The argument is exactly that. Rich folk tend to invest. You put money in their pocket, and they'll typically invest it in equity or bonds. Both of these things bring down the cost of corporate borrowing either directly (through bond buying) or indirectly (through supporting the share price, and thus the equity available to borrow against). The hypothesis is that this will lead to more hiring, job retention, or capital investment.

My main issue with it is that in a global economy it doesn't provide any guarantees those jobs happen here. Further, if you don't support demand, there is no real incentive to grow the firm. That's why I think considering the supply side is backwards.

>> ^TheFreak:

Give me $2500 over a year and it will all be spent on household expenses in the bat of an eye, directly into the economy. Give $250,000 to a millionaire and what exactly is it going to do? How is that money going to stimulate the economy better than the millions they're already hoarding?
Someone give me a coherent argument for how an extra fraction of wealth is going to encourage these people to invest and grow anything. Show me the flaw in my logic.

Give me $2500 over a year and it will all be spent on household expenses in the bat of an eye, directly into the economy. Give $250,000 to a millionaire and what exactly is it going to do? How is that money going to stimulate the economy better than the millions they're already hoarding?

Someone give me a coherent argument for how an extra fraction of wealth is going to encourage these people to invest and grow anything. Show me the flaw in my logic.

I agree with what you say. Both parties suck. They do pit us against one another. Corporations should be counted as 1 person and limit their donations to the same $2500 max that you and I are capped at.


>> ^VoodooV:

>> ^bobknight33:
Some of the most stupid reason to vote for Obama.
Obama has 1/2 Asian sister - so vote Obama.
Obama has 3 Asians working for him - so vote Obama.
I was interned in the 40s - so vote Obama.
Asians have low voter turn out - so vote Obama.

to be fair, you actually do make a rational argument for a change. I was actually thinking the same thing.
But I think what was left unspoken is: "The other guy sure as HELL doesn't give a damn about those minorities" Takei is just being classy and keeping it positive.
You're illustrating what is wrong with our voting system. Neither side really has our interests at heart, they BOTH cater to corporations more than they will cater to us.
Parties suck...period. They divide the nation, they pit us against each other all the time. You simply cannot boil down the complex issues of the day into left vs right.
Ban parties, make elections completely and 100 percent public. Get the private money out of there. money is not free speech. your vote is your free speech. Make it about the person and not the party.

Right, but what evidence do you have that this isn't words alone? Between 2001 and 2010 more than 2500 hate crimes were reported in Texas. 11 were prosecuted. Talk to me when we stop hearing numerous local reports per year of obviously hate driven assaults not being charged as such by the police. They claim to be working on it. Making "task forces" and "training officers" yet nothing changes. Even those actions were fought by the city.

I think actions worthy of attention attract their own. They don't come with a manufactured message with a manicured poster boy. It's people in the trenches gettin' 'er done. Having been there watching careerist politicians and clergymen take credit for my and others' efforts I'm left skeptical of those eager for the limelight. I think it's a bit naive not to be.

We aren't talking about Gandhi or MLK here. Why is every good guy Gandhi and every bad guy Hitler? This is a guy running a cop shop. People in this thread have already let on that his guarantees to occupy were BS. He entrapped them just like the rest of the cop shops nationwide. I'm not saying I don't like the guy. He's aiight as far as lawmen go. I just think he talks a bit of the talk for the camera. He makes like he's in the game. That's all. I'll judge him on his record, not his marketing.

>> ^bareboards2:

@bmacs27 we need voices in addition to action. I'm glad that he is putting himself out there via media. That is how one affects change. Gandhi wasn't silent.
Action alone isn't as strong as action and words.
Words alone isn't near as strong as action.
I say good on him.

There are about 1.5 million years between our ancestors discovering fire and the wheel. Iron, 2500 years after that, and then another 3000 years later, the Age of Exploration, the Renaissance, and the Scientific Revolution. It has only been 109 years since Kitty Hawk, and here we are, watching Curiousity land on Mars, a planet that is an average 150 million miles from Earth, from the comfort of our living rooms.

