Totally flagrant. To me this is as bad as when McSorley brained Brashear with his stick. What a piece of shit to claim this was just celebration. Yeah sure, because you see so many one-armed elbow-first celebrations.

>> ^non_sequitur_per_se:

Saying you can't sneeze with your eyes open is like saying you can't like your own elbow. They're both BS...


I don't just like my elbow, I LOVE my elbow!

Take that naysayers!

Saying you can't sneeze with your eyes open is like saying you can't like your own elbow. They're both BS...

It should be, yes. But it's somewhat comparable to pullying jerseys in football/soccer, isn't it? Rules say it's a foul/yellow card, yet you see it 50 times in every match without any calls. >> ^Duckman33:
You are not allowed to push off with your free arm to create space, which he clearly did (or was trying to do), while elbowing him in the face. Both of which should be a foul no matter where you are on the court.

>> ^radx:

See that semi-circle/arc on the floor below the basket? Any defender within that area cannot draw an offensive foul. So elbowing Gasol in the face is within the rules, as long as it's somewhat unintentional. >> ^deathcow:
so, admittingly knowing sh#t-all about sports, is that ok what he did



You are not allowed to push off with your free arm to create space, which he clearly did (or was trying to do), while elbowing him in the face. Both of which should be a foul no matter where you are on the court.

See that semi-circle/arc on the floor below the basket? Any defender within that area cannot draw an offensive foul. So elbowing Gasol in the face is within the rules, as long as it's somewhat unintentional. >> ^deathcow:

so, admittingly knowing sh#t-all about sports, is that ok what he did

That's the next step I'm looking forward to in these games, more realistic and adaptable character animation. They still have to work on animating all the clothing so it doesn't look so rigid, and proper bending of the elbows and hands.

We'll get there eventually.

Elbows flying out, hands miles apart, chest no where near the ground. I mean yes she's technically "pushing up"...

Disney made a few movies using this technique in the 60s and early 70s. Mary Poppins, Bedknobs and Broomsticks, etc.. I remember finding them all dreadfully boring as a child of the 80s.

Roger Rabbit looked far better and more convincing with much more elaborate integration between the "toon" and filmed elements. The two main innovations are painting all the toon elements with extra passes of light and shadow which were "interactive" with the scene (using animator's eyeballs and elbow grease to figure it out). Also using pupeteers and specially built sets to allow more in-camera interaction between toon and physical elements.

>> ^BoneRemake:

Made me laugh. I remember watching this as a little guy and it being the rage.
Kudos to that movie though, is it not the first of its kind ?

>> ^curiousity:

