I thought it's more two wrongs exposing an established and growing wrong.

No, if they COMMUNICATE what they're doing, and do that well, it's not bad communication, and they did. It's not an objective fact, it's only your opinion. Sorry. "Bad" is a subjective word, not objective.

No sir, Westborough is not more accurate. They claim to be Christian, followers of Jesus, but ignore the new testament entirely. That is the antithesis of accurate. Because they lie and claim something doesn't make it accurate, their actions contradict their claims every time to a much greater degree than these Satanists (who I don't think denied the existence of Satan, they could be incredibly devout for all we know, they're simply clear that their main current objective is to stop the government's illegal and immoral support of Christianity to the exclusion of other "faiths", which in no way denies belief in Satan and embodies their churches tenets, unlike "Christian" anti abortionists who compromise their own religious morals to tell others how they must think and live).

Perhaps you are simply confused about what "Satanist" means?
Because you have a specific definition in mind doesn't make it correct .....if you can call Westborough "Christian" then obviously your standards are sub basement low, and anyone is whatever they claim, any evidence to the contrary be damned.

Again, when they COMMUNICATE both their actions and intent, that's not bad communication just because you don't like it, and certainly not just because you make assumptions about their beliefs and their zealotry.

That just sounds an awful lot like two wrongs making a right.

Claiming an established well defined name for your group/association, and then proceeding to define your group as something completely different is BAD communication. That is an objective fact, not something that varies depending upon your subjective POV. Whether that bad communication also has some morality attached to it sounds more like what your addressing, which is something I was saying nothing about.

Having groups like Westboro Baptists claiming to be either Christian or Baptist is like you said much the same. Morality wise, infinitely worse. Communication wise they might arguably be more accurate, although their words and actions look nothing like the Christ they claim to follow, I do understand that their group at least claims to truly believe in and follow their God. Secular Satanists apparently neither worship nor even believe in the existence of Satan, making the moniker more misleading. Their push for religious neutrality/separation of church and state however place them as far superior morally. Again, these examples are laden with my opinion regarding morality.

Morality aside though, you honestly can't say that claiming a name for your group with a strongly established meaning and definition isn't bad communication when your group shares neither the beliefs(grammar edit) nor practices of that established meaning and definition.

Maintaining a healthy separation of church and state is a conservative position.
Learn your own politics. *facepalm

Duh.

Edit: of the 3 groups, which had permits....natives
Of the 3 groups, which was still performing closing ceremonies of a permitted March...natives.
Of the 3 groups, which refrained from insulting the other two....natives.
Of the 3 groups, which tried to defuse rather than escalate....natives.

But the native elder calmly trying to defuse the escalating situation is the one in the wrong in your opinion.


The inevitable attack was against the Israelites, because the kids were getting irate, taking off their clothes, jumping around like madmen, and screaming insults at the Israelites. Before he came in drumming, it sure looked like violence was likely.

I watched it as many times as I'm going to, which was many, and when the elder stops there's plenty of room between everyone, then the kids move closer from every direction.

Look, you can bend over backwards to pretend the kids weren't also instigating, or being rude, or racist, but I must admit I'm floored people can see a gang of white kids gleefully tomahawk chopping and hi-ya-hi-ya-ing undeniably derisively at a native elder (veteran, but who knew that there) while smirking inches from his face as he's surrounded by their jeering buddies and instead of admitting what they see with their own eyes and hear with their ears, pretend the irate screaming kids were being respectful angels not disrespectful racist assholes. I see and hear what's on the video, you find excuses for it and pretend you don't hear racism in their racist taunting.

I'm most floored chaperones on a church field trip didn't just let the kids respond to the provocation of the Israelites (which is moronic and exactly what they wanted), they encouraged it and did nothing when it turned racist against the elder, just egged them on more. So much for Christ's teachings....fuck what he said if someone's teasing you, right? Christ said take an eye for an eye....oh wait, no he didn't.

Where i live, you can't get a cab or Uber for $15.....but you can get drunk or high for that pretty much anywhere.