I must have watched the original 4fps version 30 times. Just an amazing thing for humans to have accomplished in such a relatively short span of time. It just blows me away.

? Well, that wasn't my point so I still don't know why you wanna laugh @budzos.

My point was that, if you buy "nice" enough parts (like all parts of an Apple system are "nice"), you end up with a PC that costs about the same as a Mac.

Lol @ you.


>> ^jmzero:

I was gonna list my PC specs and their costs and then realized what a waste of time that is. Just for one example my case cost $400+, not $250. It's a big giant black hunk of brushed aluminum. It's bad-ass.

Meh, if you'd finished your price list, and assuming you went about "$400 case level" on all your components, I think what you would have demonstrated is how much more PC you can get for $2500 (just as I demonstrated how you can get that same hardware for much cheaper).
And I wasn't lol'ing at you for being a Mac fanboy or something. I was laughing at the idea that there's general price parity between Macs and PCs. There just isn't.
(Again, to avoid some pedantry, that doesn't mean people shouldn't get a Mac If you will be happier on a Mac, the price premium you pay on a model like this will almost certainly pay itself over the years.)

I was gonna list my PC specs and their costs and then realized what a waste of time that is. Just for one example my case cost $400+, not $250. It's a big giant black hunk of brushed aluminum. It's bad-ass.



Meh, if you'd finished your price list, and assuming you went about "$400 case level" on all your components, I think what you would have demonstrated is how much more PC you can get for $2500 (just as I demonstrated how you can get that same hardware for much cheaper).

And I wasn't lol'ing at you for being a Mac fanboy or something. I was laughing at the idea that there's general price parity between Macs and PCs. There just isn't.

(Again, to avoid some pedantry, that doesn't mean people shouldn't get a Mac If you will be happier on a Mac, the price premium you pay on a model like this will almost certainly pay itself over the years.)

Oh please - stop it with the DIY PC vs. Mac Pro comparisons, they are just ridiculous.
A HP Z8x0 or a Dell Precision for example



Well... I can't really compare it to, say, the Dell machines we get at work - and for just the kind of reasons you mention. My company pays a premium to Dell (though not as much as we'd pay for Apple) because Dell will drop-ship us a replacement at our whim and gives us reasonable corporate support.

With an Apple you're pretty much just getting the box at that price as far as I've ever figured (we do have some Macs here at work). And if you just want a box, I think it's fair to compare out the price of parts. That's why I compared it like I did. I mean, yeah, if they were doing some sort of corporate support at that price then it would make more sense.

You're gonna look real funny trying to use that computer without a power supply, keyboard, mouse, cables, fans, heat sink(s), software, etc



Yeah, sure, whatever - there's a couple $100 worth of stuff there (more, depending on how you value the software obviously). But, uh:

install Linux and whatever other free software you want for probably about 20% less.



How do you figure that? Even if I spend $1500 (and by now I've got better components in every single slot), I'm still left with $1000 to, uh, buy Linux. That's about $1000, or 40%. That's significant. And the fact is I'd rather have my current home computer (worth $1200 when I bought it a year ago) than that Mac. You're just not getting much for $2500.

Again, if there's some reason you want a Mac, then GO FOR IT! - but I don't see how you can deny there's a significant price premium, at least on this model (again, there's other Macs that I think have reached reasonable price levels).

>> ^deathcow:

I am sure it was a GPS voice recognition error. The dude was like "Take me to Lenny's" and the computer was like "Dennys. Turn right and descend to 2500 feet."


Actually the GPS was right, must have been user error. This airport is really close to a Lennys.

-Tampa Native

I am sure it was a GPS voice recognition error. The dude was like "Take me to Lenny's" and the computer was like "Dennys. Turn right and descend to 2500 feet."

