THATS HOW YOU FUCKIN APOLOGIZE, Tony Hayward could learn a thing or two.

@Porksandwich those all sound like good ideas. I especially like the idea of trying to make rehabilitation more of a core function of our justice system. It seems like once someone's been found guilty, society at large just writes them off as if they're no longer fully human.

The whole concept of justice and crime and punishment is just rife with deep philosophical questions.

Take A Clockwork Orange for example. What's the just way to deal with someone like Alex? Lock him up? Execute him? Brainwash him so he's rendered physiologically incapable of giving in to his dark impulses? But he's a special case, and clearly mentally ill. A mental hospital is almost certainly the right place for him.

How about someone like Scott Roeder, who murdered Dr. George Tiller for running an abortion clinic? He's probably not clinically insane, he's just acting in what he considers a highly moral fashion -- he's preventing the extermination of hundreds, if not thousands of innocent lives, by taking the life of one man, knowing that his life, and possibly even his immortal soul is forfeit in doing so. I say that's mental illness too, but there's more than a few people out there who think he's a hero and a martyr. Would it be serving justice if we could "cure" him of his convictions? I'm not entirely comfortable with that, but I don't see how he's safe to release back into society with his beliefs intact.

How about Lloyd Blankfein, or Tony Hayward? They gambled the lives and livelihoods of millions of people, knowing that it was a "heads I win", "tails they lose" situation. But that's their entire job function -- to find a way to exploit economic opportunities to make money, wherever they find them. Every pressure on them inside the company and within the culture they live in was for them to do the immoral, profitable thing. In this case, I think these guys' real crime is that they gave in to peer pressure, which is not exactly a tremendous moral failing. Shouldn't we blame those who pressured them? Maybe the entire social and economic structure that's designed to encourage this kind of behavior in the first place? What court can rule on that?

Instead, on VS, the only debate people seem to want to have is "are cops evil or not?"

Since when is life so black and white?

@Winstonfield_Pennypacker I'd go another round with you, but it's clear you just wanna flap your gums about fictitious versions of me and liberals and Obama, and are so utterly disconnected from reality that you aren't even responding to things I actually said.

I mean seriously, you literally snipped out the phrase "I'm sure there will be congressional oversight", and cut off the part where I said why I thought that, and acted as though there is a series of facts and history in which congressional oversight is never applied when a political food fight breaks out over something.

There's part of your fever dream I agree with -- namely, the rich and the powerful never get held accountable for anything. Tony Hayward is back to racing yachts, Lloyd Blankfein didn't even lose his job, and is already paying himself huge bonuses again, and Bush and Cheney are free men.

The reasoning the Israeli ambassador offered for refusing an international inquiry into the incident was total lameness. He compared it to America's refusal to participate in any international war crimes tribunal involving U.S. servicemen, basically saying that it would be just as unfair. Well guess what, asshole? America should participate in war crimes tribunals involving its troops. ALL nations should. And Israel's actions shouldn't escape formal scrutiny either.

Colbert went too easy on him. And why did he even have to mention Helen Thomas at the end? One reporter says some bad shit about Israel, and suddenly Israel has become a victim?

If Colbert had the balls to mercilessly mock the President of the United States of America at the White House Correspondents Dinner a few years ago, then he certainly could have been tougher with an ambassador, from ANY nation. And before someone says it, I know Colbert is a comedian, and not a newsman. But if he's going to tackle such a serious issue where nine people were fucking killed, just recently, then he should ditch the levity, at least for the few minutes that it took to get through the interview. I would expect the same if he brought Tony Hayward on the show. It's hard to get jokey about a huge environmental disaster and the deaths of 11 workers. Or at least it should be, for the ones responsible.

</rant>

>> ^ponceleon:

>> ^kronosposeidon:
I dare Tony Hayward to drink just one glass of water from the Gulf Coast right now. Let him prove to us that the oil and dispersant levels are nothing to worry about. motherfucker

Well, as much of a fuck up as it is, I'm not sure your statement makes much sense... the gulf is salt-water. Even if it was clean, he'd probably not be well-advised to drink a full glass of it!