Odd, I've never heard the church speak out against vasectomies.
Mine didn't cause my Sodam and Gamorrahn sex life, it just kept me from having kids that would have ended it. ;-)

Edit: side note....why is there a "crime" of sodomy, but not gamorrahy? ....@shinyblurry ?

Yes, he gets between them, and the kids then close in and surround him....in a group.....hi-ya-hi-ya-ing, woo-boo-boo-boo-boo-ing and tomahawk chopping.
He is also on multiple video interviews saying they did block his ceremony, which was permitted, and it's undeniable that the kids and black Israelites interrupted the ceremony that started at the reflecting pool and was supposed to end at the top of the steps the kids took over. That said, he didn't get between the other two groups to continue the closing ceremony, he did it to separate and distract them and instead became the target for both groups.

I disagree 100%. Sane people did this to stop the rapidly escalating anger between the kids and (disgusting) black Israelites before the kids attacked the Israelites, which seemed inevitable because no one was controlling the kids (or the small group of Black Israelites) and the kids were getting more and more rowdy. A few insane people say the kids weren't being racist or insulting, and that's absolutely asinine and completely divorced from reality. They were intentionally insultingly racist....and towards a different group than the group that insulted them.

Watched the long version from 1:11-3:11, no shoving into the kids, no Phillips, that's the black Israelites screaming their nonsense at natives, disrupting their ceremony.
So I checked 1:11:00-1:13:00....when he comes in.....and note smirk boy is not there, he gets into the stationary elders face later. It's bears mentioning that his tactics worked too, he instantly calmed the situation and diverted the hopping mad boy's attention from attacking the Israelites to deriding the natives. Even the Israelites are impressed. Not sure what point you thought that makes, but it's not yours.

He was absolutely not aggressive in the least, and did not push or even touch a single person that I saw, and stopped in front of the kids who quickly surround him. Why are you lying?

Smirk boy might have an argument if he was alone, but smirking in the man's face for nearly 10 minutes while hundreds of your friends dance around you shouting insults and laughing derisively is not an attempt to defuse, it's a clear and obvious power play he thought he won until the shit storm hit....now he's trying to claim he wasn't being disrespectful....I call bullshit. He knew exactly what he was doing, and expected to be big man on campus for it....probably is. Do you think he would find it respectful if a black kid smirked inches from his mother's face as she performed (or any time) while his friends taunted her incessantly? Doubt it.

The next March for life is probably going to end with thousands of blm activists, possibly claiming they were just insulted by white supremacists, so any disruptions, insults, or rudeness towards the anti choice March will be ignored. Turnabout is fair play, and rapid escalation is the MO of this century.

Too bad the adults in the church group decided to egg the kids on rather than turn the other cheek. No surprise, the school and republicans claim the kids did nothing at all wrong. 100% certain they would think it's wrong if aimed at them, or done by non white non Christians, or even white kids in Hillary hats.

Worst for these kids, they are now poster children FOR PRO abortion groups.....their new commercial could be any portion of these videos captioned "your unwanted kid could be one like these, with their public actions drawing death threats, property threats, and unending verbal assault to your family and communities".

So much for helping their cause by attending the march. All they've done is expose the utter disrespect Christians accept from their children towards others, even defend. My parents would have skinned me alive and offered the pelt as contrition if I acted that way towards an adult, and we don't believe in Jebus.

RFlagg, do you realize nearly 1/3 of the worlds population identifies as Christian? I’m not sure why you think the Republican party is the standard bearer for Christ in the world, but the majority of Christians don’t live in Western democracies. About a quarter billion of them face daily persecution from hostile governments. You are grossly mischaracterizing the faith by conflating it with the worst elements of the American church, which actually in many Christian circles is commonly referred to as the church of Laodicia. Have you ever read Christs letter to the church of Laodicia? Its in Revelation chapter 3.

So you may be shocked to find out that a lot of Christians will agree with you that the American church is backslidden. I also agree with you that too many Christians are too political and have said and done things which are morally repugnant.