>> ^kceaton1:

>> ^skinnydaddy1:
FAA is going to freak if they find this video and incident has not been reported. o.0

I'm right there with you, that may in fact be one hell of a major no-no and I hope they were over empty lands.
I wonder under normal regulations if they are actually even supposed to continue operating in an event like that, considering all the regulations put on flying (there are a lot). I know it looks like some guy's dumpy car just lost a side door, no biggy, but in flying they breath fire down your neck for missing certain bolts or those said bolts even being remotely loose... I'll have to look and see if a pilot can make a judgment call concerning no mandatory operation machinery attached to the craft coming off (that may be part of the main fuselage!)
I did look and see that the national statistic on flights that should have remained grounded getting fixed (some problems not so big, some big enough that when the plane landed emergency crews were needed to put out fires, not including MANY of the emergency landings at the wrong airport before the plane truly does CRASH) that number comes in at around 65000 flights over six years... This is from the FAA, so we're talking about mostly small business's up to large airlines like Delta. BUT, it must always be remembered that they do a better job than your average driver and their car by far; they just have much more "flashier" endings I guess you could say. Which makes the media frenzy about it like a feeding pool that CNN & FOX News ALIKE, engorge until nothing is left but the tasteless morsels that just reiterate everything we have been told by them before this...it is unfortunate that not only we are exposed to this media circus, but also that 'flying' is being dragged through the toxin-filled-sludge created by our media-hype-elite...
I'd figure the ONE group of people that might actually take great care of their machinery is the smaller business and solo-flyer's. I know one of my grandfather's brother spent hours on end with his plane making sure it was in tip-top shape and making sure his flight plans were exacting (he was kinda a bush-pilot, so that was important to him, if you know what I mean). A small off-topic element to this: I remember going through his flight plans and maps that went up through the Western U.S., into Western Canada, then into lower Alaska...it was amazing to see what detail he went into to get the job done; I would feel very safe flying with him if I ever did, because of the extreme measures he went to to get everything right...
I wonder if the pilot had to worry about anything when they landed, it's impossible to see from the clip, but you don't see if it goes up at all and hits the plane--but, I'd assume since everyone is acting basically happy and fine (no panic at all) I assume that the rest of that flight went normally, except for that and the large amounts of paperwork that wold follow it... (Assuming they weren't idiotic and DID report it...)


Found a little blurp about it here.

Quote
Nah it wasn't our fault. There were ten 'other' jumpers before us. Some were new and didn't know how to operate it. On takeoff they failed to close it properly and then in the back from held it down with there feet till 2500 where two of them stood up to close it properly. When they stood on it it was pushed below the stops on either side (the angle iron shaped things) and then turned the handle. I am assuming the locking pin went below the frame of the door. At height they stood to open the door - stepping on the door and turning the handle. The door didn't rise. They then stood on it harder with no change to the result. They then stood on it harder and pushed it down into the wind and it caught air and took off. One of the coolest things I have ever seen. The door landed in the quarry and has been recovered - it needs about $100 in repairs and will be back in action this weekend (or so i have been told).

Was looking for more on it but so far zip.

All I was implying is that if the table was turned Bill Moyers would not have said a peep.

He was indicating that it was so unfair that Rommey was in much better financial shape than OBAMA due to super PACS. Everyone can see why this is occurring because OBAMA and the democrats have done such a terrible job.

I do agree that all PAC $ should be stopped. All companies, should not be allow to contribute no more that an individual should. I thinks that around $2500. to any person running for office.


I do understand you point. Both parties are as crooked as the day is long.

America needs a new national holiday called Shoot a crooked politician day.
After a few of these holidays this mess would straighten right up.


>> ^Truckchase:

>> ^bobknight33:
Your team will be back on top some day.