@bcglorf
You seem angry and disoriented. And unwilling to actually read what I am posting. I think you have decided that you are right and refusing to read to anything contrary. You are trying to undermine an argument to authority multiple times... an argument that I never made (which is funny because I strongly doubt you are a referee at the collegiate level, but of course you can dismiss the referee's call because you disagree with him. Classic.) In addition, you are making an argument about a situation that didn't exist in the video to prove what happened in the video fits your mindset or perhaps you missed a key point that I made before. I will attempt to explain what I meant in more detail.
POSSESSION:
You seem utterly focused on an offensive player with physical possession of the ball. A quick reminder: there are 10 players on the court at a time (normal situations) and one basketball. I'll double-check my math, but that does leave 9 players (4 offensive and 5 defensive) which don't have physical possession of the basketball. There are also cases where the basketball is "free" or not currently in the physical possession of any one player; albeit this is typically a very short time. (e.g. when a shot is rejected and the ball is bouncing before another player picks it up. This also includes passing because during the flight of the basketball, no one is in physical possession of the basketball.) Lastly there is the case where two or more players from opposite teams grab the ball at a very similar time and try to wrestle away possession from the opposing player; if this goes on too long, the referee will call a jump ball where the teams will have a tip off for possession. So we have three states for possession: (1) physically possessed by one player (either holding, dribbling, or releasing a shot/pass); (2) "free"; and (3) short time of struggle before a jump ball is called.
PHYSICAL CONTACT:
Physical contact is actually extremely common in basketball. Posts and forwards are often pushing on each other vying for position. It is also extremely common (in man-to-man defenses) for a defender on the opposite of the basketball to have one hand on a player because he is trying to watch the ball in case he need to offer support and that one hand will let him know if the person they are guarding tries to cut down a lane, etc, etc.
Physical contact with the player who has physical possession of the ball is also very common, but more restricted. Any post or forward that every played competitive basketball outside of grade school will know what I'm talking about. That player posts up, gets the ball, and then tries to maneuver for a shot or pass - during this time there is often physical contact at the post seeks to test if the defensive player is overplaying one side or the other. Obviously hand slapping or elbow strike would be a foul, but make no mistake that there is plenty of physical contact during that exchange. Physical contact with a player with physical possession whom is dribbling happens in a similar fashion. As long as the defensive player is quick enough to get in front of the offensive player, it isn't a foul even if the defensive player is moving a little. The key to this is to be essentially in the spot just before the offensive player tries to go in that direction. If the offensive player is too quick and the defensive player ends up almost "hip-to-hip" then it would be a blocking foul; although typically, the defensive player usually gets called for a hand slap as they realize they are beat and try to smack the ball out from behind.
In a free ball situation, players from both teams have an equal chance to seek possession of the ball. Obviously tripping, striking, holding, and over-aggressive pushing would be called a foul. However, in a point that you adamantly resist acknowledging, during a free ball situation, players from both sides have equal chance to seek possession.
VIDEO:
When the point guard throws up the alley-oop, both the defender and the offensive player jump to grab the ball. Watch the defensive player. He is looking at the ball and going for it, not trying to block or create physical contact with the offensive player. They both jump towards the ball and create incidental contact while going after a free ball. Free ball. Free ball. I think the concept that it was in a "free" state might be important here... Incidental contact is not a foul (especially when going after a free ball which all players have an equal opportunity to seek). Hell, there is a lot of intention contact within basketball that isn't a foul. Obviously the offensive player was able to get it because of the skill of the point guard and because he was expecting it.
....
On a sidenote, I think it is hilarious that you keep trying to turn the argument into one of me not "actually played in a competitive game with actual referees" while not knowing anything about me and while your basic concept ignorance about competitive basketball shines brightly.


Actually it is my fault for watching the video too few times. After watching it the first couple times I'd stupidly comeback and forgotten that he hadn't driven the lane with ball but was in fact going for the pass. I was wrong.

I'm still against calling a foul over a look, but the contact never needed a call.

@bcglorf

You seem angry and disoriented. And unwilling to actually read what I am posting. I think you have decided that you are right and refusing to read to anything contrary. You are trying to undermine an argument to authority multiple times... an argument that I never made (which is funny because I strongly doubt you are a referee at the collegiate level, but of course you can dismiss the referee's call because you disagree with him. Classic.) In addition, you are making an argument about a situation that didn't exist in the video to prove what happened in the video fits your mindset or perhaps you missed a key point that I made before. I will attempt to explain what I meant in more detail.

POSSESSION:
You seem utterly focused on an offensive player with physical possession of the ball. A quick reminder: there are 10 players on the court at a time (normal situations) and one basketball. I'll double-check my math, but that does leave 9 players (4 offensive and 5 defensive) which don't have physical possession of the basketball. There are also cases where the basketball is "free" or not currently in the physical possession of any one player; albeit this is typically a very short time. (e.g. when a shot is rejected and the ball is bouncing before another player picks it up. This also includes passing because during the flight of the basketball, no one is in physical possession of the basketball.) Lastly there is the case where two or more players from opposite teams grab the ball at a very similar time and try to wrestle away possession from the opposing player; if this goes on too long, the referee will call a jump ball where the teams will have a tip off for possession. So we have three states for possession: (1) physically possessed by one player (either holding, dribbling, or releasing a shot/pass); (2) "free"; and (3) short time of struggle before a jump ball is called.

PHYSICAL CONTACT:
Physical contact is actually extremely common in basketball. Posts and forwards are often pushing on each other vying for position. It is also extremely common (in man-to-man defenses) for a defender on the opposite of the basketball to have one hand on a player because he is trying to watch the ball in case he need to offer support and that one hand will let him know if the person they are guarding tries to cut down a lane, etc, etc.