I support this president, I also supported the president before him. Christians are commanded in Romans 13 to support and pray for our leaders. It doesn’t mean that we have to agree with them. I certainly didn’t agree with how the church as a whole overlooked quite a bit about Trump because of their desire to win a political victory. That doesn’t mean that any Christian who voted for or supports Trump is anything like what you described, so filled with hate. Many of us hate what is happening to the country, but we don’t hate the people who are doing it.

Your testimony about finding Christ revolves around attending church services and watching TBN and Fox News. Your reason for falling away stemmed from your disillusionment and disgust with the republican party. All of that is really the epitome of cultural Christianity. You may have had an experience, or felt some emotions, but you weren’t changed. There are millions of people sitting in pews all across America who are in the same situation; completely lost and thinking they are okay. This is the unfortunate side-effect of post-Christian culture; everyone has heard of Jesus and no one knows how to be saved or even what that means. They just know that if they add Jesus to their life, they will somehow make it to Heaven. So they just slap a Jesus sticker on everything they’re doing. They are still the same old rotten people, but now Jesus is with them and justifies all of their bad behavior. That’s cultural Christianity. Christianity is spiritual, not cultural.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God

You need to be born again, RFlagg, and that didn’t happen to you. It can happen to you if you surrender your life to Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. Attending church services won’t make that happen for you. Attending church doesn’t make you a Christian. Watching Christian programming on TV, conservative news shows, and agreeing with creation science doesn’t make you a Christian. You become a Christian when you repent of your sin and fully surrender your life to Jesus Christ. It is at that moment that He will make you into a new person. It’s so simple a child could understand it but man has overcomplicated it to the point of totally distorting the message of the gospel.

I think this statement illustrates your issue “If being in Heaven means being around the people who say they will go, Trump supporters, then Hell is a billion times better.”

You’re looking to man instead of God. It’s God that you have to contend with, not man. As a person who has rejected Christ, you are under Gods judgment and that is why you need Christ. It’s easy to say I’d rather be in hell, but I can guarantee you that no one in hell currently feels that way. Rather they are in eternal misery because they forfeited their eternal life with God. What did they forfeit it for? Sin, plain and simple. Your issue is sin and not the many reasons you have come up with to reject the Lord.

"The fact that God doesn't care enough to tell his followers that they are following the literal antichrist system, is telling. "

The Lord has detailed everything to do with that in the scriptures. Jesus railed on the Pharisees for exactly the same thing:

Luke 12:54-56

Then He also said to the multitudes, “Whenever you see a cloud rising out of the west, immediately you say, ‘A shower is coming’; and so it is. And when you see the south wind blow, you say, ‘There will be hot weather’; and there is. Hypocrites! You can discern the face of the sky and of the earth, but how is it you do not discern this time?

The Lord outlined how the end times will proceed in the scriptures. There isn't much excuse for not understanding the times that we are living in. There will be a one world government run by the Antichrist, and the whole world will worship him.

"I do appreciate the higher degree of kindness you tend to show than certain others, and my family... almost all Trump supporters I personally know..."

Thank you, and I appreciate that you are willing to engage and talk about spiritual matters with me without trying to belittle me. That's not typical and I appreciate your civility friend.

Overall I am saying this to you because I care about you, not because I am judging you. I need Christ as much as you do RFlagg. It’s because of that, that I know how much you need Him that I am writing this to you. God bless.

If being in Heaven means being around the people who say they will go, Trump supporters, then Hell is a billion times better. The fact that God doesn't care enough to tell his followers that they are following the literal antichrist system, is telling.

Trump Supporters... They HATE LGBTQIA people. They HATE the needy and the poor. They HATE scientific truth, like climate change. They are filled with HATE for foreigners. They LOVE wealth and inequality. They LOVE greed. They LOVE war. Every Trump supporter is like that. They are all bigoted people.

And when I say all Trump supporters, I mean damn near all the ones I personally know. My family, the people I work with. All evil, bigoted people who thump their chest about how Christian they are, and how anyone who reads the Bible would have to be Republican. Who agree with Jerry Falwell Jr. how those who don't support Trump are immoral. They are all stuck in this evangelical cult of Trump.

