You're right, still not a single study or report devoted to statistics.

Lots moe sensationalist stories, though.>> ^Opus_Moderandi:

>> ^handmethekeysyou:
I tried googling this. Not a single report or study devoted to "
how many traffic stops per year result in shootings" on the first page. Unsurprisingly, many sensationalist news stories.>> ^MrFisk:
How many cars are pulled over in the U.S., in a year? How many result in a fatality to the officer? I'm trying to figure out if it's more likely they'll be shot, hit by lightning, or bitten by a shark.


Try googling "cop killed during traffic stop"

What's new is how many video cameras there are now. No place to hide for the cops to hide, even during a routine traffic stop.


>> ^marbles:

>> ^bareboards2:
Oh, I'm looking forward to how this plays out.
This is something I didn't expect -- the pushback from the police on using cameras by ordinary citizens.
Things are beginning to escalate, I'm thinking. Court cases will ensue, I predict.
Plus cameras with longer lenses, so you can stand farther away and record events. That'll be here soon.
"Anti police" is his argument against her. Ah the ever present cycle of violence. We're all pawns to its insidious nature.

Police have been aggressive toward photographers/videographers for a long time. It's not something new.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

No, not much. Though I don't think this one rises to the level of snuff. I see him being assaulted but thankfully, his graphic murder is not really part of the video.>> ^Norsuelefantti:

I personally dislike these (snuff) videos. I think @dag kinda likes them though.

Not a Texas Ranger but a Tx State Trooper.

...less than 150 Rangers and not much into traffic stops.

One riot...one Ranger.

>> ^swedishfriend:
statistics, physical reality: no matter how many times I flip a coin and get heads up the next toss is still an equal chance to come up heads or tails. No matter how many stops a police officer makes, the results are 4 times more likely to end up in a dead civilian than in a dead cop at any one stop. in other words if stops result in 10 cops killed in a year the same number of stops resulted in 40 civilians killed. On a stop by stop basis the risk is 4 times greater for the civilian. If a cop makes 100 stops in a year he may be more likely to end up dead in that year than a person who gets stopped once during that year but that doesn't change the odds at any one stop. At any one traffic stop the risk is four times greater that the civilian will end up dead. Most stops end well but I don't find it reasonable for the person who is definitely armed and dangerous to always assume that the other person is the dangerous one by default. Especially since statistics show that cops are more likely to commit crimes than the general population and that each interaction with a police officer is more likely to end up badly for the civilian than for the cop. It also seems to me that starting any interaction off with an attack and / or assumptions about the other person not based on any evidence will definitely make the situation more dangerous for all participants.

You have a very strange sense of logic. Let's look at the facts:

1) The man immediately got out of his car, confronted the cop and then put his hand into his pocket.
2) The man was wearing a baggy sweatshirt and baggy pants, both of which could easily conceal a weapon.
3) The man completely ignored the cop's orders.
4) While ignoring said orders, the man actually approached the cop.

Given these facts, it's very clear that the man was neither calm nor rational. Do you really believe that the cop should have ignored these facts and thought "Well, statistics show that there's only a 20% chance that this guy is going to attack me so I guess I should holster my weapon and relax"? And even if the cop did indeed do that, how do you think the man would have responded to being told that he was pulled over for a crooked license plate? Given his already belligerent behavior, do you think he would have just said "Oh, okay" and suddenly become compliant? I doubt that very much. In all likelihood, he would have only become more hostile and the situation would have been escalated.

Cops can never assume that a suspect is harmless, especially when that suspect is acting aggressive and confrontational. You can cite all the statistics you want but common sense will always prevail. Like it or not, the police hold a position of authority over you. They have the right to shoot or taser you should you present yourself as a threat. As such, you need to think logically. Don't want to get tasered or arrested? Don't present yourself as a threat. It's that simple. Almost every one of these videos is the same. Someone acts confrontational, ignores police orders and/or resists arrest, then they suffer the consequences. If you believe you have the right to ignore the police and do whatever you want, by all means, go ahead. Just don't be surprised when you get tasered or shot. It's like acting outraged after walking onto the freeway and getting run over. Common sense, please.

