>> ^blankfist:
Wait... when did we start talking about health care reform? I thought this was about a man showing up in the town hall carrying an AR15.

We're talking about health care because the man with the AR15 says he'll use the AR15 if we pass health care reform, because it's somehow imposing on his personal liberty.

Again, he's using your definition of personal liberty -- having a veto over all taxes and regulations passed by the government that he doesn't agree with. He doesn't seem put off by the idea of using violence, or at least the threat of violence to enact that veto.

Will people in 2960 be looking at this clip, and calling him a founding father, and one of the leaders of a righteous revolution? Or will they be disgusted at the idea that there were once people so confused as to literally threaten revolution rather than adopt a new, still primarily private, health care system that in all likelihood will improve his coverage, and not cost him an extra dime in taxes?

This video needs to be seen by more people, especially those at these town hall meetings who are comparing Obama to Hitler. It just fuels my anger whenever I see fuckheads on Faux News raving about how we have "the best health care in the world"... Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, I hope you know there is a special place in hell for you.

Oh no no no. I do not embrace the idea of generational sovereignty, but like the idyllic message it tries to convey over it practical application. Especially how debt shouldn't be created and passed on to future generations, though you disagree with that. I also like the idea of not passing the laws of one generation onto another, or at the very least having a review process for them or something. Who knows, but I can't imagine a law against talking on a cell phone while driving will do the people much good in 2960 AD.

I don't understand your definition of liberty. Disenfranchise? Having more personal liberty doesn't disenfranchise. Having less of it does.

Wait... when did we start talking about health care reform? I thought this was about a man showing up in the town hall carrying an AR15.

"But I must note with delicious irony the absolute hypocrisy of Frank and the neolibs on this Hitler thing. It wasn't too long ago that calling your President "Hitler", making movies about assassinating him, wishing he & his family were dead, and all kinds of other awful stuff was considered the 'new patriotism'. Now according to Frank it is, "vile, contemptible nonsense"... Ah - sweet hypocrisy... How you neolibs do so revel in it."

I have to say that you are building yourself quite the straw man here. Frank never made a film about killing Bush nor did he ever call Bush Hitler or wished Bush and his family ill will. Since we are talking about the man himself, it is a rather weak argument to clump him with "neolibs" and then go on to list things that "neolibs" may or may not have done and assign the blame to Frank himself. I am sure there were lots crazy people doing crazy things while Bush was in office, but that has no bearing Frank or the validity of the argument he made in that town hall. It is disingenuous at best.

That example of people getting kicked out of Bush events for disagreeing with him is just one of many.

At the vast majority of his "town halls" the audience was screened and only pro-Bush people were allowed to attend.

Tags for this video have been changed from 'health care, town hall, dining room table' to 'obama, hitler, nazi, health care, town hall, dining room table' - edited by calvados

>> ^EndAll:
>> ^griefer_queafer:
>> ^EndAll:
Not the best way to discredit Truthers.. This is just retarded. Does a disservice to skeptics who actually have well-structured rebuttals for the conspiracies.

I respectfully disagree, Endall. Don't you think there is a way in which the absurd simplicity is kind of effective?
Its kind of the way I feel when I watch videos of these town hall meetings. In a way one might want to try and reason with these people, but after a while you have to kind of just sigh and write it off. Despite the condescending ending to Gjersten's vid, i think this work is kind of like a big sigh

Apples and oranges - the events around 9/11 warrant serious questioning and public inquiry - the townhall meeting protests are just stupid bullshit. I agree there need be no serious debate about whether or not the airplanes actually hit - there's no question about that, they did - but there's a lot more to what happened that needs to be looked into. Most truthers will tell you that the planes did hit, but that there were explosives in place as well. I don't make any claims about that, but it might help clear things up a bit.


But the whole truther movement is based around planted explosives in the buildings, is it not? All the videos and information I've gone through hold that in common.
The thing is if the terrorists were able to plant demolition charges in the building, why bother with the airplanes?
If the government was behind it, and they planted the explosives, the question is still why they should bother with the airplanes? It's still easily blamed on the terrorists, it wouldn't even be the first time that terrorists had used explosives against the towers.

The Truther movement's questions do not warrant investigation or follow-up, and I see open ridicule as good a tool as any to keep the gullible from being drawn into their BS. Even if the government WAS behind the attacks, the Truther movement would actually be even worse BS, by dragging a whole class of people questioning the official story off on some goose chase after imaginary demolition charges.

>> ^griefer_queafer:
>> ^EndAll:
Not the best way to discredit Truthers.. This is just retarded. Does a disservice to skeptics who actually have well-structured rebuttals for the conspiracies.

