I'm not OK with armed kids shooting up any neighborhood.

If you're presenting Rittenhouse as such a kid, that's a bad faith argument. There is no evidence that 'shooting up the neighborhood' was in any way his motivation when he positioned himself in that neighborhood.

All public information points to him being there to discourage destructive elements (such as armed looters) from taking action in that neighborhood.

The ostensibly guilty parties being a hard target doesn't transform innocent easy targets into valid targets.

Most damage is done to private businesses and of vehicles (with the odd unfortunate being beaten to a pulp on the street).
Minneapolis had homes and churches damaged. I can't speak to homes in other locations because I haven't read up on them.




Property wise:
Property takes money to acquire.
Money takes time to acquire.
Time requires life.

(Not all insurance covers 'angry mob')

If it takes you 3 months to work to purchase something, and someone destroys it, they are taking 3 months of working life away from you. Unless they can refund you that life time, that's life time lost forever.

Reality is : Property is only 'just property' when it's not your own property.
If you can't defend property with force, then people are simply free to show up and take everything you have, and you just have to accept it. I don't know anyone who is ok with that (I doubt you are ok with it happening to you, but maybe I'm wrong).

Generally, I empathize with innocent people. So I lean towards the property owners in these cases.

-scheherazade

Thanks to BSR for having this posted. This is the sort of stuff that needs to get more airtime and eyeballs.

I think that pairs to the worst crime the left has been involved in related to the dumpster fire that is today. The entire notion of de-platforming or silencing 'offensive' speech, and that Universities have if anything been leading the way. Universities need to instead be having guys like the one here getting their views known more broadly, and then point out loudly what is considered bad and dangerous about them. More importantly, to also point out how closely it aligns with Trump and his rallying cries.

When the left could have been discrediting this filth, they have instead been accomplishing the opposite by actively rallying moderates to 'defend' the freedom of speech of these guys.

The passive majority has been watching for a long time as advocates on the left have used force and violence to disrupt speech they don't like. Now, cities are burning and despite it being for entirely other reasons, you have a lot of middle america only seeing the same angry mob of leftists at the same stuff again as before. Demand everyone do things their way or violence will be used. The worst/scariest thing to me is the Dems still seem confused by how people aren't flocking to them in the face of Trumps malice. They somehow can not fathom that there are an awful lot of right leaning people honestly worried that their only choice is between a Trump they loath in most everyway, but on the other side and angry mob of leftists willing to use violence on anyone that doesn't conform. If Trump wins the next election I'll be sickened, but also entirely unsurprised.

I'm curious why you didn't ask Bob that question.

He's not changing any minds, he's smug and self righteous, vainglorious, trolling, and wrong factually at least 90% of the time. Why don't you think he's creating liberals digging their heels in to any existing liberal leanings?

I can understand why you all still respond to @bobnight33. It's satisfying to smugly respond to him who, effectively, is a real live straw man. It makes you feel righteous (and frankly, it's pretty easy).

But really, Bob's been around for 11 years and has not conceded literally anything.

You're not changing his mind. Obviously. Why do you keep trying?

If anything, a new person who is (admittedly, astoundingly) undecided will see your vainglorious responses and dig their heels in to any existing conservative leanings.

I have Gamefly that gets delivered from LA to N California. It usually takes 3-4 days to get delivered, and up to 6-7 days to ship back (no explanation why returns always take longer).

The last two games I returned at the beginning of August took over three weeks to get to LA.

My guess is that the LA sorting facility is one that had their sorting machine removed. They're Democratically leaning in a blue state, that's who they targeted, because it's not random, it's intentional and political.

I actually agree with Trump about a do over. If he wins, we need one, because he can't win without massive cheating and fraud.

You know I won't click on your links since you sent me to that virus hosting site. How about name an instance and I'll investigate myself, I certainly won't trust your sources....especially when it comes from a Trump tweet. Get real, I expect another "professional opinion" like the doctor that supports hydroxy, and alien DNA in medicine, lizard people, and demon sperm as the cause of all gynecologic issues, not facts...he hates facts, they never agree with his uninformed opinion.....but he loves the uneducated, they'll believe his insane bullshit and never check for themselves.