The day I see the Love of Christ from Republican Christians in masse, will be a miracle. But every fucking day I have to listen to Fox news near all day every day. I have to listen to listen to provable lies that are being taken as gospel, and having to hear how everyone who isn't supporting Trump is evil and against Christ.

Now you may argue that doesn't represent all Christians. But that clearly represents the vast majority of those who care to vote, and certainly of the kids in this video.

Also I wouldn't say I was a cultural Christian at all. My family was, we went to church once a week. Then I got serious about it. I started watching TBN all the time. Started going to an evangelical church. Blasted Democrats and anybody who wouldn't trust Fox News and Fox News alone (my prior comments as Charon seem to have been purged, but I'd blast evolution, trust only in Fox). I went 3 services a week. I was one of those people who'd make sure I said "Merry Christmas" just to be sure people got the message. As I've said before, the initial moment was realizing that the GOP was becoming more and more like the antichrist, and that it was the polar opposite of what Christ himself would want. I became a Libertarian, backed off the 3 services a week to just one, mostly in search of a church that wasn't practically telling people that Republican is the only way a real Christian could vote. Then in 2008 at the Republican debate when a room full of pro-life Christians started chanting "Let him die! Let him die!" with great enthusiasm, about a guy not having insurance and what should happen to him... that was the catalyst that opened the door to everything being so wrong. to say "this... this whole thing is wrong..." And then God did nothing. Christ did nothing. It's gotten a billion times worse since then. Those type of Christians continue to be the main reason people have the same moment where they go... no... and move on. I went, became Pagan for a time, and found it just as connecting to God, at least for those who were serious about it, and empathy says, if they are having just as sincere a relationship with their God as Christians have with God, then it is all equal... and the logic then said, "or not equal, and just as stupid".

Now perhaps I wouldn't be so anti-Christian if I wasn't surrounded by them at work, and having to live with people I'd shit and piss on their grave if their eventual grave wasn't attached to my sister's. Then again, I'd see the news of what these people are doing to this country, fucking it over for profit, and hurting the very people Christ said to help, and doing so in Christ's name... which is the technical definition of using the Lord's name in vain, not just saying something like "Jesus Christ" in exasperation. I do put up with my girlfriend being Christian, though it and her high sex drive are the two things that most drive me nuts... but beggars can't be choosers, and marriage is the only way out of this hell hole of being with my parents at 50 fucking years old... at least until child support goes away...

NOBODY is seeing the love of Christ demonstrated by people like my family, 80-95% of the people at work, Fox, TBN, CBN, 700 Club, Jim Baker, and the like. And they do represent the public image of Christianity. If the moderates and liberal Christians are the majority of Christians, then they don't make their voice known, they don't vote in opposition to these sort of people in this video and on Fox. So either God isn't moving their hearts, they don't care, or God doesn't exist. Even if he does, if my family, Bob, the people I work with, these kids, the other Trump supporters are the main ones there, then I don't want to have to be around them forever, it's bad enough being around them for a short life. Want people to come to God, then start with those sort of people and get them to see how they are doing more harm than good. They have to more at making the world a better place than they do, to leave the world in better shape for centuries to come. Not to take it all for now, not to assume Christ is coming back soon, but always practice he's 50,000 years from coming back... and 1,000 years from now, it's still 50,000 years from then. To act the way Christ said to act, not the greedy fucks that make up the GOP. To actually show the love he showed. He hung out with sinners, and railed against those who were walking around thumping their chest about how holy they are, yet these GOP Christians are thumping their chests, and shunning those who sin differently.

Anyhow I could rant on, but that's enough for now. I do appreciate the higher degree of kindness you tend to show than certain others, and my family... almost all Trump supporters I personally know...

But this is Christian values. Watch Fox. Watch TBN. Watch CBN. The 700 Club. Jim Baker. Go to your local evangelical Christian church. This is Christianity today.

I say good. The more the show how biggited, evil and vile they are, the less people will believe, the more people will leave the faith. The vast majority of Christians who disagree with this segment don't care enough to vote against them, and don't raise their voices. The percentage of Christians who vote against them, and raise their voices are very very few. So the world just sees people like this, and says, Christianity == hatred and bigotry.

