Ah 2020, the year that never stops chasing you..!

Lol.
I'M not a drunk, Bob. Funny you think that's a solution to disappointment. Nothing like a depressant to chase away the blues, eh. That's as logical as anything else you believe.

BIDEN is losing coherency!?! Compared to Trump, he's like a professional spoken word poet.

Keep dreaming. Trump won't get any democrats, even the disillusioned. They'll stay home. This isn't 2016 when the Democrats cheated themselves to put up the worst possible candidate, Clinton, who drove republicans, independents, and disillusioned democrats to the polls to vote for Trump even more than Trump did, and he still had 3000000 fewer votes.

Higher taxes beats bankruptcy, which is our path under Trump. Funny, 4 years ago and for 8 years before then the growing debt was all important and proof of Obama's failure, now it a nothing burger, but no, you aren't a brainless hypocrite, no, never.

The democratic party is so left that in the 80's they would have been far right wingers.

No, they'll avoid the armed thugs Trump is sending out to intimidate voters and vote by mail in waves. I just hope enough go to the polls or drop boxes and avoid the post office altogether so Trump's main plan to rig the election by decimating the post office intentionally will be castrated.

Trump could win, but it won't be legitimate if he does, and won't be recognised internationally because they aren't duped like you. He's made certain it won't be a fair or open election in every way possible, even ways that are clearly illegal, the world knows it.

Likely not.

Wait.
You're saying there's video of him being chased from his gun toting friends by one guy with a pistol? For blocks? And none of his friends helped him at all? That might change my mind completely....but only if they essentially dragged him away, not if he followed along arguing, and if they physically forced him away from his friends, why didn't his friends try to help?

Again, I'll need some evidence of the pepper spray to believe it, because the videos of him running he wasn't acting like a person who had been pepper sprayed, not that it would excuse killing someone else, and I'm assuming the spray came after the first homicide.

(Edit: if the pepper spraying happened, and happened before he shot, then he has zero excuses for any of them. He couldn't see, so had no idea what was happening around him, who threw what, what was thrown, or who he was shooting. You can't see after being pepper sprayed. That makes every shot fired attempted murder of any random person in the area, not self defense. To be self defense, you must know who and what you're defending yourself from. If he was sprayed, he couldn't possibly know, nor could he properly aim.)

A plastic bag mistaken for a Molotov? Not by any American kid, all boys over 7 know what a Molotov looks like from movies and video games, they don't resemble empty plastic bags.

I think you're being biased. I may be too. I'm not excusing any threatening acts by protesters before he killed one, but do excuse any acts committed trying to apprehend him afterwards. (Edit: anything they did at that point would be real self defense, not just in their own minds.)

I can't find any way to excuse him, from going armed looking for trouble to leaving his group where he felt safe to mistaking a harmless object for a deadly one and killing someone out of fear to running away armed to shooting at his pursuers to not reporting it, every act indicates intentional murder and an attempt to escape. He might have had a reason, he may have even feared for his life, but he had no real reason, put himself in the situation that scared him, and opened fire for no GOOD reason.
Children often do things for bad reasons, that's one reason they shouldn't be let loose with firearms unaccompanied, especially not in high stress events like this.
It's not that he had no reason, it's that his reasoning was flawed on all points. He had no legitimate reason, and no legitimate excuse.

Btw, in case you don't recall, I'm not anti gun at all. I am anti armed groups traveling the country intent on killing unarmed people they disagree with, even if those people are being mean and scary, even if they're stealing. If they're committing arson, well maybe, that can be mass murder.

If you find a still live version of him being chased by armed protesters away from his friends, or threatened, I would be interested in seeing them. I find it impossible to envision. It's not that I'm not open to new info, it's only that I've seen none that excuse his killings.

(Edit: I'm looking at it like this....If a 17 year old kid wants to do extreme mountain climbing with little to no training, gets on the mountain and gets panicked and, thinking it will make him safer to have two ropes disconnects his partner's harness and they die, he had a reason, but not a legitimate reason, and not an excuse. This kid wanted to do extreme policing totally untrained, he panicked, people died because of his panicked actions. It's really that simple to me.)

Sorry,but someone who's identity is supporting gun carriers isn't likely to give an unbiased report, but I'll read the Newsweek.

