I started driving in Montreal for 12 years, and moved to Toronto for another 13 years. These 2 cities always had a bit of a rivalry. Montreal drivers calling Toronto drivers stupid idiots and Toronto's calling Montreal's crazy speed demons. These stereotypes are both accurate. Comparatively I'd feel safer with Montreal's crazy speed demons all around me any day -- they speed pass you of the left, they signal, they don't hog the left lane most of the time. Overall more skillful. Things like the above video happen in Montreal once in a blue moon. Toronto, way too often.

I often road tripped around the Buffalo, NY - Washington DC corridors and I'd say even they are better drivers (in terms of skillfulness & situational awareness) than Torontonians...

Thanks Silvercord, I do believe you've articulated yourself here better than I have. I don't take much issue with anything you've said above and I think we agree more than we disagree.

You're right, I'm from Canada. I have a unique perspective of American culture at the same time as living in the most culturally diverse city in the world. Here, multiculturalism is enshrined in law. We see ourselves as a mosaic instead of a melting pot. Something I'm quite proud of. (but not all Canadians feel the same way) There are plenty of conflicts of culture to choose from around here.

But when I'm speaking about an individuals 'fundamental human rights', I'm not speaking as a Canadian, or Torontonian or North American, I'm speaking as a human. And when I stated that religious/cultural rights were trumped by physical ones I didn't mean to suggest they were non-existent. The Klu Klux Klan for example is a religious organization (or at least that's what they call them selves) as is the Westboro Baptist Church and it's because their rights "extend to the tips of their noses" that they can't impose their will over people they believe are lesser than themselves. They are free to carry hateful ideas around in their heads, (as is their "right") but if it causes them to commit hateful actions, they are breaking the law.

The same can be said of the baker and the photographer. Albeit of varying degrees. The reason the baker and photographer have a sacred idea of marriage being only between a man and a woman is because of an intolerance of homosexuality. You say they're not intolerant because they serve the gay community in every other aspect outside of marriage and I say if there is any way they treat the gay community differently than that is the very definition of discrimination. Again, it's just in varying degrees.

What if I held a religious belief that marriage was only between a white man and a white woman and refused to supply services to anyone outside of that definition? "Sorry we can't in good conscience go there. Oh, it's not you, it's me." I would be running my business in a discriminatory fashion and I would pay a fine. As it should be.

Might I suggest if you want to be selective as to who you will serve and who you won't based on the physical attributes someone was born with, that you keep those reasons to yourself and politely refuse service to those people citing a scheduling conflict or artistic differences. Because to stand up proudly saying you don't recognize gay marriage or mixed race coupling as your 'fundamental human right' is offensive. By all means, carry your intolerant ideas in your head, just don't carry out intolerant actions and think the rest of the community has to respect you for them.

"Let me ask you, have you ever seen a law change someone's heart? I haven't."

Um, no, you're right. It doesn't work that way. But laws do create culture if not for this generation, than for the next. As Yogi stated above; "Eventually these people will die, and the old husks and their followers left behind will spur further movements towards greater equality." A little harsh perhaps, but when you you think back to the '40s, '50s and '60s and the how attitudes and culture have changed for the Black community you can't deny that civil rights laws have made the world a better place, for equality and for everyone.

I don't have the will to invest 16 minutes to find out why. I think it must depend on the type of community you live in. I live in Toronto, and there's no way in hell you'd catch me on a bike here, helmet or not... Torontonians are the worst drivers I've ever seen (myself excepted, of course). It's dangerous enough driving a damned car here.

Big upvote here from a Torontonian who loves Yonge Street!

Where's the Torontonians at?
*beg

I am indeed.

In reply to this comment by Krupo:
Sarzy, are you a Torontonian? I think I knew that but forgot.

Sarzy, are you a Torontonian? I think I knew that but forgot.

Well, in defense of my fellow Torontonians: it's tough to focus on one bright spot in the dark, particularly on a cameraphone (which I'm assuming this and the other ones were shot on) with limited (if any) manual controls.

>> ^legacy0100:
People tell me Canada is a paradise, good health care and laid back and all that.
Not when I visited Montreal. It reminded me a lot of NYC.


Heh heh, as a Torontonian, I say "ouch."

But seriously, Montreal is great. When I was there last month there wasn't a trace of the earlier chaos.

See, the problem isn't so much soft Torontonians, but stupid-ass media that have a collective journo-gasm over snowflakes. They sicken me.

I'm SO pissed off about the 8 degree Celsius weather for Sunday. Our beloved snow might melt away into nothingness.

A negative review of the new lights, when they were being tested - this is the text from the "second story" in the summary.


If you like Honda Civics modded with blue neon, enormous spoilers and V-Tech stickers, you're gonna love what's happening to Toronto's most iconic structure.

Management of Canada's National Tower (formerly the Canadian National Tower) have begun testing the unfortunate new animated LEDs that were recently installed, dramatically transforming a brilliant exercise in modernist subtlety into a cheap, plastic martini spear. The "intelligent LED" colour effects will permanently go live after a launch event at sunset on June 28.

Environmentally, the new lighting system uses 10% less energy than conventional illumination (and 60% less than the previous dimly-lit setup, which was dismantled in 1996). The 1,330 LED panels are each about the size of a shoebox and the system is designed by Color Kinetics of Boston. The panels are located up the central shaft windows, at the base of each tier of the upper mast, and around the "bubble" beneath the Sky Pod.

The lighting effects are microprocessor controlled and can be animated in psychedelic patterns and in virtually any combination of colours. Last night's gaudy, rapidly-changing colours alarmed many Torontonians, though CN Tower management claims the lighting will be more subtle and won't be shifting as rapidly as it has been during testing.

We'll see about that. We think that whatever happens in Vegas should stay in Vegas.


Since installation I've found them to look really cool, giving new 'visual life' to the venerable tower.

Bring the hate! As a lifetime Torontonian, the only argument that I can understand for hating Toronto is the Hockey Night in Toronto thing. When I went out west during the playoffs a few years ago, that was the biggest legitimate gripe and I totally agree.

That being said, being heckled through two hockey games by some loser in an Edmonton bar because of where I happened to pop out of a womb really didn't teach me much except that people who suck live everywhere, not just Toronto.

First answer, "because we feel nothing but pity for Montreal after the raw deal they got from the separatists".

Second answer, "because provincialism never dies, just ask Paris."



BTW, Abel, here's a telling response - it's not just "one of it's cities" - it's the largest most successful and cosmopolitan city in the country."

Same way how small town folk are afraid of places like NYC.

Torontonians visit NYC and go, "yeah, it's all super dense and that's cool", but it's basically home on steroids with less trees.

This is part of CityTV's On the Spot series. It's no huge revelation that Torontonians are, mostly, wusses.

Part 1: Shoplifting (one guess which shoplifter gets people to report him)

Part 2: Littering

Part 3: Sneezing and cell phones

Part 4: Upcoming

Holy F*CK!!! I am Canadian (Torontonian) and this makes my blood boil. I'm seriously so angry, I'm at a total loss for words.