I support the discouragement of the wearing of Burkas. An outright ban, by the government seems harsh though.

What's going to happen if the above burka-clad driver is stopped by a male police officer and asked for her driver's license? Is she going to remove her burka to prove that it is her license? Or, is society going to have to pay to support her religious habit by providing a means to accomodate this fetish? Similarly, if I walked into a convenience store, or bank, with my face completely concealed, I would expect to not receive service. These places take security pretty seriously. They have cameras to record the faces of those they serve, just in case.

Burkas, above providing modesty, provide anonymity. It's my opinion that anonymity is a very dangerous thing in a community. A burka is, by design, an impediment to functional social interaction between a women and anybody not of her household. To me this is a handicap to a fully functioning society.

I love the Sift. Comments like this one are a big reason why.

Thank you.

In reply to this comment by NinjaInHeat:
Same issue as that video way back about a french woman not being allowed to wear a Burka to school, this is so sad, and again sadder still are some of the responses here, just goes to show you that social democrats in power can be just as forceful about their ways as the republicans that are usually the subjects of rants here.

Most of you apply logic to these issues in the manner of asking yourselves: "do I like Burkas?" and then, "do I think this fits my ideal for humankind" and you come to the conclusion that it does, which is just sad because your spend half your time on this site ranting about the outrages of having your freedoms taken from you. This isn't about humankind, it's about a free society, free societies need certain rules to function.

If this was a law proposing to, say, outlaw porn. How many of you would claim that the positive/negative implications for humankind have nothing to do with the ruling? That it's a matter of personal freedoms.

And to all you geniuses who keep dismissing the whole Burka issue because "it's the will of Muslim men forced on their women", grow the fuck up, I could apply that argument to pretty much any adult behavior that is attributed to traditional upbringing, at least be mature enough to accept that regardless of how negative you perceive a behavior to be, by the time these people grow up these -are- their ways, your rhetoric of "this is stupid" is meaningless to them, if you honestly believe it is our place as a society to "show them the light" then at least be honest enough to admit that you're not interested in democracy, you're Fascists.

Same issue as that video way back about a french woman not being allowed to wear a Burka to school, this is so sad, and again sadder still are some of the responses here, just goes to show you that social democrats in power can be just as forceful about their ways as the republicans that are usually the subjects of rants here.

Most of you apply logic to these issues in the manner of asking yourselves: "do I like Burkas?" and then, "do I think this fits my ideal for humankind" and you come to the conclusion that it does, which is just sad because your spend half your time on this site ranting about the outrages of having your freedoms taken from you. This isn't about humankind, it's about a free society, free societies need certain rules to function.

If this was a law proposing to, say, outlaw porn. How many of you would claim that the positive/negative implications for humankind have nothing to do with the ruling? That it's a matter of personal freedoms.

And to all you geniuses who keep dismissing the whole Burka issue because "it's the will of Muslim men forced on their women", grow the fuck up, I could apply that argument to pretty much any adult behavior that is attributed to traditional upbringing, at least be mature enough to accept that regardless of how negative you perceive a behavior to be, by the time these people grow up these -are- their ways, your rhetoric of "this is stupid" is meaningless to them, if you honestly believe it is our place as a society to "show them the light" then at least be honest enough to admit that you're not interested in democracy, you're Fascists.

I think a lot of you are missing the point. This is not an issue about what the burka stands for. This is about whether or not government should be allowed to tell you what to wear. If they were trying to ban the yarmulke or wearing jewelry of the crucifiction there would be no question as to the absurdity of that law. Just because you don't like it does not mean you should be able to tell other people they can't practice it. It's about governmental power, not how you feel about Muslims and burkas. They are trying to tell a specific group of people what they are allowed or not allowed to wear in public. That is repulsive. Again, it's not about what the burka represents, it's about government control.

I thought about Asian school uniforms in relation to government dictating what people can wear but, that's what they have to wear to school. Their government isn't telling them what to wear outside of that institution so, I don't think it's the same.

I'm with sage on this.

I can't stand the Burka, It really is there because women are "mens" property, not to be looked upon by anybody except their master, his slaves, and immediate family.

There are those who say that it's to protect women, and make sure men love them for who they are rather then how they look. It's a very, VERY romantic lie, because even at prayer masses, women still have to sit behind men so men don't get distracted looking at the womens asses.