>> ^swedishfriend:

statistics, physical reality:
no matter how many times I flip a coin and get heads up the next toss is still an equal chance to come up heads or tails.
No matter how many stops a police officer makes, the results are 4 times more likely to end up in a dead civilian than in a dead cop at any one stop. in other words if stops result in 10 cops killed in a year the same number of stops resulted in 40 civilians killed. On a stop by stop basis the risk is 4 times greater for the civilian.
If a cop makes 100 stops in a year he may be more likely to end up dead in that year than a person who gets stopped once during that year but that doesn't change the odds at any one stop.
At any one traffic stop the risk is four times greater that the civilian will end up dead. Most stops end well but I don't find it reasonable for the person who is definitely armed and dangerous to always assume that the other person is the dangerous one by default. Especially since statistics show that cops are more likely to commit crimes than the general population and that each interaction with a police officer is more likely to end up badly for the civilian than for the cop.
It also seems to me that starting any interaction off with an attack and / or assumptions about the other person not based on any evidence will definitely make the situation more dangerous for all participants.


And what percentage of those civilians who die are killed in valid self defense? 90%?

>> ^peggedbea:

meh, yeah... sometimes we're called anti-authoritarians... it's not cop-hate on a personal level... it's cop-hate as an ideological platform. google that shit.
was the dude a dumbshit for getting out of his car? you bet.
do i still dislike police and find this traffic stop/ the societal punishment paradigm we exist in abhorrent? you bet.
do i hate the culture that constructs these kinds of scenarios? absolutely.
>> ^draak13:
I'm really quite impressed with people who really hate cops soooo much; anything of or being field law enforcement seems to immediately evoke feelings of loathing in some people, to the point where a police officer cannot be without fault. Myself and many people who admittedly lean a little anti-cop end up siding with the cop on this one, but there are so many anti-cop people who are so far polarized against police that they still can't see any cop doing right...even when the officer deserves commendation for sticking to their training so well.
I dare anyone to post a police confrontation video in which they feel the cop was completely justified. Try posting a video where the police officer was not covering any sort of gray area of correctness in handling the situation, but in which every action was completely justified and necessary. Try posting a video where we feel empathy and satisfaction for the cop. I bet you'll be amazed at how many people will still hate the officer for what they did.



>> ^peggedbea:

meh, yeah... sometimes we're called anti-authoritarians... it's not cop-hate on a personal level... it's cop-hate as an ideological platform. google that shit.
was the dude a dumbshit for getting out of his car? you bet.
do i still dislike police and find this traffic stop/ the societal punishment paradigm we exist in abhorrent? you bet.
do i hate the culture that constructs these kinds of scenarios? absolutely.
>> ^draak13:
I'm really quite impressed with people who really hate cops soooo much; anything of or being field law enforcement seems to immediately evoke feelings of loathing in some people, to the point where a police officer cannot be without fault. Myself and many people who admittedly lean a little anti-cop end up siding with the cop on this one, but there are so many anti-cop people who are so far polarized against police that they still can't see any cop doing right...even when the officer deserves commendation for sticking to their training so well.
I dare anyone to post a police confrontation video in which they feel the cop was completely justified. Try posting a video where the police officer was not covering any sort of gray area of correctness in handling the situation, but in which every action was completely justified and necessary. Try posting a video where we feel empathy and satisfaction for the cop. I bet you'll be amazed at how many people will still hate the officer for what they did.



How are cops supposed to deal with people who endanger others by driving at ridiculous speeds? Please tell.

And if those people resist when they're pulled over, what's a cop to do?

>> ^shuac:

Fuck that kid and his lawsuit should be filed up his ass.
Mistake #1: He immediately got out of the car with a hand in his pocket
If you do this, then you should not feign surprise that you're being yelled at. Cops are far less interested in talking to you than you might expect when you immediately get out of your car with a hand in your pocket. MUCH less interested than you think. They are more interested in getting control of a possibly hostile situation. There are far too many situations of cops being shot because they failed to gain control ( see below). If this is something you cannot understand, then stop reading this post and go out and get some more life experience. Armchair judging is fun and everything and it's shocking how little effort it takes, believe me...I understand the impulse.
Mistake #2: He failed to follow the cop's orders after being told dozens and dozens of fucking times.
Again, if this is something you feel is okie-dokie, then have at it, Hoss. Just don't get all litigious and expect any support from me (not that that's the gold standard or anything). The cop is under NO OBLIGATION to talk to the perp in such a situation. The kid forfeited the right to talk about why he was pulled over the instant he exited his vehicle with his hand in his pocket. And if you don't understand how hostile it is for someone to ignore a cop's repeated commands like this, then you are a fucking moron. I'm afraid it's that simple.

http://youtu.be/qoI4G1fWmEQ
http://youtu.be/rgXQK3NfRY4
http://youtu.be/2sxwvkVzhyA
http://youtu.be/MEpUtoUzE4U
So to sum up: this kid deserved to be tasered and I'm glad he was.


