minuephysics - Why it's Impossible to Tune a Piano

"Pianos can't be perfectly tuned - it's a mathematical fact!" -YT
draak13says...

More like, why piano tuning methods need to be brought into the modern level of technology. Slap a spectrum analyzer on it, and tune each string absolutely.

vilsays...

You can slap technology on it, but you have to understand the problem first. You can absolutely tune one string absolutely.

You cant tune a piano absolutely because how keys and harmony work, not for lack of ear or technology. You have to decide how to fudge the tuning to suit the purpose.

MilkmanDansays...

My dad is a regular listener to NPR, and they had a story about this probably ~10 years ago. The story was in large part inspired by a CD where piano virtuosos played famous pieces in the alternate tempered tunings that were (most likely) used by the composers of the songs. Many did NOT use even tempering, because it didn't exist yet.

For example, it had some Bach and other Baroque pieces played on a "well tempered" piano, and some older stuff (can't remember the composer) played on a piano with Pythagorean tempering, which prioritizes *perfect* fifths at the expense of some of the other intervals.

My dad bought the CD after hearing the story. It was really interesting to listen to because of the way that the intervals favored by the alternate temperings really rang true, but ears used to modern equal tempering made everything *else* sound a little out-of-whack dissonant.

I'll have to see if I can find that story/CD.

Phoozsays...

Hey! I'm a piano tuner by trade! Awesome to see this on the sift!

Check out this website if you want to delve deeper into this stuff: http://www.rollingball.com/TemperamentsFrames.htm

Essentially, back in the day, each key (talking Cmajor/Cminor, Dmajor/Dminor, etc.) had intervals that were tuned a little differently and so each key had it's own character and the more sharps and flats the key had the crazier it sounded (and the less it was used!). Under the section "Key Color" it shows you what kind of character the key had be it sad or happy. pretty interesting stuff!

Not until the advent of piano analysis was equal temperament possible. So in equal temperament every key is acceptable to play in albeit all slightly out of tune.

This further goes into why barbershop harmony (or all acapella music, really) is so interesting because it and its overtones are not bound by any temperament.

Zawashsays...

You can easily tune a piano in just temperement (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_intonation), but for one key only - it would sound rubbish in all other keys (some more than others), and thus you wouldn't be able to change keys during the song. The advent of equal temperement meant that you can change the key as you play, which is a major advantage.

Tuning a piano in equal temperement is to tune each string "absolutely", each being slightly off. If you want a just intonation in all keys absolutely in many different keys at once, you'd have to change the tuning or the strings every time you change the key during the song.

The problem is not a lack of technology, the problem is rather that it is a mathematical impossibility.

draak13said:

More like, why piano tuning methods need to be brought into the modern level of technology. Slap a spectrum analyzer on it, and tune each string absolutely.

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