I don't care how the women have been brainwashed about wearing the burka, blatant sexism is just a damned no-no in my book. I fully support the right to ban them, because in all honesty, I see this as the lesser of two evils. Yes, it's taking away a decision, but it's taking that away to actually give more freedom to the women. Maybe they like the veil, who knows, but there's probably a good deal of women who don't, and at least now they finally have an excuse saying "No, I can't wear that anymore, it's illegal." To which they'll probably recieve a beating. Yay muslims and your love of womens rights.

dogma isn't divinity
want to be part of French society, these are the tennants they hold to be true, you must as well
if they allow Burkas, then Muslims must also accept that women aren't FORCED to wear them in French society (alot already do... they aren't the issue, its those that would beat/rape a woman for not wearing one)

if everyone started wearing ski-masks in public, would people have issue with it? i'm sure criminals would love it... anonimity usually leads to people behaving as poorly as they think they can get away with

tradition/dogma isn't inherently good... ask any Indian woman who has had their face devestated with acid

the Burka is a symbol of feminine repression; if maintaining it is so important to some people, they should maybe realize France isn't the place for them... there's plenty of Arabic countries that enforce it still, and things like public stonings and sanctioned rape

>> ^hpqp:

>> ^Yogi:
I like the idea of governments in the 2000's deciding people can no longer have a culture. Good for them...hey next maybe you should ban any sort of national identity.

Yeah, it's like how in Spain the great latino-macho culture is being suppressed by stricter you-can't-beat-up-your-wife laws...


That kinda proves my point...just because a woman wears a burka doesn't mean it's not their choice or that they're getting beaten every night. Last I checked not too many Spainish women wear burkas.

There's a lot of misinformation and reactionary BS going around these days. I say you let them do what they want unless they're hurting someone...forcing society into a dress code is stupid.

>> ^Yogi:

I like the idea of governments in the 2000's deciding people can no longer have a culture. Good for them...hey next maybe you should ban any sort of national identity.

Yeah, it's like how in Spain the great latino-macho culture is being suppressed by stricter you-can't-beat-up-your-wife laws...

I don't think women having to cover themselves completely up because some men fear they cannot control their urges should they see her face is a culture I really want to save. Still, its a dumb and terribly unsubtle way of dealing with the problem. It won't stop people from wearing the Burka and it only really serves to widen an already large divide between Native and Arab French.

I don't like burkas in general, they're ugly imo. It's still a pretty thorny issue. Banning them outright is not really practical, it still comes down to education to dissuade people from wearing them so they can see that certain aspects of their belief system doesn't make sense.

>> ^Sagemind:

I'll stop before I progress into an all-out-Rant - suffice to say, I'm against Burkas.

So am I. But I'm also against the unnecessary restriction of the right to choose. There are means of dealing with burkas (and other Islamic issues) culturally and politically without making it an issue for the law. Sarkozy is just making a desperate appeal to the far-right.

This is a great way for convicts to travel undetected.

These versions of dress are demeaning to any human being.
The fact that there are women willing to fight for it is a testament to how damaging the practice is.
They've become so accustomed and brainwashed to the idea that they will fight to remain property of another person - the husband or male head of the household.

What are the real reasons for wanting to keep it? To avoid punishment in the after-world? To adhere to rules made by men in a patriarchal society. Rules made by men to keep woman bound and chaste?

In the world that these women live, there is no other reality, only subservience. To see a world without the man to provide would, in their eyes, be a bleak existence since in that same society, woman are not allowed to provide for themselves and if they try (or become widowed and need to provide for themselves out of necessity), they are victimized and shunned.

I'll stop before I progress into an all-out-Rant - suffice to say, I'm against Burkas.

Yes if women would just wear burkas all the men wouldn't be raping them. It's their own fault for showing their bare hair, what did they expect? .

I think you're narrowing it down too far. The DRC is far from being an Islamic country (90% Christian of some denomination, 5% Muslim), and yet it is not only oppressive but down-right brutal against its women, by my accounts the worst in the world. Rape is a routine instrument of war by government and militia forces alike, while the vast majority of work is done by them.

Whether you look at Christianity or Islam, both have clearly misogynistic and oppressive elements which are simply ignored in modern societies. I think violence/oppression of women is much better explained by a lack of individual rights and a consistent rule of law and civil society to enforce it.>> ^Deano:

Let's drill down a bit further - many of these women are oppressed in Islamic societies. I'd suggest bringing that up as something to tackle given that about one-fifth of the world's population follow Islam. Mind you I can't see them having the balls to make him walk out in a burka.
BTW Daniel Craig is worryingly scary dressed as a woman.

Let's drill down a bit further - many of these women are oppressed in Islamic societies. I'd suggest bringing that up as something to tackle given that about one-fifth of the world's population follow Islam. Mind you I can't see them having the balls to make him walk out in a burka.

BTW Daniel Craig is worryingly scary dressed as a woman.