Since they set up a process to repatriate Confederates, I would guess either the law has changed or they were assumed to have renounced citizenship when they swore allegiance to the Confederacy...but I'm no historical law professor.

Yes, there are some non combatants who joined Daesh who claim to have not renounced or forfeited their citizenship, but since they gave aid and comfort to the enemy during "war" and could be executed imo, wanting to return home and be subjected to the legal system doesn't sound a bit smart. I think those who took up arms are in a different boat, with a much harsher likely legal outcome.

We say Venezuela's government is illegitimate and Maduro isn't President, but he's doing a pretty good impression of one so far(much better than the pretender Guaido), including commanding their armed forces. One can be a general without fighting for a legitimate government as well, commanding a large regular military unit is the defining characteristic. As far as citizenship, just saying you're renouncing it doesn't do the trick today, there's a specific process you have to go through(and some do for tax reasons) I don't know if the law was changed since the civil war, but just declaring yourself a rebel and non-citizen doesn't legally make it so today. There's a case in the news today the Trump admin trying to deny a woman ever was a citizen(born to a foreign diplomat) because they know just because she joined ISIS doesn't nullify her citizenship.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-isis-bride-hoda-muthana-court-bid-to-come-home-donald-trump-says-not-citizen/

Good question, but no, because they all renounced their citizenship when they seceded and joined the confederacy. Most petitioned the federal government and had it returned after the war, but it seems Lee's paperwork was misplaced and he died no longer an American citizen and without a pardon for treason.

Edit : there's a parallel today with those who joined Daesh renouncing their citizenship...just because no one recognized the Islamic state doesn't mean they're still citizens of the countries they abandoned and went to war against. Those people are traitors to their countries of origin, but not citizens of anywhere.


Also, you bring up an interesting point....since the confederacy wasn't recognized, neither is the rank of general they gave him, right? If the nation was illegitimate, so is any rank they offer....so logically he was never a real general either. We don't say Daesh military ranks are legitimate.

Dumb Donny doesn't even know Lee was never an American General, and died a failed general of a failed state, a traitor to the United States, and non citizen, not pardoned for treason until 1975, at which time his citizenship was also restored.
Full disclosure, I'm distantly related to Lee according to my mother, who's a hard core genealogist.

Ok, Bob, let me try another tact.
Please follow along with the hypothetical.

Let's assume for the sake of argument that Trump is found guilty of subversion by colluding with Russia against the interests of the USA and obstruction for trying to hide it....undeniably with concrete proof, and it turns out that almost every accusation is true. What type of restitution would you be prepared to offer the nation for the damage your willful blindness and support of clear anti American actions has done? Self deportation? Loss of citizenship rights? What?

Now, keeping that answer in mind, what would you demand if Bernie won with blatant help from China and went full socialist with a complicit congress, supporting socialist dictators, raising tax rates by double, nationalizing energy, medicine, water, etc?

Hello, I'd like to apply for citizenship to Google.

Ok, I, and almost all non right wingers disagree. CNN and Faux are no where near the same level. CNN may have some bias against the man who actively encouraged right wing terrorists to attack them as enemies of America and continues to do so....that's perfectly reasonable and professional.
What they don't do is make up stories out of thin air like Faux, edit video to create false impressions that are diametrically opposed to reality, hire mostly frauds who have been caught falsifying reports, repeat obvious lies because their preferred candidate/politician said them, or go on the campaign trail with candidates not to report, but to speak on their behalf. Your conflation of the two is either disingenuous, outrageously ignorant, or insane, you choose.

I watch more than enough Faux to know what they are, pure propaganda. You can deny it all you like, that only makes you look ignorant or dishonest. I'm certain I watch more Faux than you watch CNN, yet you've made similar (but less honest) claims about them, you must not watch it enough to know of what of you speak, you just take a convicted frauds word that they're liars as gospel and never investigate it seems.

You don't know me, sir, or you wouldn't make such a spurious claim. I gather information from multiple opposing sources. How could I debunk the lies from Faux and OAN if I don't watch them spout those lies?

