He's right about the lack of dissent of anything government between 2001 and Obama. To have done so would have been unpatriotic.

If the US won or left, what would happen to all the people making the weapons and supporting the military? You want them to lose their jobs? And where would the weapons companies and the military try out new weapons? You are talking about hindering real progress. Very unpatriotic.

>> ^Xax:

Where the hell did that jackass get the idea that Ellen doesn't like America? Is it safe to assume it's because she's gay and has a problem with certain principles of conservative government? I guess that does make her an America-hating, unpatriotic, treasonous dyke. I can't think of any other reason he'd say that. Did her maybe have her confused with somebody else?


Maybe he was thinking of Rosie. Everyone knows that dyke hates America.

Where the hell did that jackass get the idea that Ellen doesn't like America? Is it safe to assume it's because she's gay and has a problem with certain principles of conservative government? I guess that does make her an America-hating, unpatriotic, treasonous dyke. I can't think of any other reason he'd say that. Did he maybe have her confused with somebody else?

Just a thought for the last one, what about the unpatriotic? should they be treated any differently? I realize this wasn't the intention just kinda ticks me off when patriotism is referenced as a common value a nation's people should all aspire to.

Any word on the effect their meddling had? It seems to me that this sort of fraud is one of the most unpatriotic, un-American, and treasonous things someone could do... hopefully their punishment is equally severe.

If you approve of universal health care, you're a "Socialist." Shut up!
If you don't agree with the War on Terror, you're "Unpatriotic." Shut up!

This is a witty take on what can now only thinly be thought of as political debate, and I'm relieved to see you're posting this knowing that it's a take that can be used both ways.
*upvote for critiquing unproductive political rhetoric and sparking actual thought.

It doesn't play for me either. Is that the point of the video, to say that playing as a terrorist is somehow unpatriotic?

Tell that to the millions of people constantly playing Counter Strike. You're either a T or a CT, and it really doesn't matter which, as long as your team-mates aren't fucking idiots. Morality doesn't come into it.

Gay Marriage: There are people out there who just don't want to shake things up; people who like the status quo and want to see marriage remain M/F only. Exactly what's going on in their heads, I can't say. I'd be interested to find out and I know that won't happen if I scream obscenities at them before they have the chance to explain it.

Illegal Immigration: First, the omission of "illegal" in my first post was just an oversight on my part. I really don't see why anyone would support illegal immigration, honestly. I think the claim that some people do is more likely a distortion. People, generally liberals, argue for better treatment of illegals and against the assload of money we spend trying, and failing, to stop them at the border. Wingnuts then point at those people and claim that they're in favor of illegal immigration. That one feels like runaway douchebaggery to me.

The Holocaust: This guy is labeled an antisemite for his beliefs about the Holocaust. If you're looking for "the point" to denying the Holocaust, then you're way off the mark. It's not as if there is a "point" to believing in the Holocaust, either. That's what you and I, presumably, believe because that is what the evidence presented to us suggests. Some people have interpreted the evidence differently or have been exposed to different evidence. I think most of those people are probably nuts but it's a complete logical fallacy to jump to antisemitism from there.

War on Terror: You've made my point for me here. Everyone I know who is against the war fully supports the troops. We want them home and safe rather than risking their lives to protect us from absolutely nothing. However, anyone who was against the war during the Bush administration was labeled as anti-American, unpatriotic, an appeaser or accused of hating the troops. It's a bullshit accusation intended to shut you up or drown you out and that's it.
---
It seems like you may have mistaken my list of examples for my personal positions and that's not the case, so I can't really make any arguments for these things. The only argument I'm making is that you shouldn't assume your preconceived notions are true and shut out those opposing viewpoints as a result. Have your preconceptions if you must, but give the person the chance to prove you wrong.

>> ^Shepppard:
What possible reason other then either being a bible thumper or homophobe is there for objecting gay marriage?
I'm asking legitimately. Two people love each other, they want the same treatment as everybody else. Unless it's wrong in the eyes of the lord, or you don't like seeing a man holding another mans hand, I see no actual valid reason for it.
Now, Beck says he opposes Illegal immigration, big difference to just immigration. I can understand not wanting illegal immigrants, even though they too are just a group of people looking for a better life, but the ones who come over legally, apply for a visa or citizenship.. if they take a job away from an American, then they deserve the spot more then the American, they were more qualified.
I don't see the point of denying the holocost, when there are still survivors OF the holocost, and documents, eyewitness accounts, films, and still photographs proving that millions of Jewish people were encamped, and killed, during WWII. True, you can argue that you don't care about the jews, you just don't believe it happened.. but I don't understand the reasoning for it. Any hard look at the facts would prove that it happened, and unless you really did have some ulterior motive you'd change your views.
Of course you can oppose policies without being a racist, anybody claiming you ARE one is a loon. Obama is NOT the first ever president of the u.s.a. and as far as I know, for each and every president before him, there was at least one group of people that thought "Hey..we don't like you, or your policies, BOO!"
You can oppose the war on terror without hating the troops makes no sense to me. Most people who are against the war seem to be against it because they feel that American blood shouldn't be shed in a senseless war, and want to bring them HOME. I don't understand your point there at all.
Abortion, I agree with you on. My mother is adopted, and while I'm still pro-choice, she is against abortions. If whoever gave birth to her decided on having an abortion instead, she would never have been here.
Look, I'll stop picking apart your post now, because I know the point was actually to promote having an open mind, but your examples given are slightly..flawed. By all means, if you have means to correct me, do so, I will gladly look at all the evidence given to me. But honestly..
some things, some pre-concieved notions, they're honestly true.