It makes zero sense that he's somehow blocks away from the parking lot he went to protect when he shot the man that threw a plastic bag in the head. How on earth did he get chased from his well armed group? I read reports that he was loudly arguing with the man he shot first, among others.

Shot fired in the air....so he didn't know who shot, from where, at what. Nothing. Might have been his fellow militia trying to chase away the crowd, right?

I've seen the video of him running, pointing his gun randomly, falling, shooting, and people risking their lives trying to take an active shooters weapon. Stomping someone running and gunning from a murder is acceptable imo. Shooting him with a handgun is ok if he doesn't submit to citizens arrest.

I have to agree with Bosuie. You do not have a right to murder people who are trying to stop you from fleeing a murder you just committed.

If he hadn't continued to try to flee, armed and aiming randomly, they wouldn't have had the need to use physical force to detain him. He did, they were all being good citizens trying to stop a murderer, imo. Restrained and totally within their legal rights.

So, the illegal firearm was on militia boys side, and militia boy used his.

Militia kid went looking for trouble, found it, panicked, murdered a few people and tried to kill a third, and fled the state without telling the police. He was not trying to do the right thing running towards police, he was trying to escape the crowd he had just shot at.

I don't think I said the mass looting and rioting were all fake antifa, I'm saying many of those starting it are. The ones who wander into peaceful protests and start smashing glass or starting fires, swinging at protesters that try to stop them, and running. The ones doing drive bys on police and crowds of protesters. The multiple cases of groups caught with bombs planning to blame blm for bombing police or schools or government buildings. Those are fake antifa boogaloo boys, right wing terrorists. They are nation wide, and they are trying hard to instigate rioting and looting, usually successfully.

In Kenosha, the violent killers were right wing. The looters, not so much. In that instance, no boogaloos needed to spark rioting, just more unarmed black men shot 7 times in the back feet from their children served nicely, the unarmed black man murdered by police near there 10 years ago didn't even get investigated, just ignored.

Again, chasing an active shooter and trying to disarm him is bravery and honorable. Shooting a baggie tosser isn't

The glok, not sure why you think it being loaded gets you excited, they don't work unloaded, wasn't used, and obviously should have been in self defense.

He was defending himself, against being caught. He wasn't defending himself when he left his defensive position to go blocks away and shoot an unarmed man with a plastic bag.
He put himself in a dangerous position, made it far more dangerous by murdering someone because he got scared over a baggie, then murdered his way out. I say he was 100% wrong from the moment he left home looking for trouble he could solve with his rifle, and made every bad decision he could from there, resulting in two dead men and a third injured.

Yes, I never expect you to make things up, but you took a position that seems deluded, based on facts I have not heard mentioned one bit, and that were mostly irrelevant, just throwing dirt at the victims. I see that some of what you said is corroborated by reports, but not that any of it excuses one bit of his behavior or makes the protesters in the wrong one whit. Thanks for the links.

If he was looking for help from police, why didn't he ask for any when he reached them? Why didn't he report the shooting? No, he went home and hid, hoping no one could identify him.

Again, doing whatever is necessary to apprehend a violent felon by citizens arrest is legal and proper, which is why I say emptying the glok would have been the right move until he was disarmed and subdued. Hitting him with a skateboard, 100% proper and legal.

I didn't buy anything. There are multiple videos that aren't being shown on most news sites.

Youtube is banning them as fast as they get posted.

Here is one: https://youtu.be/NSU9ZvnudFE

This is from Newsweek(https://www.newsweek.com/kyle-rittenhouse-sef-defense-murder-protests-1528301) who had access to the videos:

How the Kenosha shootings unfolded
In the wake of the shootings, several videos appeared on social media showing the moments before, during and after the first shooting took place.

In one video, Rittenhouse is seen being chased into a parking lot by several people while still armed with his gun.

One man then fires a gun into the air from several feet away from the 17-year-old before several others shots are fired.

In another clip from a different angle, one man seen chasing Rittenhouse appears to lunge at the 17-year-old before the suspect fires at least four times.

A body, later identified as Rosenbaum, is then seen on the ground and is assisted by another male. Rittenhouse appears to make a call on a cellphone before fleeing.

It is unclear why the 17-year-old was being chased in the first place. The parking lot is reportedly around several blocks away from the area he previously claimed to be protecting with the other armed men.

