@berticus yeah.. this sift does seem to fall flat on it's ass, halfway through reading that PDF. When you think of some of the workplace workgroups (communication seminars.. ect.).. which fuel the whole self help movement:

"Injunctions to ‘‘think positively’’ are pervasive in North America.
Self-help books, television shows, and loved ones advise
thinking positively when one faces a challenge or is unhappy.
Yet the present results suggest that for certain people, positive
self-statements may be not only ineffective, but actually detrimental.
When people with low self-esteem repeated the statement,
‘‘I’m a lovable person’’ (Study 2), or focused on ways in
which this statement was true of them (Study 3), neither their
feelings about themselves nor their moods improved—"

I got more reading to do
Regards,
ZDM

Exactly. I am so not into self help books but The Gift of Fear is an interesting read. Most of what we call fear is really anxiety based worry. True fear is a primal instinct and learning the difference cam save lives. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gift_of_Fear

>> ^blankfist:

Seems the real objection people have with other people's right to open carry is that they're afraid of that person even without provocation. Fear vs reason.

I’m Walking Away
Like Dear Abby Told Me
I’m Walking Away
My Shrink Gave His O.K.
I’m Walking Away
The Self Help Book Implored Me
I’m Walking Away
Jubilation Day

I’m Walking Away
My Best Friend All Had Warned Me
I’m Walking Away
Even Your Mom Said You Were Nuts
In My Dreams
You Wear A Red Cape and A Pitchfork
I’m Walking Away
Jubilation Day

I’m Walking Away
Let Me Get My Things
I’m Walking Away
Where’d You Hide My Banjo Strings

I’m Walking Away
I’ll Be Over You by Lunch Time
I’m Walking Away
Jubilation Day

I’m Walking Away
Let’s Always Remember The Good Times
I’m Walking away
Like When You Were Out Of Town
I’m Walking Away
But The Sex Was Great
I’m Walking Away
At least Thats What My Best Friends Brother Said
I’m Walking Away
You Know Your Right We Should Always Stay In Touch
I’m Walking Away
This Is Your New E-Mail Address Right
Cheatin,pyscho,dish-throwin, hoe dot nut
Bye

Side note-God, my response is long... I hate long posts and so hate my own post...

There was a time when I would have insulted you for such a... magical fairytale-type post. However, age has tempered my youthful arrogance and I will attempt to be more respectful.

You have an illusion that is polar opposite from the fanatics who propose that God is our savior and that if everyone follows his word we will all be saved… (Your argument is that the belief in God is our destroyer and that if everyone abandons his word we will all be striving for the betterment of humanity…) You assume that religion is not the excuse for war but the problem itself... If religion is truly the excuse, as I claim, there will be more wars even if religion is abolished and all the wars that have happened, not in the name and constant glorification of God, but for other reasons, will repeat themselves. If religion is the problem, as you state, then wars will dry up and poof, comfort for the world. The betterment of mankind… Um, I need to write a self-help booklet with a title like that…

Think of your ideal utopia... and now, make it real. No wars, no conflict (like trade wars, where entire areas starve out, etcetera,) on massive scales leading to the degradation of other countries. Nothing interesting for the news huh? Just a few murders and social discord now and again? Just near-utopia? No massive riots when corporations cause the subjugation and poverty of millions... No mass rape in Africa? Can someone say boring!

Sorry, I can only respect your opinion so much. I understand your opinion but think it a little wishful thinking. I wish you were right on the money and that religion was the cause, but the rose-colored glasses are not for me. You asked an A/B question and the answer is a mix of A and B-We certainly would invade another planet and try to reason with them. If our terms (The complete surrender of their finate resources and land) of reasoning failed, we would kill them all and take their resources.

Christianity was the excuse we used on the Indians not because we truly believed in god, but because A-It is a form of control and B-It makes us the savior instead of the animal. As I said before, we cannot slaughter because of greed... we need another reason. In other words, religion is a tool and if broken, we will make another one.

Let's look at some wars fought around the world and why... Vietnam? The expansion of communism (Because, we Americans could not abide our competitor actually advancing.) Iraq? Boredom and glory. Rome's barbarity? Conquest. Germany? Racial superiority. The American Civil War? Expansion of Federal powers. The hundreds of mini-conflicts between warring peoples due to poverty? Starvation. The crusades? Religion. Does religion win over in history as the leading cause? Yes. Has religion been involved in the aforementioned wars as a secondary motivator?-No, not even motivator, I mean excuse?-Yes. Germany was supported by the pope and hunted a religious people---for the resources. (Also, just because those nations I used as examples may have been supported by the religious or purported to be religious, they did not fight under the constant "support" or glorification of God. In other words, those wars were fought for religion as much as Iraq was fought because of weapons of mass destruction…)

Will there be something to replace religion on a massive scale if the excuse dies? Yes. Reminds me of the episode of South Park when the world fought a war simply because they could not agree on the name of their all-atheist nation...