Drinking just one glass of regular old ocean water ain't gonna hurt you. Now I wouldn't drink a glass if it were suspected that irukandji were in it, but then I don't really have to worry about that unless I'm visitng @dag. And I wouldn't drink ocean water from any coast that Paris Hilton frequents. And I definitely wouldn't touch the shit in the Gulf these days.

Speaking of drinking bad water, the father of the U.S. Navy's nuclear propulsion program, Hyman Rickover, actually drank primary coolant from a ship's nuclear reactor before Congress to prove that it was safe. That actually is a dumb thing to do, because that's the same water the circulates directly through the reactor itself, both cooling it and moderating the reactions in the fuel cells. But then he didn't die until he was 86. YMMV.

So, how about those Yankees?

>> ^Throbbin:

Whose side are you on?!?!?!?!>> ^ponceleon:
>> ^kronosposeidon:
I dare Tony Hayward to drink just one glass of water from the Gulf Coast right now. Let him prove to us that the oil and dispersant levels are nothing to worry about. motherfucker

Well, as much of a fuck up as it is, I'm not sure your statement makes much sense... the gulf is salt-water. Even if it was clean, he'd probably not be well-advised to drink a full glass of it!



Well I'm definitely against BP, but I do believe in making good statements of criticism...

Whose side are you on?!?!?!?!>> ^ponceleon:

>> ^kronosposeidon:
I dare Tony Hayward to drink just one glass of water from the Gulf Coast right now. Let him prove to us that the oil and dispersant levels are nothing to worry about. motherfucker

Well, as much of a fuck up as it is, I'm not sure your statement makes much sense... the gulf is salt-water. Even if it was clean, he'd probably not be well-advised to drink a full glass of it!

>> ^kronosposeidon:

I dare Tony Hayward to drink just one glass of water from the Gulf Coast right now. Let him prove to us that the oil and dispersant levels are nothing to worry about. motherfucker


Well, as much of a fuck up as it is, I'm not sure your statement makes much sense... the gulf is salt-water. Even if it was clean, he'd probably not be well-advised to drink a full glass of it!

I dare Tony Hayward to drink just one glass of *water from the Gulf Coast right now. Let him prove to us that the oil and dispersant levels are nothing to worry about. *motherfucker

[redacted]

MaxWilder is 100% correct. BP CEO Tony Hayward made it very clear that the goal is a return to "production". Watching many of the BP ROV feeds the last couple weeks and it's obvious the main purpose of the "containment cap" is to get some oil into a damn tanker, not stopping the leak. "Containment" is NOT the same as stopping flow. If they wanted to stop it, they could have done it in a week, immho. Cut the bolts on flange currently just below the cap with that fancy-shmancy diamond blade, silver seal, tree, close valves. Take your sweet time with the relief wells. Easy peasy (although it may be not so easy-peasy a mile down).

The condition of the pipe directly above the upper flange of the BOP after the shear op made it virtually unsealable using the inflatable gasket within the cap as they had described. Reports of increasing oil capture rates mean nothing when thousands of barrels a day are still pouring out the bottom of the cap. We were told that as they close off vents of the cap, the rates of recovered oil will increase. Bullshit. The vents were wide open when they put that puppy on, and you couldn't even see the the thing because so much oil was leaking through the bottom seals. Closing off the vents may increase the pressure of oil heading up the pipe, but it will also increase the amount of pressure on the seal (5000ft of head notwithstanding). Seems to me the only way make the current containment cap work is if some super-duper pump is able to suck (I know... pumps don't suck; day one of "A" school) oil up 5000 feet of pipe faster than the oil is flowing out the top of the BOP.

I just checked the BP feeds (Skandi ROV 1, Skandi ROV 2, and Enterprise ROV 1), and the amount of oil flowing out the bottom of the cap is only slightly improved from when they slapped the thing on there.

http://www.bp.com/genericarticle.do?categoryId=9033572&contentId=7062605

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