I fail to understand why folks like you continue to take an active part in dis-empowering yourself in the name of what you've been told is "freedom". Freedom to subject yourself to debt slavery while decisions are made by those you are indebted to is not freedom.
This isn't a game. These aren't teams. This is money taking away OUR democracy. Until you can understand that and contribute to the solution perhaps you should concentrate on watching sports and drinking beer.

>> ^Payback:

>> ^spoco2:
We just bought a 2 year old Kia Grand Carnival (the Sedona in America), replacing our old 2002 Carnival that had it's engine die after a tiny bloody plastic T joint snapped causing the radiator water to spew onto the road instead of around the engine to cool it. This resulted in an engine that overheated very quickly and a system that was de-pressurised, and apparently not really able to be re-pressurised (don't tell me it could, I don't want to know that it was actually a cheap fix when we're told the engine was cactus... don't want to know we needlessly just paid out a chunk of money on a new car that we didn't need to).
Aaaanyway.
When I was looking into whether the engines in the new Carnivals are any good (apparently they are, Hyundai Lambda engines made in the US of A), I noticed they made a big deal on the wikipedia page about it having a timing CHAIN rather than belt, and wondered why this was a big thing.
Now I know <img class="smiley" src="http://cdn.videosift.com/cdm/emoticon/tongue.gif">

Here is me, NOT telling you it was a cheap fix, even if the engine seized from overheating after you ignored the "check engine" warning light. I also won't tell you that if it didn't come to a screeching, banging, violent halt, you probably could have "nursed" it home/to mechanic by waiting until it cooled down.
No sir, I REFUSE to tell you any of that.
I will tell you that if the reason it couldn't be pressurized was "a warped cylinder head" then ya, the engine is boned, but I'll avoid saying it would be about $2500 for a motor out of a auto wrecker (junk yard, used parts lot, etc) or even around $300 for a new cylinder head.


Well that's good to know (sort of). My wife was driving it at the time, and the check engine didn't come on, but it did come to a screeching, banging halt, with steam pouring out of the engine bay. To get an engine from one of these old ones rebuilt is around $4K (Australian), and that's about all the 2002 carnival is worth now, no-one wants to touch them. There's no point getting a 2nd hand engine from anywhere as there's not many to begin with, and they're just not reliable enough to spend the money on anyway.

So it was either a scrap yard for $500, or a trade in for $600. We had to be able to drive it in. Limped it in (still no check engine light on), handed it over, bid them good luck with it. We had told them the engine had blown up, but they were 'well, if you can drive it in, we'll give you $600 for it'. So it's not like we lied to them about the condition of the car. They'll scrap it for parts anyway.

>> ^spoco2:

We just bought a 2 year old Kia Grand Carnival (the Sedona in America), replacing our old 2002 Carnival that had it's engine die after a tiny bloody plastic T joint snapped causing the radiator water to spew onto the road instead of around the engine to cool it. This resulted in an engine that overheated very quickly and a system that was de-pressurised, and apparently not really able to be re-pressurised (don't tell me it could, I don't want to know that it was actually a cheap fix when we're told the engine was cactus... don't want to know we needlessly just paid out a chunk of money on a new car that we didn't need to).
Aaaanyway.
When I was looking into whether the engines in the new Carnivals are any good (apparently they are, Hyundai Lambda engines made in the US of A), I noticed they made a big deal on the wikipedia page about it having a timing CHAIN rather than belt, and wondered why this was a big thing.
Now I know


Here is me, NOT telling you it was a cheap fix, even if the engine started to seize from overheating after you ignored the "check engine" warning light. I also won't tell you that if it didn't come to a screeching, banging, violent halt, you probably could have "nursed" it home/to mechanic by waiting until it cooled down.

No sir, I REFUSE to tell you any of that.

I will tell you that if the reason it couldn't be pressurized was "a warped cylinder head" then ya, the engine is boned, but I'll avoid saying it would be about $2500 for a motor out of a auto wrecker (junk yard, used parts lot, etc) or even around $300 for a new cylinder head.

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