We grow bored, we bomb Iraq. We need oil? We take it. We need other resources? Here we come. Government subjects massive amounts of people to poverty? We burn it down. By we, I mean humanity. Oh, Germany is certainly more reasonable than a few hundreds of years ago... cept that whole gassing incident... and I know Africa, a country that sold their own into slavery for the most part, is more reasonable... cept the whole raping and tribal fighting. You know one tribe fights another because they believe male-anal penetration is wrong? Yet male-oral is okay... and the other tribe thinks male-oral is fine, but anal is wrong… so naturally, they both have to kill each other…

So disagree, it’s your right. I just see a lot of "religious" stubbornness in your argument that is equal to the other side's arguments... You are basing your guesses of what might be; I am basing my estimations on what has been...

>> ^Shepppard:
Disagree completely.
If you abolish religion then you have one goal - The betterment of humanity. If everybody is on that same page and not thinking about how their lord and savior will take care of everybody in the afterlife, they'll realize that we need to fix how things are now.
Think about it, no more wars in the name of gods, no people getting killed for changing their beliefs.
Oh sure, there would still be killings of sorts, people come home and find another man with their wife and they snap. But that's never going to change.
As for the Natives of the Americas, I got news for you. They were enslaved and sent to Boarding Schools where they were forced to learn... Christianity.
I'm not exactly done with that either. Truly, you think that the people a few hundred years ago were as reasonable as we are now? Picture this, we master space travel. We find a new world inhabited by Aliens. Do you think Earth would A) Kill them all, and declare it Earth II, or B) Try to trade and reason with them?
I'm pretty sure most of us would vote option B. With time we've gained knowledge. Almost everywhere has drifted away from "They're different then us, so we need to not trust them and/or kill them and claim it as ours."
Muslims are a large exception to this, and that's why it has to change.
>> ^Lawdeedaw:
What I believe most atheists do not comprehend is this—we, the human race, are a species that must believe. It is that simple. Yes, individuals can unlearn belief in the odd and stupid things we think are real, but as a whole we must believe. We believed long before God and Jesus existed, and we will believe long after. We believe in odd and crazy things when we are children because our minds are fascinated by the unknown and this spurs experimentation.
Everyone who acts as though the destruction of religion would sooth the woes of the world is silly. Instead of religion, humanity will/has find/found other ways to reclassify themselves into groups and kill/enslave everyone not in their class. Examples include are but not limited to race, gender, ethnic background, eye color, hair color, wealth, etcetera. This would not decrease with a lack of belief and the reason is simple—because we love to classify. It is a natural survival instinct that is there for the allocation of finite resources. It is easy to kill an infidel in the name of God, however, it is hard to kill the guy next to you because you are bored and/or need his resources. Indians ring a bell? Sadly, the Indians were pagan, but, more importantly, they held our land! Had to die…
See, religion is the crutch that atheists use. I am atheist myself and find that behind the gun, behind the religion, behind the boredom that leads to mania, there is always an insecure killer.

http://pulsemedia.org/2010/01/28/oprahs-neoliberal-empire/
interesting on how oprah's self help B.S. is the quintessential neo-liberal philosopy

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

Rottenseed, I am a godless heathen- but I still agree with much of Christ's message. (or at least the message of those scribes who fabricated his quotes) Evangelical Christianity makes me angry because it's really a Tony Robbins self-help group. They believe that "the lord helps those who helps themselves" is in the bible and try to live by it - but then wrap themselves up in their pious, moral superiority.

The phrase is "bleeding-heart liberals"- a group that a majority of atheists and agnostics would identify themselves with. You don't hear "bleeding heart Christians" much these days- it seems to be all about building the next McMega Church™. (apologies to Mother Theresa, the Jesuits and other religious orders that have taken vows of self-service and poverty)

QM, I agree- Australia's track record for dealing with aborigines is abysmal - I'm definitely not trying to set up a "us against you" situation, but that you would frame it that way certainly gives a good example of the reactionary neo-con point-of-view. America, fuck yeah.

I like several things he says, but especially:

"It's like mashed potatoes, but it's not mashed and it's not potatoes."

That's exactly what all these other space aliens sound like when they try to explain what "it" is. Scientology is NOT just like every other religion. No other religion is so clearly documented as a money-sucking scam. Read the well researched Hubbard bio, BARE-FACED MESSIAH on the Xenu website. No other religion keeps their genesis story secret until you reach the $200,000 level, and then you find out it is Xenu! Hubbard pasted religion on his self-help hypnosis scam, and 99.X% of the people who are alive today, and got roped into Hubbard's scam when he was alive, are no longer in the cult.