HOLY FUCKING SHEEP SHIT YOU MORON.... I checked first then read it....it doesn't say this was fraud, much less democratic fraud, it makes no mention of political affiliation, but based on recent history chances are great that, if it's fraud, it's Republicans. How long were these few dead people dead before the election? Could they have been alive when the vote was mailed in? Doesn't say. How many cases are considered fraud by the election board? None I could see.

What it did say was many didn't receive their ballot in time to vote, or at all, because Trump and friends hobbled the mail services causing delays that suppressed thousands of votes. It also said most votes that were disqualified had issues with either the signature, something Trump claims isn't being checked, or the section for someone to deliver the ballot for the voter, something else he claimed isn't checked. Kinda blows his claim that fraud is rampant and unchecked when his evidence is the votes that didn't pass the checking they did of them. His solution, suppress tens of millions more votes. Evidence of Republican vote suppression, not democrats vote fraud.
A vote denied is a vote stolen.

This article actually makes the point that any possible vote by mail fraud will be caught, not that it's a problem.

This is Trump and friends interfering in the election by your estimation, Bob. If it's fraud because people didn't get their ballots, or they were delivered too late to count, and they didn't get them because the post office is slowing down at Trump's order, that's Trump and co. committing election fraud.

Not true, mail in ballots are exactly the same as absentee. There's never been a distinction made before this election. There are multiple states that have had universal mail in voting for decades.
There is no difference in the processes, despite what Trump and Fox have told you. They're liars, you know it. The only difference is you don't have to lie about your ability to get to a polling place with universal mail in voting. The article Trump had you link to proves it conclusively....those votes were disqualified because they did check signatures and more.
Trump's entire family votes mail in, even though they have no reason to. They're all registered in multiple states too....from what Trump says, that's proof they're committing vote fraud.

Lest you forget, the CDC stated unequivocally that mail in, not in person voting is the ONLY safe way to hold an election this year.
Lest you forget, Trump has said unequivocally that if every eligible voter voted, Republicans would disappear instantly. The ONLY way for Republicans to win is to disenfranchise millions of voters. That is why, when logic and reason say the post office should be expanding operations to prepare for weeks of high mailings, but instead they are cutting hours, removing 10%+ of their sorting capacity and removing an unknown number of mail collection boxes, already creating massive backlogs in normal mail service of weeks to months, making them incapable of fulfilling huge numbers of contracts they have which will cost them package delivery business they desperately need to survive when they should be ramping up. Only a brain dead slug can't see that's intentional, especially when Trump goes on TV and says it is, intentionally done to suppress the Democratic and independent vote because if they vote, he'll lose.

Trump refuses to fund even normal operation at the USPS because it would make delivering ballots easier.
You know he agreed to fund the post office, including money needed to greenlight universal mail in voting, if Democrats give him tens of billions for tax cuts and pet projects for himself, right? So, he's saying he will allow election fraud for a price? Or is it more likely he's willing to give up a dishonest and failing political ploy for a bribe?
You know this is tax payer money meant to fund civil services, right, not some handout? It seems you think funding essential civil services is a gift in your mind, not an obligation. So you'll stand behind Biden if he halts all funding for police and military until they get their act together, right? (Not that he plans any such thing, I'm making a point about your hypocrisy as a defense for intentional election disruption and massive voter suppression as a campaign strategy.)

The international community disagrees. When only 10% of votes are cast this election, the world will declare the election a fraud, so will 90% of Americans. Talk about dividing the nation for one man's gain. That's why we think you're Russian, Americans care more about the nation than their cult leaders.

The check and balance comes at registration, and again when the vote is counted....just like absentee votes. Trump is lying when he claims they aren't validated.