I respectfully disagree, Endall. Don't you think there is a way in which the absurd simplicity is kind of effective?
Its kind of the way I feel when I watch videos of these town hall meetings. In a way one might want to try and reason with these people, but after a while you have to kind of just sigh and write it off. Despite the condescending ending to Gjersten's vid, i think this work is kind of like a big sigh


Apples and oranges - the events around 9/11 warrant serious questioning and public inquiry - the townhall meeting protests are just stupid bullshit. I agree there need be no serious debate about whether or not the airplanes actually hit - there's no question about that, they did - but there's a lot more to what happened that needs to be looked into. Most truthers will tell you that the planes did hit, but that there were explosives in place as well. I don't make any claims about that, but it might help clear things up a bit.

>> ^blankfist:
>> ^NetRunner:

Well if auto insurance covered oil changes and all kinds of other preventative maintenance services, then you would see oil changes costing hundreds of dollars.
Jiffy Lube wouldn't post prices, but instead when they come to you asking if you want to "flush your radiator and replace your timing belt" you wouldn't ask "How much? And is it necessary?" You'd just say "sure" and the auto insurance company would front the bill.
That's what drives up costs.


Mark this day on your calendar. You're 100% correct.

Problem is, with a car repair, I'm never in a hurry. If the mechanic recommends something that's too expensive, I can comparison shop. If no one can fix the problem at a price I can afford, I'll have to take the bus.

If on the other hand, some dickhead starts spraying gunfire at a health care town hall, and I get hit with a bullet, I'm not going to shop around. Chances are, I'll tell the doctor "do whatever you have to, just save me!" My insurance company may later decide that the bullet-wound was a preexisting condition, or more likely that they won't cover me because I didn't call my GP before calling 911. The doctor won't worry about costs, he'll save me anyways, but the bill will likely bankrupt me.

So where does that leave us?

You say I need more opportunity to comparison shop for bullet-wound repair, and that if I can't afford the service, I should just go without it and die.

I'm saying that stopping my insurance company from playing games is as important as controlling costs. So first, let's stop the insurance company from wiggling out on me.

Second, let's stop people from waiting until they're sick to start paying for insurance, since the companies now must cover people who're paid up on premiums, even if they're sick.

Third, let's realize that there are lots of people who will have trouble paying premiums, so let's set up a subsidy to help them out.

Fourth, let's make sure people are taking advantage of preventive care, since it's much cheaper to treat someone for high blood pressure than it is to treat them for a heart attack.

Fifth, let's set up programs for doing comparative effectiveness research, so we can get some objective science on what we're paying for, to make sure that people know if certain types of treatments are a good value.

Sixth, let's set up a standard format for electronically exchanging medical records and test results so specialists aren't re-doing tests that have already been performed by ER or GP physicians.

Seventh, let's set up a national marketplace for individual insurance, and ensure that customers are given clear, standardized information for comparing between the insurance offerings.

Eighth, let's set up a public, non-profit insurance plan to provide a basic level of care, and to help drive down the cost of the private offerings.

There's more detail in the full plan, but that's a lot of the big elements of the plan.

>> ^EndAll:
Not the best way to discredit Truthers.. This is just retarded. Does a disservice to skeptics who actually have well-structured rebuttals for the conspiracies.


I respectfully disagree, Endall. Don't you think there is a way in which the absurd simplicity is kind of effective?

Its kind of the way I feel when I watch videos of these town hall meetings. In a way one might want to try and reason with these people, but after a while you have to kind of just sigh and write it off. Despite the condescending ending to Gjersten's vid, i think this work is kind of like a big *sigh*

Sadly, the screaming morons at the town halls get all the attention. I wish all these people would stand up and be counted.

>> ^kronosposeidon:
What purpose does it serve to bring a gun to a town hall meeting? Pure intimidation, that's all. Assholery.

I brought my gun to your brown-hole meaty... I mean, townhall meeting.

What purpose does it serve to bring a gun to a town hall meeting? Pure intimidation, that's all. Assholery.

Now if it had been a McCain event all you would have needed was a "Bush = McCain" sign to get thrown out.

The stigma against universal health care started all the way back in the 60s where it was connected with socialism and by extension communism which is ingrained in the US mind from the time of Ronald Reagen and his famous scariest sentence in the english language am from the government and am here to help.

The people don't hear the facts anymore, they hear what they want to hear. Look at any town hall debate on the healthcare issue. There is no facts pushed out at all. Its all opinions. Which are like assholes, everyone has one.

In reply to this comment by JiggaJonson:
Strangely enough when I discuss it with people they often mention the system proposed as a fascist movement of some sort, that much I can attest to. There are not enough hours in teh day to listen to all the right wing bullshit they must be filling their heads with but the people in opposition to the plan, simply put, are misinformed.

QM: Who are you quoting in the sift description? You should give the voices in your head some credit.

Also, this reporter is asking Gibbs why the questions that haven't been asked yet will be soft-balls, and why the town-hall, that hadn't been held yet, will be padded with Obama supporters.

Where was the outrage when bush was filling halls with registered republicans, and having those that displayed even the smallest sign of dissent forcibly removed?