Then how about what Trump himself did?...turnabout is fair play, so in this instance two wrongs might make things more right, at least more balanced. The left playing fairly, honorably, and attempting to avoid even the appearance of impropriety got us Trump, who has no such qualms. I hope Democrats don't sit on their high horse and complain that Trump doesn't play fair while he destroys our democracy and union....it's well past time to start tossing the steaming shit back at them.

Trump raped his pre-teen daughters on film and bragged about it, that's why he won't show us their long form medical and financial records.....that's far truer than his birther claims.
Also, his kids are all illegals, born to non citizens as anchor babies, (all his baby mommas are immigrants/invaders) when he tries to remove birthright citizenship they should be deported immediately. ;-)

No, none of those people are good at reporting news, not one can separate their rabid hyper biased opinions from fact, although Smith is doing better lately......but slightly better than god awful isn't good.
Fox is a joke, period. They don't have reporters, they have hosts. They're an opinion/entertainment/propaganda network, not a news network. It's really sad that you watch them but don't understand that basic fact, and you defend them as offering good reporting while also admitting they aren't even news...WTF, man?

The thing there is the news media is not being unprofessional, Trump is, but you're listening to him as if he wasn't an impudent infant and believing the nonsense that reporting on his constant vitriolic foibles is unprofessional. It's simply not.

Trump is the leader of the nation, not CNN, not his advisors, not Hannity. He is not being led to the right, he's dragging centrists far right or attacking them if they refuse to go along.
How about maybe he tries to lead towards civility and professionalism instead of impetuously attack any detractors like a spoiled brat, blaming them for his own actions?

You need them, they could help you learn English so you would look less like a Russian troll.
You could also use help with American history, a subject 100% of immigrant citizens know better than you, they had to pass a civics test as part of citizenship, a test you would fail miserably....almost like you aren't even from America, comrade.

Don't ever....EVER...use "we" to describe American sentiment, you do not reflect us. Plenty of Americans do want to help desperate refugees, just not the party that drapes themselves in the flag and cross while denouncing all that those symbols stand for.

Trump is the one wasting our government dollars on photo opps at the border with no legitimate use....by which I mean the blatant ploy to "deploy" thousands of troops at the border a week before the election to intercept the rampaging brown invasion that he's convinced morons is coming.....maybe.....in a few months. What do you think it costs to deploy thousands of troops for nothing for 8+ weeks? Probably more than fully supporting every person in the caravan for years.
One single Trump trip to Maralago or another of his golf courses costs taxpayers at least as much (some costs are classified, so not included in the >$3 million average cost) as yearly resettlement costs for >2000 refugees, including their background checks, housing assistance, etc. He's taken 159 golf trips so far, you do the math and gasp.

*facepalm

Side note: it did not go unnoticed that your reply had nothing whatsoever to do with my comments, and didn't address a single point contained therein.

Let's hope, since the Trump party does nothing but lie foolishly.

The Pentagon's official military assessment of the caravan was leaked today.....the military considers them no threat. <20% of the now 4500 are even expected to make it to the border, no criminal infiltration expected, no terroristic infiltration expected, <1% of the <20% expected to be allowed asylum....that's <10. (The last caravan only had 3). The military is not happy that they're being used as political theater, deployed in the desert with no actual mission and no possibility of being useful beyond being a photo opp for the foolish liar in chief. Even if they could possibly help when the caravan's remnants get here, that's 7-10 weeks from now, so there's no reason whatsoever for them to be deployed now besides political theater.

It's hard lying all the time when your lie requires the silence of patriots.

Side note: Apparently Trump's plan to remove birthright citizenship means his children need to be deported, their mothers were not citizens when they were born (anchor babies), so his plan removes their citizenship and makes them illegal aliens with no papers. Shoot them if they throw a stone, Trump said it's ok.

CNN is unhinged just like MSNBC. Each wacked. Like Jones Jones is just more theatrical.

You bet. I use You people. Since there is no conservative voice here. It’s me against you people. The lost degenerate soles who desires are to debace America values and dilute its citizenship with open borders.