Trump disrupting mail service in any way possible to deny voters a chance to vote safely, also closing thousands of polling places (mostly in democratic leaning areas) from lack of staff IS election rigging....he has said specifically on television it is done to sway the election results by suppressing a majority of votes, leaving only the method he polls best with, unsafe in person voting which the CDC said clearly is a recipe for disaster and will kill people. He doesn't care a whit that hundreds more Americans will die and thousands be disabled because he forces them together to fulfill their civic duties, not his problem because he's mailing his vote in (so he has time to go golfing, watch TV, and tweet all day, not because he can't vote in person btw).

what I find crazy about this is he got off the wrong side of his bike, it would have been a lot faster/easier to get off on the side it was leaning towards and looks like it would have been a better escape route from that backhoe. Granted he would have been killed by the SUV, but he didn't see that coming.

Boarding late only makes sense until others follow suit, then it becomes a contest for the last to board, and only if you have no carry on (or one that fits under seat).
It's also quite selfish, you're going to walk past and breathe on all those seated passengers just like you tried to avoid for yourself...and you would make others wait for the privilege.
If you follow directions and board in order from the back of the plane front, no one walks past those already seated....and no one has to wait for row 5 to get settled before row 23-6 can board and sit.
Also, no one has to wait for the last to board guy in row 23 to search through 15 full overhead compartments, leaning over and breathing over 15 rows of passengers while checking each bin before having their carry on checked anyway causing further delay.

Well, we’ve finally found an area where I lean more left/liberal than you do.

I hate how little evidence seems required to class someone ‘alt-right’ and equally how little effort is needed to re-class anyone ‘alt-right’ as a fascist, racist and nazi. It’s beyond intellectual laziness, and stinks of modern day witch huntery sometimes.

For the video here though, I can even hypothetically cede that all too you, and lets just pretend the guy in the video is 100% a committed, public Hitler enthusiast.

Even then, if all he wants to do is stand in the street with a sign, as he is in the video, then I lean left/liberal enough that I still believe you then meet him with words and counter protest, reveal his ideas as the vile poison they are. You do NOT get to use force and violence to chase him off by shoving him out, physically making him leave, and trying to steal his sign or assault him.

If he crosses the line of messages that promote violence, then the police get to use force to bring him in front of a judge and charge him. Angry mobs crushing dissenting opinion though is NOT the way forwards.

Apologies, didn't mean to misrepresent you. We've debated things before and you seemed to lean to no cop is a good cop because there are so many bad ones guilt be association and failure to clean things up makes them all bad. You'd also said up thread to fire all active officers.

I'll cease trying to word how you feel on it, I just wanted to demonstrate by counter example that not everybody means 'reform' when they say "defund". At a minimum , the degree of 'reform' varies from change some laws and regulations to fire them and start over from scratch.

My comment of being ruled by our 'betters' was meant as a sarcastic dig on them and their abject failure in letting things rot this far and doing nothing.

Finally, my comment on public opinion on solutions being non-uniform was mostly to emphasize that as just normal, and the current status quo is just so unacceptable that it is unifying people from varied points of view to stand up against it. The most important point being that declaring, see nothing will satisfy the mob because they can't agree what to do is a twisted deception and the truth is people want things to be better than they are, and there is as you pointed out tonnes of common sense ways to go about that,

I support the police and lean very heavily to giving them the benefit of the doubt in the absence of other evidence.

From someone with that point of view, you're comment is providing cover for the racists and monsters infecting the police.

If you watch this video and all you can see is someone not following police commands with adequate speed and accuracy then you are blind.

Can you not see the guy has his hands up from the start, and can you not hear him shouting how he is scared? Did you not see his Grandma struggling with her walking cane to make it out to try and protect him?

You have a portion of your community that is terrified of police interactions, and the bad behavior that has led to that fear has not come from the community, but the racist and dirty cops on the force that need weeding out.

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I believe your typical American, no matter their political persuasion, cares about his fellow American. I'm sure you agree that trying to paint either side as demons who don't care is nonsense.