I have questioned my belief in Capitalism. I've often said if there's a better system, I'd be for it. I'm not convinced Socialism or any variation thereof is a better system. One of my good friends, a Marxist, has petitioned to me about the greatness of such a society. But, for that system to work you cannot question it, because once you do the proverbial house of cards comes crashing down around him. It's not that he doesn't explain it well. No, the contrary he's one of the smartest men I know. Has a Masters in Business Administration from Cambridge and hates Capitalism, as well.

But, one thin we agree on is that when people bandy about the term Capitalism, they really mean Corporatism. This isn't me creating an idealistic view of Capitalism by removing it from the association of Corporatism and large Industrialists. My largest fears rest in them.

It comes down to who owns the means of production. You believe it should belong to the workers, while I believe it should belong to whoever puts up the capital and takes the risk. I want to know how that is to happen without violence? How can we make a peaceful transition to Socialism? Beyond that, I don't find it moral to steal, and by remove power from individuals who "own" a company and give it to many, it is stealing. It would be like us revolting on VideoSift and taking the ownership of the site away from dag. It wouldn't be moral.

You asked, "When was the last time Ron Paul made an effort to curb corporate power?" He always votes against Corporatist interests. He strongly opposed the bailouts. He doesn't agree with government giving in to Corporatists and excluding smaller businesses, and so far his plane hasn't crashed in the sea. The health industry is a complete morass thanks to government "restrictions" which excludes smaller businesses from competing and practically handed that entire industry over to the Corporations. You think if some public option was passed the Corporations wouldn't be the ones to benefit? Government is the problem; not the solution.

You said, "You use the term 'government' as a pejorative, and consider democracy tyranny." And, yes, I do believe Democracy, when direct, is tyrannical. If 51% of the Christian population wanted to put prayer back in school, do you think it would be fair for your children if they had to pray in school because of it? Or if 51% of white people decided the minority races should be made into slaves? Direct Democracy is dangerous. How can it not be? Please explain to me how Democracy isn't 51% of the population taking the rights away from 49%?

And, I'm absolutely cynical of my government. Why shouldn't I be? We know they lie to us (Waco, Gulf of Tonkin, Weapons of Mass Destruction, etc. etc. etc.), so why would I want them to have even more control over my life and my labor when they've proven to be beyond the capacity of trust? You Democrats are just like the Republicans. When your guy is in office, it's unpatriotic to go against government. But, when the other guy is in office, it's patriotic. You and NetRunner and KnivesOut and the other Social Dems on here didn't have a single problem with me when I was speaking against the Bush Administration, but let me say one cross word against Obama and I'm a heretic.

I ask for you to explain how Socialism would work. Give me an example how we could possibly make that transition.

In reply to this comment by dystopianfuturetoday

2:50 "My article is not about the right. I believe in conservative principles. What I don't believe in is the visceral disdain that the far right has tolerated against this president. It is unpatriotic." - Jeremy Levitt (emphasis mine)

Doesn't sound like he's smearing all conservatives. He himself is conservative.

Sherrod Brown is so awesome. I'm hoping we get another one like him to replace Voinovich.

I didn't hear him call anyone unpatriotic.

The Bush rhetoric sounds a bit more like "You're either with us or against us" or "I think they should support the troops." Maybe just something about the blame-America first, or surrendermonkeys.

It's a bit closer to Palin's "real Americans", but I think any fair person would realize that was very, very different.

"We need a culture of courage in Washington instead of a culture of cowardice."

I couldn't agree with that man more. Democrats are proving over and over and over again that they are cowardly and I am becoming more and more and more disillusioned over my hopes for the Obama administration and a democratically controlled Congress.

Frankly, Obama's 180 on this (or perhaps more accurately 90 right turn) shows he does NOT have the courage of his convictions, and is willing to simply give up on something because it is hard. That is NOT the man I voted for and it eats me up inside to see him do this.

Goddammit, the one things modern "Republicans" have in spades is the cojones to take the bold steps and initiatives, dam the torpedos, and run in a direction until they by-GOD get what they want. Unfortunately they wanted a war for profit and the elevation of corporate profits over the safety and health of America's citizens.

If Democrats could find the same sack as Republicans had under GW, this debate would be over and done with. Use their tactics! Call supporters of the status quo unpatriotic, show up with guns to anti-healthcare rallies! Pay priests and pastors HUGE sums of cash to get them to tell their congregations Jesus would want public healthcare! Get country music stars to write songs for you! Christ people, republicans wrote the godsdamn playbook on this, just friggin COPY IT!

What's the problem? They are unpatriotic. They use arguments based not on reality, but on the fantasies of Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, etc.

Ultimately, they are trying to hurt our country because their guy lost, and the other side won, not because they actually care about, or even read, the proposed health care legislation. It's all sour grapes at this point. Or racism.

PUH - LEAZ.

His so-called 'conservative opposition' has nowadays reduced itself to endless nonsensical, openly unpatriotic hateful drivel - just look at all the Glenn Beck and Fox&Friends clips in recent months. And the ironic part in this (which this guy seems oblivious to) is that it was enabled by one of his culprits - the 'leftist' media, who unlike Fox News in their efforts at actually being "fair and balanced" started giving airtime to stupid, ignorant hacks for the sake of having a "balanced debate". You wouldn't entertain the idea of a moon-landing-hoaxer debating NASA in front of a televised audience, would you (3:13)? You wouldn't invite the KKK to a debate on racism, would you? Same principle applies to why Bill O'Reilly shouldn't have a show.

Also, can somebody please explain to me how in the world would net neutrality be used to shut someone up? This claim is beyond ridiculous, the whole concept is that of no censorship. Seems to me logic and common sense just joined journalism and political science on the list of things this guy fails at.

But then again, this is a guy who says there could (and should) be a movie that supports 'war on terror' and that Bush is Batman, among other things. Yyyeeeeeaaaaaaaaah.