Yeah, I've never understood churches being exempt from taxation. I know the argument is that the government could use taxation as a method to infringe upon which churches it doesn't approve of, but if all churches were forced to pay exactly the same rate it would be impossible to discriminate against a specific one.

Of course, churches and religions get away with a lot of crimes that anyone else would get destroyed for. Looking at you, Catholic Church!

I agree....mostly.
My plan, for when I'm emperor, is one tax rate based on the budget that pays for everything in full (no deficit, and pay off the debt) and puts 2% in the bank yearly for future unforseen disasters, with a base deduction of whatever poverty level in your state is +100%, so people barely out of poverty pay nothing.
Whatever that number is should be applied across the board, no loopholes, no special tax rates for certain types of income, no extra exemptions, nothing.
Also, 100% tax on money hidden offshore to avoid taxation and use RICO on the church(s) to pay off most of the debt first.


Yes, there were many reasons why the job market was good in the 50's for white guys, most of which are unthinkable or impossible today. For instance, a single income household with one average salary could not only save, they could often have a continuously rising standard of living. There's no way today, even on two incomes most families are in debt and downwardly mobile.

I hope they start with him. ;-)

So, he thinks Russia has no churches!?! He thinks Venezuela is religion free?! Lol. What a maroon.
"If" they ever get power? Like 2008, when thousands of Christians were hunted like animals and murdered in the streets and organized religion was outlawed in America?....oh, wait....

UnChristian "Christians" like him are why people are fleeing religions like rats on a sinking ship.
The church is a bastion of pedophiles, racists, misogynists, and charlatans. I, for one, would support legal prosecution and even execution of the leaders of these evil cabals and most vile perpetrators from them, just like I would active members and leaders of NAMBLA, and the forfeiture of all church assets like any other criminal organization would see, they have each destroyed far more than one life, it's not unreasonable to think they should pay with their own. Just think of the dent that could make in the national debt and the criminals that would remove from our communities.

Even I, however, don't advocate (anti) religious warfare, what he's suggesting. I believe our legal system, properly and fairly applied, could easily and righteously eradicate most organized religions if only people didn't turn a blind eye towards their undeniable institutionalised crimes and sins.

Also, shouldn't any Christian hope they would be martyred, isn't that a free ticket into heaven in their belief system? Didn't Jebus tell them to turn the other cheek, not to strike first?

Upvote for exposure, not agreement

This is probably the greatest trick the GOP and the evengelical leadership managed to pull on the Christian masses, to make them believe that somehow the GOP is the most Christian, while the Demoncrats are just that, Demons.

Christ said, let those who haven't sinned toss the first stones, but Republican Christians are the ones who fight to deny equal rights under the law to LGBTQIA+ just for sinning differently.

Christ said to treat others as you'd have others treat you, but Republican Christians are the ones who fought all the way to the Supreme Court for the right to deny service against somebody, again for sinning differently, then while they are still cheering they can hate gays more openly, get upset and call for civility when the queen of lies under the king of lies gets kicked out of a restaurant. I guess, judging by the way Republican Christians treat LGBTQIA+, immigrants and the like, want to be treated like they are pieces of absolute shit.

To those they typically say they don't hate gays, they "love the sinner, hate the sin", lacking any sort of empathy on how it would be to be told "I HATE EVERYTHING ABOUT YOU, but I love you... in a distant way as one should love any human". They somehow think all the bigotry and hatred they do in the name of Christ is showing the love of Christ... despite the fact Christ said Love was the greatest commandment.

They also then try to put the blame of hatred of LGBTQIA+ people on Sodom. And while it is true that Sodom's sexual immorality didn't help, as it is specifically mentioned, it wasn't Sodom's sin. Also mentioned as a thing Sodom was guilty of was being hostile to foreigners, but they don't focus on that, just the sexual immorality. And they never focus and the actual sin of Sodom, which the Bible specifies as "This is the sin of your sister Sodom, she was a land of plenty and did little to help the needy and poor in her border." They ignore that, they ignore the hostility to foreigners, ignore that Sodom was vain and arrogant, and everything else listed after it says Sodom sinned greatly, ignore everything except the sexual immorality.