Those links of yours are so sad and very instructive of the kind of shit cops have to deal with and why they feel so threatened when someone comes out of the car aggressively with a baggy jacket and their hand in their pocket and ignoring lawful orders. I sifted all of them:
http://videosift.com/video/Two-cops-killed-during-traffic-stop
http://videosift.com/video/Texas-ranger-shot-at-point-blank-in-routine-speeding-stop
http://videosift.com/video/Police-officer-murdered-by-two-men-during-traffic-stop
http://videosift.com/video/Cop-shot-in-face-during-routine-traffic-stop-survives

statistics, physical reality:
no matter how many times I flip a coin and get heads up the next toss is still an equal chance to come up heads or tails.

No matter how many stops a police officer makes, the results are 4 times more likely to end up in a dead civilian than in a dead cop at any one stop. in other words if stops result in 10 cops killed in a year the same number of stops resulted in 40 civilians killed. On a stop by stop basis the risk is 4 times greater for the civilian.

If a cop makes 100 stops in a year he may be more likely to end up dead in that year than a person who gets stopped once during that year but that doesn't change the odds at any one stop.

At any one traffic stop the risk is four times greater that the civilian will end up dead. Most stops end well but I don't find it reasonable for the person who is definitely armed and dangerous to always assume that the other person is the dangerous one by default. Especially since statistics show that cops are more likely to commit crimes than the general population and that each interaction with a police officer is more likely to end up badly for the civilian than for the cop.

It also seems to me that starting any interaction off with an attack and / or assumptions about the other person not based on any evidence will definitely make the situation more dangerous for all participants.

Facts? Okay, 1 out of four go bad for cops as opposed. K. But there are 1000 or more citizens than cops. So, individual cops get the bad end of the stick most often than individuals by and large--thanks for the stat you just provided.And the death ratio is far high for cops too. (I am not saying abuse doesn't matter, but it doesn't matter as much as death...)

So when you say, "Clearly the individual should have more to fear" you are, clearly incorrect (By your own stat.)

Additionally, "Fear" and "blind power" can never go together. It has to be one or the other.


I agree some cops act either-or, which makes them thugs. They should be prosecuted. Did you also know who the more likely applicant for suicide is? Cops... Why? Who knows. Probably the same psychological reason that more commit crimes.



>> ^swedishfriend:

Reality!!!
Tazing is supposed to be used instead of deadly force (it is very dangerous to taze someone). At what point would any of this man's behavior constitute a reason to use deadly force?
Traffic stops end badly for the one being pulled over far more often than for the cop (4 to 1 as I recall). Clearly the cop should feel 4 times less worried than the man. The cop is the one being offensive both statistically and by being the more aggressive in this situation.
Cops are 2-10 times more likely to be a criminal than the general population depending on the type of crime you look at the statistics for (percentage of cops who are convicted of rape is double of that of the general male population. Statistics for murder was 4 times the general population). And that is despite the difficulty in prosecuting a cop for any crime.
Clearly, the general population has far more to fear from a police officer than a police officer has to fear from the general population in a situation like this so I don't find it reasonable for anyone to just blindly do what an officer asks them to do since the balance of danger is so greatly skewed against the private citizen. Nor do I find it reasonable for an officer to assume they are in all kinds of danger and act as if they are when they clearly are not in any danger and are being more aggressive than the suspected person.
Considering we live in the USA the police should be very careful around other people not the other way around. The public servant should not be in a position of power over the general population. Considering the protections of the constitution and the bill of rights not much could be considered a lawful order by a police officer. The officer would need good evidence of a crime just to even ask the suspect a question (reasonable cause).
The cops and their training is why the city had to pay out a settlement. The man acted quite reasonably if you believe in a free society and right to privacy. The cop acted out of fear and blind power.
The man gets out of car to talk to cop. Cop yells at man. man does not get into a more vulnerable position after being attacked like that (that would be suicidal in an evolutionary sense). Man continues to try to calmly resolve the situation while the cop continues to attack. At what point is it reasonable to turn your back on an attacker, to get into a more vulnerable position? It never is! At all points the man was more calm and less threatening than the cop was!

Reality!!!