People shouldn't care about what type of guns or the number of guns - there seems to be no correlation between gun ownership rates and homicide rates in the USA:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state#/media/File:Gun_Ownership_Related_to_Gun_Violence_by_State_(United_States).sv
g

(the line of best fit would have a positive slope if there was a correlation)

There is a correlation between weapon type and firearm murder - pistols (of all sorts) account for approximately 89% of all firearm murders (where a firearm type is specified in the police report). Rifles (of all sorts) are about 5%. Shotguns (of all sorts) are about 3%.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls

This wiki has better data than you presented - you can isolate gun violence from other violence:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state

"Odd, you seem to be saying you're afraid of the violent, gun toting democrats who are 99% more ready and better armed for violent political civil war than Republicans....but you also claim Republicans have all the guns and are better shots and ready to go.....which is it?"

The data says that Republican voters (or those that lean that way) have a firearm ownership rate of double that of Democrats.

If the majority of terrorist attacks in the USA are by right wing terrorists as you suggest, then it seems odd you'd say in the same breath that the left are ready for violent political civil war. If they have less arms and less willingness to engage in violence (which I actually believe is a good thing) then they are hardly "99% more ready and better armed".

The military voted Republican at about twice the rate of voting Democrat at the last election. So the left doesn't have that going for them either.

From NYT article https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/03/opinion/sunday/this-is-why-uma-thurman-is-angry.html?referer=https://t.co/3KI4YYryAt?amp=1

In the famous scene where she’s driving the blue convertible to kill Bill — the same one she put on Instagram on Thanksgiving — she was asked to do the driving herself.

But she had been led to believe by a teamster, she says, that the car, which had been reconfigured from a stick shift to an automatic, might not be working that well.

She says she insisted that she didn’t feel comfortable operating the car and would prefer a stunt person to do it. Producers say they do not recall her objecting.

“Quentin came in my trailer and didn’t like to hear no, like any director,” she says. “He was furious because I’d cost them a lot of time. But I was scared. He said: ‘I promise you the car is fine. It’s a straight piece of road.’” He persuaded her to do it, and instructed: “ ‘Hit 40 miles per hour or your hair won’t blow the right way and I’ll make you do it again.’ But that was a deathbox that I was in. The seat wasn’t screwed down properly. It was a sand road and it was not a straight road.” (Tarantino did not respond to requests for comment.)

Thurman then shows me the footage that she says has taken her 15 years to get. “Solving my own Nancy Drew mystery,” she says.

It’s from the point of view of a camera mounted to the back of the Karmann Ghia. It’s frightening to watch Thurman wrestle with the car, as it drifts off the road and smashes into a palm tree, her contorted torso heaving helplessly until crew members appear in the frame to pull her out of the wreckage. Tarantino leans in and Thurman flashes a relieved smile when she realizes that she can briefly stand.

Uma Thurman said she didn't want to drive this car. She said she had been warned that there were issues with it. She felt she had to do it anyway. It took her some 15 years to get footage of the crash. (Note: There is no audio.)
“The steering wheel was at my belly and my legs were jammed under me,” she says. “I felt this searing pain and thought, ‘Oh my God, I’m never going to walk again,’” she says. “When I came back from the hospital in a neck brace with my knees damaged and a large massive egg on my head and a concussion, I wanted to see the car and I was very upset. Quentin and I had an enormous fight, and I accused him of trying to kill me. And he was very angry at that, I guess understandably, because he didn’t feel he had tried to kill me.”

Even though their marriage was spiraling apart, Hawke immediately left the Abbey of Gethsemani in Kentucky to fly to his wife’s side.

“I approached Quentin in very serious terms and told him that he had let Uma down as a director and as a friend,” he told me. He said he told Tarantino, “Hey, man, she is a great actress, not a stunt driver, and you know that.” Hawke added that the director “was very upset with himself and asked for my forgiveness.”

Two weeks after the crash, after trying to see the car and footage of the incident, she had her lawyer send a letter to Miramax, summarizing the event and reserving the right to sue.

Miramax offered to show her the footage if she signed a document “releasing them of any consequences of my future pain and suffering,” she says. She didn’t.