Trump wants all to be proud.

Children have parents-- prove your citizenship-- not hard -- no papers then go back home.

Immigration is not broken. Mexico IS broken = Make Mexico great again .. build the wall.,

I doubt that. ;-)

Except for territory they hold, I agree, Palestinian suffering is their only influence, and that's not much.

I agree, because we back them, Israel does as it pleases. I do think the 'arab world' has legitimate complaints beyond Palestinian suffering, like constantly expanding borders and expulsion from historical holy sites.

I see no chance for a single state (where non Jews are sub-citizens with no vote or power) or an Israeli designed two state (where only barren desert is Palestinian with all water and access controlled by Israel, shut off at any hint of complaint).

The Palestinians do want a two state solution, just not one where any land worth having is Israel and the leftovers are Palestine.

Israel gains nothing from negotiating when they can get what they want, like recognition of another land grab (Jerusalem) without negotiating. That's why this move is horrendous, it gives them incentives to not negotiate and just act unilaterally.

I don't think propaganda is that important to them that they actually prefer their allies suffering to reasonable resolutions, but I don't think that any reasonable resolutions are being offered or even discussed. Given that, what's the option? Outright war? With us backing Israel, that's a no go.

I think, if given a solution that didn't give everything to Israel, the Palestinians would jump at it (maybe not Hamas, but the people). Being offered second class citizenship after having all their land and possessions taken is not workable, and it's what they seem to get.

If N Korea sells Iran a nuke, I hope we can we go back to negotiations instead of genocidal one sided dictations.

*quality nutjobs

We are talking about the same idiot that agreed with a conservative talk show host, all the way back in 2011, that doing away with all amendments after the 10th "would eliminate many problems."

The amendments repealed would contain:

13th - Abolishes slavery, and involuntary servitude, except as punishment for a crime.

14th - Defines citizenship, contains the Privileges or Immunities Clause, the Due Process Clause, the Equal Protection Clause, and deals with post–Civil War issues.

15th - Prohibits the denial of the right to vote based on race, color or previous condition of servitude.

19th - Prohibits the denial of the right to vote based on sex.

24th - Prohibits the revocation of voting rights due to the non-payment of a poll tax or any other tax.

26th - Prohibits the denial of the right of US citizens, eighteen years of age or older, to vote on account of age.

Yeah, I could see how making slavery legal again, making it impossible for the people you don't like to be citizens, and preventing undesirables (Blacks,Women,Poor,Young) people from voting would help a certain section of voters.

Your video, Jon Stewart Gives Conan NYC Citizenship Test, has made it into the Top 15 New Videos listing. Congratulations on your achievement. For your contribution you have been awarded 1 Power Point.

This achievement has earned you your "Pop Star" Level 21 Badge!

In all seriousness though, here's my thoughts on the matter: I believe the n-word is used by most black people ironically. It's an attempt to reclaim power over the word that was used for so long--including today--to oppress them.

The thing is, there is precedent for this ironic use. Many in the gay community use the word "bitch" in an affection and jesting way to other members, but it takes on a completely different tone when a heterosexual person--even one who has a large circle of gay friends--tries to use it in a similar manner towards a gay person.

The thing is that this kind of ironic language usage is self-deprecating. As a member of the black or gay community, you're using a derogatory term that could just as easily be applied to you by somebody else.

Self-deprecating humor of this kind doesn't work so well when you're not a member of the group. It just comes across as punching down, especially in the case of privileged group members like middle-class white kids who will likely never know what it is like to be an "other" in their country of citizenship no matter how much they may sympathize (although as "minority" groups continue to eclipse the Caucasian population maybe within my lifetime they might actually start to experience it).

I mean, how hard is it for non-black people to not call someone an n-word? Very few black people are okay with it. The whiny " b-b-but they use the word all the time" excuse just reeks of entitlement to me.

But what do I know. I'm just some dumb white kid living in a foreign country where I can be pulled over by cops because I look different from the rest of the population and jailed for not immediately providing ID (unlike Japanese people who are legally not required to carry ID at all).