Tazing is supposed to be used instead of deadly force (it is very dangerous to taze someone). At what point would any of this man's behavior constitute a reason to use deadly force?

Traffic stops end badly for the one being pulled over far more often than for the cop (4 to 1 as I recall). Clearly the cop should feel 4 times less worried than the man. The cop is the one being offensive both statistically and by being the more aggressive in this situation.

Cops are 2-10 times more likely to be a criminal than the general population depending on the type of crime you look at the statistics for (percentage of cops who are convicted of rape is double of that of the general male population. Statistics for murder was 4 times the general population). And that is despite the difficulty in prosecuting a cop for any crime.

Clearly, the general population has far more to fear from a police officer than a police officer has to fear from the general population in a situation like this so I don't find it reasonable for anyone to just blindly do what an officer asks them to do since the balance of danger is so greatly skewed against the private citizen. Nor do I find it reasonable for an officer to assume they are in all kinds of danger and act as if they are when they clearly are not in any danger and are being more aggressive than the suspected person.

Considering we live in the USA the police should be very careful around other people not the other way around. The public servant should not be in a position of power over the general population. Considering the protections of the constitution and the bill of rights not much could be considered a lawful order by a police officer. The officer would need good evidence of a crime just to even ask the suspect a question (reasonable cause).

The cops and their training is why the city had to pay out a settlement. The man acted quite reasonably if you believe in a free society and right to privacy. The cop acted out of fear and blind power.

The man gets out of car to talk to cop. Cop yells at man. man does not get into a more vulnerable position after being attacked like that (that would be suicidal in an evolutionary sense). Man continues to try to calmly resolve the situation while the cop continues to attack. At what point is it reasonable to turn your back on an attacker, to get into a more vulnerable position? It never is! At all points the man was more calm and less threatening than the cop was!

And I'm no nearer to understanding your point, it seems. Most of us are talking about the specific events in the video, but you seem to be making a sweeping generalization about adherents of certain political philosophies.

I do agree that confronting a cop at a random traffic stop isn't a way to affect societal change. It's also not likely to result in you being let off the hook for whatever thing they stopped you for.

But I don't really think that's something high-level like political ideology, so much as a more fundamental question of emotional self-control, and learning the requisite social skills for dealing with authority figures.

>> ^chilaxe:

When liberals and libertarians makes themselves get tazed, it's because they're trying to resolve whatever complaint they have at the moment instead of after the fact.
If they believe they shouldn't have to comply with lawful orders, or that cops should be nicer, they could deal with it after the fact or before the fact by making legislative efforts, and if the voting population agrees with them, they'll be successful.

Nice facting.>> ^Sagemind:

"A woman was arrested for videotaping police from her front yard in Rochester, New York.
Emily Good, 28, was recording a traffic stop where police had a man handcuffed on May 12th. The video was uploaded to Blip TV today. The cop who arrested her has been identified as Mario Masic"
- http://www.pixiq.com/rochester-police-arrest-woman-for-videotaping
-them.html

"Emily Good, 28, was arrested about 10 p.m. May 12 and charged with second-degree obstructing governmental administration. She is scheduled to appear in Rochester City Court for a proceeding on Monday, police said."
- http://www.democratand
chronicle.com/article/20110622/NEWS01/106220324/Emily-Good-arrested-while-videotaping-city-police?


Also I feel like they arrested Jenna Fischer, judging by her voice.

"A woman was arrested for videotaping police from her front yard in Rochester, New York.
Emily Good, 28, was recording a traffic stop where police had a man handcuffed on May 12th. The video was uploaded to Blip TV today. The cop who arrested her has been identified as Mario Masic"
- http://www.pixiq.com/rochester-police-arrest-woman-for-videotaping-them.html


"Emily Good, 28, was arrested about 10 p.m. May 12 and charged with second-degree obstructing governmental administration. She is scheduled to appear in Rochester City Court for a proceeding on Monday, police said."
- http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20110622/NEWS01/106220324/Emily-Good-arrested-while-videotaping-city-police?

>> ^handmethekeysyou:

I tried googling this. Not a single report or study devoted to "
how many traffic stops per year result in shootings" on the first page. Unsurprisingly, many sensationalist news stories.>> ^MrFisk:
How many cars are pulled over in the U.S., in a year? How many result in a fatality to the officer? I'm trying to figure out if it's more likely they'll be shot, hit by lightning, or bitten by a shark.



Try googling "cop killed during traffic stop"