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oritteropo (Member Profile)

lucky760 (Member Profile)

hamsteralliance says...

Yo, duder! So, I made a video that I think the video-game-playing members of the sift would enjoy, but I'm aware of the rule that we're not supposed to share stuff we had any involvement in. But I also recall the rule saying that exceptions were occasionally made.

Would it be possible to get such an exception for this video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2oKH3fSU0c It's basically the progress of video game graphics over time, starting from pong and going until modern day graphics and augmented reality.

Alternatively, perhaps another sifter would post it, like Ant or whoever else has an interest in gaming. I figured I'd ask you first since you're IN DEEP with the sift.

Thanks!

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lucky760 (Member Profile)

hamsteralliance says...

Hi! Thanks. I am using 1Password. Also, I tested it to see if that was really it and it blacklisted me again. I'm on my phone now.

HALP! Thanks again, duder!

lucky760 said:

Hi @hamsteralliance! You should be able to access the site again.

Your IP got auto-blacklisted because there was something fishy about how you logged in recently. Do you use some kind of auto-form-filling plugin or something? If there's some common false positive, we'll definitely want to fix it so you don't keep getting blacklisted.

Thanks!

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Everything You Need To Know About Digital Audio Signals

hamsteralliance says...

tl;dr: No, not really and no, probably not.

-

MP3 compression methods are pretty good these days. A well encoded mp3 sounds quite good at 224k. 320k is ideal, but 224k sounds fine to me.

I think most people would be incredibly hard pressed to tell the difference between a well encoded 320k MP3 and a FLAC file.

To showcase this and hopefully answer your question through demonstration, I've put together an odd sound file here for ya: http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/837649/soundtest.wav

It's a 24bit 48kHz wav file of a piece of bright and full audio thrown together just for this (using 24-bit 48kHz audio sources). The audio loops a few times and each time it loops it's in a different format or quality.

The odd part is that I've dropped the audio volume down all the way to just barely above the 16-bit noise floor before exporting into each format, then cranked the volume back up again. Just to see what would happen.

Anyway, the play order is as follows:
1. Original 16-bit audio (sound normal, as it should.)
2. 16-bit audio re-gained (noise city - the 16-bit FLAC was the same.)
3. 24-bit audio re-gained (Sounds as good as the original.)
4. FLAC 24-bit re-gained (Sounds as good as the original.)
5. MP3 8 k re-gained (What?)
6. MP3 64 k re-gained (Sounds like a bad MP3, because it is. but, do note it's mostly just dull and a bit unstable sounding, not all weird like the 8k one.)
7. MP3 128 k re-gained (Pretty good, but still a bit dull. Not horrible though.)
8. MP3 224 k re-gained (Sounds as good as the original? Pretty close, I'd say.)
9. MP3 320 k re-gained (Sounds as good as the original as far as I'm concerned.)

This is just one test though. There are most certainly songs or sounds out there that wouldn't fare as well as this one. No idea what those would be though, as everything I've MP3-ified in the last decade or so sounds absolutely fine to me.

MilkmanDan said:

Thanks for the reply and sharing your expertise -- sounds like you'd confirm everything that the video said.

This probably just displays my ignorance more, but specifically with regards to the MP3 format, do you think it adds any noticeable compression artifacts even at high-quality settings? Part of my problem was that I was thinking of MP3 *bit*rate as sampling rate (128 kbit/s = 128 kHz, which is not at all correct). But still, MP3 is a lossy format (obviously since one can turn a 650M CD into ~60M of 128k MP3s, or still a large filesize savings even for 320k) and even my relatively untrained ear can sometimes hear the difference at low (say, 128k or lower) bitrates.

I guess that a music producer wouldn't record/master anything in a compressed format like MP3, so that is sort of entirely separate from the point of this video and your comment. But just out of curiosity, do you think that people can detect differences between a 16 bit 44 kHz uncompressed digital recording (flac maybe?) and a very high quality MP3 (say, 320 kbit)?

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hamsteralliance says...

Going from 16 bits, to 24 bits will lower the noise floor which, if you have the audio turned up enough, you can hear it ever so slightly. It's not a huge difference and you're not going to hear it in a typical song. It's definitely there, but it's already insanely quiet at 16 bits. An "Audiophile" on pristine gear may notice the slight change in hiss in a moment of silence, with the speakers cranked up - but that's about it.

As for pushing up the sampling rate, when you get beyond 44.1kHz, you're not really dealing with anything musical anymore. All you're hearing, if you're hearing it at all, is "shimmer". or "air". It sounds "different" and you might be able to tell which is which, but it's one of those differences that doesn't really matter in effect. A 44.1khz track can still make ear-piercingly high frequencies - the added headroom just makes it glisten in a really inconsequential way.

This is coming from 17 years of music production. I've gone through all of this, over and over again, testing myself, trying to figure out what is and isn't important.

At the end of it all, I work on everything in 16bit 48kHz - I record audio files in 24 bit 48 kHz - then export as 16 bit 44.1kHz. I don't enable dither anymore. I don't buy pro-audio sound cards anymore. I don't use "studio monitors" anymore. I just take good care of my ears and make music now.

MilkmanDan said:

However, I'm pretty sure that real audiophiles could easily listen to several copies of the same recording at different bitrates and frequencies and correctly identify which ones are higher or better quality with excellent accuracy. I bet that is true even for 16bit vs 24bit, or 192kHz vs 320kHz -- stuff that should be "so good it is impossible to tell the difference".

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