Later on, Rittenhouse is filmed being chased by more people down a residential street. He is seen stumbling and falling to the ground.

One person appears to stomp on him on the ground, before the 17-year-old fires twice, hitting Huber in the stomach and another man, Gaige Grosskreutz, who was carrying a handgun, in the arm.

According to the criminal complaint, an eyewitness video shows Rosenbaum chasing Rittenhouse and throwing what was ultimately determined to be a plastic bag at the suspect, not an incendiary device.

"Rosenbaum appears to be unarmed for the duration of this video," the document adds.

In response to Parkinson's tweet, New York Times columnist Jamelle Bosuie noted: "I have been seeing this everywhere on here. It is an explicit argument that if someone is trying to stop you after you killed someone, you can continue shooting and killing in 'self-defense.'

Parkinson added: "Why leave out during the 2nd shooting, after Rittenhouse trips, he was jumped by several men, including another armed protester, attacked by a skateboard—prior to firing more shots?"

The man holding the skateboard was Rittenberg's alleged second victim Huber, who died after being shot in the chest.

***You'll notice that even some of their videos were removed/banned***

I'm not saying the kid was in the right 100%. He definitely committed the crime of being under aged with a firearm. He shouldn't have listened to right wing calls to go defend property in a different state.

What we have is a kid who heard people shooting, got scared, a 'protester' threw what he thought was an incendiary device at him and he shot that person. He then tried to flee to the police line and you can read what else happened.

Here is the tweet that shows the survivor wishes he had just mag dumped his glock into the teen: https://twitter.com/mrandyngo/status/1299086141329563648

Gaige Grosskreutz, 26. Hes a member of the People’s Revolution Movement. He has numerous encounters with the police but I couldn't find a felony. This was his biggest charge: Go Armed with Firearm While Intoxicated, a class A misdemeanor, Wisconsin Statutes 941.20(1)(b).

Anthony Huber. https://wcca.wicourts.gov/caseSearchResults.html (for some reason it wont link, you can type his name in to see all, but here is one specific one https://wcca.wicourts.gov/caseDetail.html?caseNo=2014CF000057&countyNo=39&index=0)
Online arrest records show Huber was arrested several times on battery, drugs and other charges. He also had a case from 2012 where he was convicted of domestic abuse strangulation and suffocation and false imprisonment with a dangerous weapon, both felonies. Other charges – for second-degree recklessly endangering safety, battery, and disorderly conduct – were dismissed but read in.

Joseph Rosenbaum. https://twitter.com/musicandwhiskey/status/1298861484752035840/photo/1
https://www.rt.com/usa/499205-kenosha-shooting-victim-id/
https://www.bailbondshq.com/arizona/azdoc-inmate-JOSEPH/172556
https://inmatedatasearch.azcorrections.gov/PrintInmate.aspx?ID=172556
Rosenbaum had an open criminal case on battery, disorderly conduct and domestic abuse charges, according to the Wisconsin Circuit Court website. (https://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/ny-kenosha-victims-identified-as-anthony-huber-joseph-rosenbaum-20200827-zvrsv7fpqfftlmjyrtjrmg5wwa-story.html
)

As far as right wing people showing up and pretending to be Antifa, I suppose anything is possible. But most of all these looting and rioting things have been going on since all this shit broke loose months ago. I doubt very much that all of these 'peaceful protestors' are RW loonies. Clearly the 3 that were shot in Kenosha weren't and they were all part of the groups rioting...I mean 'protesting.

There are more videos if you want to find them. Shoot me, N Rosenbaum is seen attacking and throwing something at Kyle. You can see a gun fired as well by someone else. Videos show them chasing a fleeing person, who at that point is being attacked by them. Skater boi was beating him prone with a skateboard. 'Medic' Grosskreutz was carrying a fully fucking loaded Glock 17 and grabbing Kyle's rifle.

You know I don't make up shit like Bob does. But I do look in multiple places to find out what I can before I say something. Like I said, the kid fucked up, but I 100% believe in his mind he was defending himself and trying to reach the police for help.

I don't agree with him, but there are normal protesters and then there are Antifa people.

If you dig a bit deeper into the whole Kyle Rittenhouse thing, you find out a lot that is being flat out ignored.

