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The Truth About Toilet Swirl - Northern Hemisphere

Stormsinger says...

It's a real phenomenon for vortices measuring hundreds of miles in diameter, yes. At that size, the coriolis effect (the difference in rotational speed of the northern and southern extremes) is a huge factor.

For a vortex measuring a few inches in diameter, not so much. It takes rather extreme measures to make the coriolis effect the largest factor.

deedub81 said:

Dude. It's a real phenomenon. It's physics. Try to find examples of cyclones or hurricanes that don't follow this rule.

Are You Consuming Your Coffee Correctly?

Are You Consuming Your Coffee Correctly?

What makes something right or wrong? Narrated by Stephen Fry

Stormsinger says...

I don't necessarily disagree with you. I tend to think that religion does more harm than good, especially when the lesson it teaches is "Don't think, just trust your priest".

However, his view -could- be right. I cannot think of any way to test it that doesn't involve highly unethical processes, so I can't help but hope that we'll never really know.

messenger said:

I'd wager the amount of harm that comes from religion outweighs the amount of harm prevented in such rare people who are only restrained by religion. Almost everybody knows the difference between right and wrong and much prefers to do right for its own sake.

What makes something right or wrong? Narrated by Stephen Fry

Stormsinger says...

My god! It's like listening to myself think. With more detail.

In fairness to my uncle, I should point out that to the best of my knowledge, he's not at all a believer. His statement was coming from much the same viewpoint that you and I seem to share. It was that statement that started me thinking along these lines. I'm still not sure I'm willing to reduce my view of humanity to that level (that most need rules forced on them by imaginary superhumans before they'll behave well), but the older I get, the closer I come.

MilkmanDan said:

This is a very interesting question that I've thought quite a lot about during my life (to myself, not in any sort of professional capacity).

The conclusions that I have come to (so far) are:
I think that, yes, religion in general terms IS a significant (but it is a stretch to say the ONLY) restraint on a pretty large number of people. Which is a prospect that I personally have a negative and pessimistic reaction to, similar to what it sounds like you do.

However, I think that there are lots of mitigating circumstances. First, many different religions currently provide that restraint to people. And in the past, many many more religions provided it to even more people. Many of those different religions have been very very different. Some have been near polar opposites. That proves that if your goal is restraining people from being utterly evil, and someone suggests that religion has made or is making a noble effort towards that (like your uncle), the positive aspects they are cheering for are not unique to any single religion, or dogma, or whatever.

If one accepts that many many diverse and completely different religions can potentially have the positive effects that we're looking for, then the actual source of those effects can not be something specific to any one religion. Instead, it has to be something that is held in common by all such religions.

Religions are so diverse and different, it might be hard to imagine something that they have in common. No specific god is held in common, even though all the Abrahamic religions might arguably share that aspect. Not even the simple idea of a god or gods or creator is far from universal; Buddhists revere no god.

Yet I believe that there is one easily overlooked thing that all religions DO have in common. Humanity. They all come from flawed but usually well-meaning people.

However, atheists hold that humanity in common with religions as well. And that makes me believe that if we understand humanity better, either through psychology, or empathy, or whatever, we can achieve the positive effects of religions without the religions themselves. Certainly without the stone-age dogmatic nonsense -- which tends to have arguably as many if not more BAD effects as good. This actually gives me great hope for humanity; rather the opposite to the conclusion that I came to originally when pondering the question.

There may always be people who have no empathy, and for whom nothing would serve to restrain them from what humanity at large would easily identify as great evil. No religion will handle such individuals any better than no religion ... so I guess I don't lose any sleep over that.

What makes something right or wrong? Narrated by Stephen Fry

Stormsinger says...

Sure, on both ends, there are clearly people that don't find morality in religion. The question at hand is, what about those believers in the middle of the spectrum? Is the behavior of some of them moderated by the rules of their religion? If so, how many, and how much moderation?

Tough questions, and I can't see any trustworthy and ethical way to find out.

FlowersInHisHair said:

The fact that we can look critically at the instructions we are given in the Bible and judge them to be moral or immoral is evidence that we do not get our morality from the god described within its pages, nor its human avatar.

On the flipside of the argument, the killers and thieves you mention have access to this book too, and behave badly despite certain instructions to the contrary. We look at its instructions regarding genocide and slavery and stoning adulteresses and it's an easy "no, I won't do that", at least for most of us. We also look at its instruction regarding theft and murder and some people do those things anyway. So what I wonder is, what effect is this god supposed to have, exactly?

What makes something right or wrong? Narrated by Stephen Fry

Stormsinger says...

This is a statement my uncle made when I expressed a distaste for religion in general. His belief is that it's the only restraint on a fair number of people, and worth putting up with for that reason alone. I'd hate to think he's right (not that I mind him being right in general, but for what it says about the human race), but it could be so.

Which might offer some actual benefit from religion. Blech. I'd hate to think that superstition is a useful facet of society.

Sagemind said:

...
And, if so, are these the people that need a God? Are all those god fearing people good members of the community just because they "fear a God"
Without a god to tell them, would they end up being the most unruly people on the planet? Is it religion that is keeping them at bay? Is chaos and anarchy the result of no religion? Not because we need it, but because without a GOD, certain people (currently religious) would have no compass, and would they feel free to randomly hurt, kill, steal and otherwise be the lowest of humanity?

Just some thoughts....

What makes something right or wrong? Narrated by Stephen Fry

Stormsinger says...

There seems to be some evidence that a lack of empathy -can- be inborn, rather than learned. An actual malformed brain or unbalanced brain chemistry, if you will. At the same time, there is evidence that empathy is indeed an innate trait, rooted in physical brain structures (the whole mirror neuron idea).

eric3579 said:

I think we all have different degrees of empathy. Empathy is something that's learned and not something you are born with. The less empathetic you are the easier i assume it is to do something that society says is wrong. Empathy i've always thought usually goes hand in hand with right and wrong although judging what's right and wrong is subjective to some extent(lots of grey area).

Who Will Survive The 6th Mass Extinction?

3 seconds cooking!!

What narcolepsy really looks like

Walrus Flash Mob & 20 Years of Pot Research

Stormsinger says...

Danny, I don't disagree with your conclusions, nor even most of your individual points. Except...(you knew this was coming, right?)..."something that has been of the earth for millions of years" is no way to pick your supplements. Anthrax, coral snake venom, and guinea worms are all completely natural too.

Not at all a big point, just a pet peeve of mine. "Naturally occurring" =/= "good for you". Just leave it at something like "millions of people from many generations have suffered little to no apparent harm".

A Baffling Balloon Behavior - Smarter Every Day

Can You Solve This? - Veritasium

Numberphile: 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + ... = -1/12

Stormsinger says...

Division by zero does -not- tend towards both positive and negative infinity. It simply means you fucked up, and cannot solve or factor the equation that way.

ChaosEngine said:

It's a trick of notation really.

1+2+3+4+... is the same as
1x^1 + 2x^2 + 3x^3 + 4x^4+.... where x is 1.
The sum of that series is 1/(1-x)^2 or in this case 1/0

Division by zero is undefined (tends towards both positive and negative infinity)



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