Physical contact with the player who has physical possession of the ball is also very common, but more restricted. Any post or forward that every played competitive basketball outside of grade school will know what I'm talking about. That player posts up, gets the ball, and then tries to maneuver for a shot or pass - during this time there is often physical contact at the post seeks to test if the defensive player is overplaying one side or the other. Obviously hand slapping or elbow strike would be a foul, but make no mistake that there is plenty of physical contact during that exchange. Physical contact with a player with physical possession whom is dribbling happens in a similar fashion. As long as the defensive player is quick enough to get in front of the offensive player, it isn't a foul even if the defensive player is moving a little. The key to this is to be essentially in the spot just before the offensive player tries to go in that direction. If the offensive player is too quick and the defensive player ends up almost "hip-to-hip" then it would be a blocking foul; although typically, the defensive player usually gets called for a hand slap as they realize they are beat and try to smack the ball out from behind.

In a free ball situation, players from both teams have an equal chance to seek possession of the ball. Obviously tripping, striking, holding, and over-aggressive pushing would be called a foul. However, in a point that you adamantly resist acknowledging, during a free ball situation, players from both sides have equal chance to seek possession.

VIDEO:

When the point guard throws up the alley-oop, both the defender and the offensive player jump to grab the ball. Watch the defensive player. He is looking at the ball and going for it, not trying to block or create physical contact with the offensive player. They both jump towards the ball and create incidental contact while going after a free ball. Free ball. Free ball. I think the concept that it was in a "free" state might be important here... Incidental contact is not a foul (especially when going after a free ball which all players have an equal opportunity to seek). Hell, there is a lot of intention contact within basketball that isn't a foul. Obviously the offensive player was able to get it because of the skill of the point guard and because he was expecting it.

....

On a sidenote, I think it is hilarious that you keep trying to turn the argument into one of me not "actually played in a competitive game with actual referees" while not knowing anything about me and while your basic concept ignorance about competitive basketball shines brightly.

>> ^curiousity:

>> ^bcglorf:
...snip...

Are you trolling me?


?

Do you not agree and understand that contact between players is called as a defensive foul unless the defensive player's feet are planted? That is, if both players are in the air and there is contact, it is ALWAYS a defensive foul. The only possible exception being if the offensive player throws a punch or something else to warrant a flagrant call. Even then though, some very hard elbows and knees in that situation still get called against the defender.

Do you really argue any of that? If you do, then yes I do question if you've ever actually played in a competitive game with actual referees.

>> ^garmachi:

>> ^westy:
I would say something like the tour de France would be miles harder in terms of general physical requirements and overall strain it puts on the body.
this looks like good fun if its the sort of thing you enjoy though.

The TDF requires that you pedal for hours and hours and hours...
The Tough Mudder requires that you run, and jump, and climb, and crawl, and strain, and struggle, and freeze, and overheat, and breathe, and hold your breath, and take electric shocks, and smash your ribs against hard surfaces, and scrape your elbows, and scrape your knees, and eat sand, and overcome your fear of heights and overcome your fear of tight places, and overcome your fear of fear and... and... and...
(Yes, speaking from experience.)


yah its a different sort of sport and in the end if you are doing something against other people you are going to be pushed to your limmit.

I was just getting at the aspect of overall physical drain if you had a strong man event that lasted 2 months then it would be in the same catagory as the TDR , in the end riders in the TDR have to pace themselfs to do the full race if you had a TDR that lasted one day then they would pace themselfs to that, same with this strong man event i guess part of the skill is knowing your energy recources and using them properly.

>> ^westy:

I would say something like the tour de France would be miles harder in terms of general physical requirements and overall strain it puts on the body.
this looks like good fun if its the sort of thing you enjoy though.


The TDF requires that you pedal for hours and hours and hours...

The Tough Mudder requires that you run, and jump, and climb, and crawl, and strain, and struggle, and freeze, and overheat, and breathe, and hold your breath, and take electric shocks, and smash your ribs against hard surfaces, and scrape your elbows, and scrape your knees, and eat sand, and overcome your fear of heights and overcome your fear of tight places, and overcome your fear of fear and... and... and...

(Yes, speaking from experience.)

Oh My God. There will never be a more fitting tribute to the legacy of Macho Man. Now can we get one of the dragons attacks to be a flying elbow?!