1. The kid was protecting a business that had already been vandalized by Antifa.
2. He was pepper sprayed by Antifa 'protesters' for guarding the site.

3. Then a white pedophile started attacking him while saying the n word, "Cmon and shoot ME, N****!"

4. In the ensuing conflict, which included at least one gunshot from the Antifa folks, Kyle shot that guy and then tried to run to the police lines as multiple Antifa people tried to chase him down to beat him/take away his gun.
5. He tripped and a person with a skateboard, as well as a rap sheet for assaults a mile long, started beating him with the skateboard as he lay prone. This was the second person who got shot.

6. The final 'protester' was carrying a Glock 17 and later said (paraphrasing) "I wish I would have just mag dumped the Glock into him while he was laying there". This protester also had a massive rap sheet and shouldn't even have had the Glock, but in his intelligence he started trying to wrestle the AR-15 from Kyle...from the business end. He was the last person shot and lost a bicep.

So, in short, a scared kid who shouldn't have been there was attacked, shot at, and mauled by several 'peaceful' protesters. He defended himself and then tried to run to the police, but they weren't having that, so some more people got shot.

Now he will probably get sentenced to life in a highly politicized trial because he stood up and tried to guard property that 'peaceful Antifa protesters' were trying to burn to the ground.

What amazed me wasn't chasing balls down stairs: it's plucking the one mouse (which I'd not even noticed) out from the balls.

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I openly admit I’m plenty ignorant on the background to all this.

My opinion though lies the same whether it’s this guy treated as he was in the video, or if the situation was reversed and the lone guy had a BLM sign instead, same standard applies. You had a very large crowd around him not content to shout him down, but intent on using force to chase him off and trying to again use force to take his sign from him. Thats over the line and I don’t care who is doing the pushing or what the sign actually says. As above, if the sign or message is itself a promotion of violence, then its the police and court system you want to pull in, not the mob or vigilantism.

The little background I read from your links though suggests the large crowd had been there repeatedly with the same purpose of getting the gallery/HQ shutdown. Seems awful likely to me guy with sign was then standing outside said gallery and all the more aught have the right to stand near it with a simple sign, without being dismissed as the one ‘invading’ or stealing the protestors platform. To be honest most of the discussion about giving or blocking platforms reeks to me of just renaming stuff so folks can duck the well worn arguments in support of free speech.

Well, we’ve finally found an area where I lean more left/liberal than you do.

I hate how little evidence seems required to class someone ‘alt-right’ and equally how little effort is needed to re-class anyone ‘alt-right’ as a fascist, racist and nazi. It’s beyond intellectual laziness, and stinks of modern day witch huntery sometimes.

For the video here though, I can even hypothetically cede that all too you, and lets just pretend the guy in the video is 100% a committed, public Hitler enthusiast.

Even then, if all he wants to do is stand in the street with a sign, as he is in the video, then I lean left/liberal enough that I still believe you then meet him with words and counter protest, reveal his ideas as the vile poison they are. You do NOT get to use force and violence to chase him off by shoving him out, physically making him leave, and trying to steal his sign or assault him.

If he crosses the line of messages that promote violence, then the police get to use force to bring him in front of a judge and charge him. Angry mobs crushing dissenting opinion though is NOT the way forwards.

I've now seen videos of 6 masked white people being the instigators of vandalism like this, 5 were stopped or chased away by protesters, one was "working" with police supervision and tagging what police told them to paint, like "BLM".

There is an effort by some as yet unidentified group of white people who are trying to do damage and spark riots that black peaceful protesters are being blamed for and shot over. It's unclear if it's antifa, racist Trumpsters, or both.

Depends on the type of bear and why it's advancing / whether it's attacking! Generally it's good to calmly make yourself known and look large, as you say. This one already seemed aware and curious, but not necessarily threatening, so provoking it probably wouldn't be a great idea. It's a myth that running or trying to move away will activate a chase, especially if the bear is in territory with food - moving away while watching the bear and grouping together to seem larger was the right thing to do. Should the bear actually attack: If the bear's black, fight back (and/or call its bluff charge). If it's brown, lay down (play dead for brown or grizzly bears).

Goddamnit, Uncle Chuck, he was RIGHT THERE and you let him get away!

'tho with his tornado-chasing hobby, I'm sure you'll get him next time!

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