They love the rich, though Christ said that it was easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven. To which they'll typically try to say Christ was talking just about that one guy, but he said "a" not "that", as that guy had left the scene. Now the instruction to sell your things and follow after me, was directed right at that guy.

Christ said to help the needy and the poor, and they are the ones who most want to stop programs to help the needy and poor, so they can save tax money on themselves, or make said needy and poor dependent on the church.

Christ said blessed are the peacemakers, but they are the biggest warmongers of them all.

Christ said heal the sick, and they are the ones most opposed to medicaid for all, and other programs that would guarantee everyone access to AFFORDABLE health care. Somehow they don't care about affordability, and focus only on "the ER isn't going to turn you away just because you can't afford to pay then"... no but you'll be in massive debt for the rest of your life, meanwhile every other Christian nation in the world has medicaid for all at the very minimum.

Christ said Love is the greatest commandment, but they are the most hate filled and bigoted people I know. The most loving and Christ like of people I personally know, Pagans, followed closely by Unitarian Unversalists, followed a way back by Atheist, then liberal Christians, Muslims and way at the back is evangelical Christians... they are one of the biggest reasons why Christianity is loosing numbers, because they don't show the love of Christ, and they don't really care, they just have to do what they feel is right.

Abortions are at the lowest rate ever, because Obamacare gave women access to affordable health care, which was the key all along, but they want to get rid of those protections, because they don't actually want to stop women from having abortions by any means other than making it illegal and punishing women, you can't have them having any birth control or anything like that.

But Republican Christians somehow think they are the only real Christians, that no real Christian could vote Democrat... which you'd think would be their first clue that they are in a cult, when they start judging other Christians as not being Christian enough.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..."

"no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

Technically, neither party should be using religion for anything. Religion is supposed to be separate from the state. Our founders said this, our bill of rights backs it up, and that is the way it should have been.

Unfortunately, it seeps in. In God We Trust was never on money until a reverend asked that it be added to the two cent piece during the civil war. It didn't appear on paper money until the 1950's when President Dwight Eisenhower on July 30, 1956, declared "In God We Trust" must appear on American currency. It went on to be considered a side motto to E Pluribus Unum because of continued pressure.

Under God was not part of the pledge of allegiance until in 1954, at President Dwight D. Eisenhower’s urging, the Congress legislated that “under God” be added.

Both of these broke the guidelines set forth in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. They should have never happened but religious Judges keep allowing them under the pretext of Accommodationism, in that as long as they don't specifically recognize or benefit a 'single' religion they can be considered to be OK. They shouldn't be allowed. Churches should have to pay taxes on profits. Priests should be held by the same laws the rest of us are held by. But because of religious fanatics, we allow the blending of church and state. Many would say, to our detriment.

Remember one of the biggest moves in the conservative movement, one of the main reasons why evangelicals support the GOP, was because the government forced desegregation on Bob Jones University. Though evangelicals started down the GOP path before that, it was a huge turning point in getting evangelical church's directly involved with politics and having them tell their members to vote for the GOP and part of why they call Democrats, who are probably doing more along the lines Christ Himself would, Demoncrats. It's when you'll see the 700 Club, TBN and many others start pushing the GOP agenda rather openly.

Study up on Christian Reconstructionism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_reconstructionism), dominionism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_theology), and The Family: The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Family:_The_Secret_Fundamentalism_at_the_Heart_of_American_Power). Remember to vet things along the way. You'll start to see how those at the top of the Christian right movement, are moving their masses like a cult to be what it is now... making their members think they are the ones who are most thoughtful and intelligent, while blinding them to any sort of truth. This why they accept "alternative facts" and "truth isn't truth" that truth in the eye of the beholder, and facts don't matter if they contradict what is being preached.

Sure the conservative movement is one of if not the main reason why people leave the faith and are turned off by the faith, but they don't care. Greed is now a good thing, and so long as they get in, they don't care what they make the faith look like to the world. They dig their heels in more and more and behave less and less Christ like, showing less of the love of Christ, and more bigotry and discrimination in concordance with the goals of the movement a the top levels.