is against German law to take a picture of a person in public space without their consent. You can however take pictures of "sceneries", i.e. without the main picture content being a single person. Say you take a picture of a roller coaster at Oktoberfest, there most probably will be several persons on that picture but that's perfectly okay. But if you take a picture of the good looking waitress you fancy, that's illegal. Yes that sounds strange and yes it is highly impractical but the law is the law.

And if you install a camera on your property to watch over your driveway it must not film the street or sidewalk. If it does (and anyone finds out) you'll be fined.

German law in this context does not focus on the surroundings (i.e. public / private) but on the privacy of persons. But anyhow: German privacy laws are extremely strict (therefore B2C telemarketing is illegal for example, i could name tons of other examples...).

I never dealt with US laws regarding privacy in detail, i only knew there nearly is no such thing as privacy outside your own home in the US. I just read up some details and the difference between these two countries is pretty stark.

>> ^Trancecoach:

that's private space. that's essentially a security camera on a private gate.>> ^conan:
aren't there laws against filming public space in the US? At least in Germany it would be highly illegal to have a private camera filming anything other than your own private grounds.



but it is filming the street and the sidewalk... but i did some googeling and it seems that US laws are much less strict in regards of filming public spaces.

*Shouts out from Albany Park!
>> ^kevingrr:

I witnessed a Fedex guy doing this in my neighborhood (Wicker Park in Chicago).

that's private space. that's essentially a security camera on a private gate.>> ^conan:

aren't there laws against filming public space in the US? At least in Germany it would be highly illegal to have a private camera filming anything other than your own private grounds.

@conan


I'm no lawyer, but the camera is on his property and mostly for the security of his property. Cameras are everywhere on private property that have a view of public alleys and roadways.

There is no reasonable expectation of privacy here - the fedex guy is in public on a sidewalk. So there is no "invasion of privacy".

I am not familiar with German law at ALL, but if someone takes your photograph while you are in a public place is that a crime?

That is all secondary to the fact that his job is to safely deliver goods/packages.

FedEx Public Relations is going fall on this guy like the Spanish Inquisition.


Not so much for what he did, but for letting it get caught on camera.