They never put old people in these videos because they are so f'd up and unintelligible, they can't even fake exuberance anymore. It is like they make a ploy for lonely, desperate young people who want new friends, and to try something mysterious, but Scientology is no longer a mystery.

Hubbard's REAL claims are as far out as red shirt's proclamations. DC-8 replicas 75 million years ago, and streets that look "much the same as they do today."

I really doubt it. Self-help is largely an enterprise designed to move money from your wallet to someone else's for nothing else in return. In short, to improve your memory you should consciously think the following whenever you receive a new piece of information: "Should I immediately discard this information or should I repeat it a few times to myself (which includes writing it down) to commit it to memory?" Being selective as to what you attempt to remember and engaging in repetitious memory encoding is the key.

"My genitals are unavailable." Ha!

This is a spot-on spoof of self help vids.

http://lyricwiki.org/R.E.M.:Country_Feedback

This flower is scorched, this film is on
On a maddening loop, these clothes
These clothes don't fit us right
I'm to blame
It's all the same
It's all the same

You come to me with the bone in your hand
You come to me with your hair curled tight
You come to me with positions

You come to me with excuses
Ducked out in a row
You wear me out
You wear me out

We've been through fake-a-breakdown
Self-hurt, plastics, collections
Self-help, self-pain
EST, psychics, fuck all

I was central, I had control
I lost my head
I need this, I need this

A paperweight, junk garage
Winter rain, a honey pot
Crazy, all the lovers have been tagged

A hotline, a wanted ad
It's crazy what you could've had

It's crazy what you could've had
It's crazy what you could've had
I need this, I need this

It's crazy what you could've had
Crazy what you could've had
I need it, I need this

It's crazy what you could've had
It's crazy what you could've had
I need this, I, I need this

It's crazy what you could've had
I need this, I need this

It's crazy what you could've had
Crazy what you could've had
I need this, I need this

Crazy what you could've had
Crazy what you could've had

UP! UP I SAY!

my president doesn't need the FSM's blessing to take office, thank you very much, and he certainly doesn't need the avatar of said deity to be some gay-hating megachurch-running self-help peddling asshat like rick warren

oh and in the words of Mark Twain, "Giving up smoking is the easiest thing in the world. I know because I've done it thousands of times"

In reply to this comment by eric3579:
Two days, that's awesome! Have you made any changes in your lifestyle to help you quit?

In reply to this comment by rottenseed:
>> ^Flood:
Up-voting even though I personally had a hard time relating to this guy's message. I'm a smoker, and so I watched it because even though I have no desire to quit, I'm open to ideas that challenge my own. What's strange is that half of his poker chips wouldn't even be on the table for me, they aren't a factor either way. Boredom? I don't think I've ever lit up because I was bored.
I'm still trying to figure out what he says for the 3rd reason (3rd poker chip) to not smoke. It sounds like he says... Slavery?

I also smoke. I am going to try and utilize his philosophy as it makes a bit of sense to me. I'm not one of those "self-help" nuts, so I don't think I'll be going to the extent of buying his book, but I can relate to his message. Smoking really doesn't make my life better (anymore). It, in many ways, hinders my life in more ways than just my health.

...this is day 2, we'll see how it goes

nah. Allen Carr made a great point when he claimed that there are no positive things for cigarettes. So far I've spent my days at work and not smoking here is easy...just gotta keep busy. The real test will be this weekend because I know I'll have a couple of cocktails. Thanks for the concern

In reply to this comment by eric3579:
Two days, that's awesome! Have you made any changes in your lifestyle to help you quit?

In reply to this comment by rottenseed:
>> ^Flood:
Up-voting even though I personally had a hard time relating to this guy's message. I'm a smoker, and so I watched it because even though I have no desire to quit, I'm open to ideas that challenge my own. What's strange is that half of his poker chips wouldn't even be on the table for me, they aren't a factor either way. Boredom? I don't think I've ever lit up because I was bored.
I'm still trying to figure out what he says for the 3rd reason (3rd poker chip) to not smoke. It sounds like he says... Slavery?

I also smoke. I am going to try and utilize his philosophy as it makes a bit of sense to me. I'm not one of those "self-help" nuts, so I don't think I'll be going to the extent of buying his book, but I can relate to his message. Smoking really doesn't make my life better (anymore). It, in many ways, hinders my life in more ways than just my health.

...this is day 2, we'll see how it goes

Two days, that's awesome! Have you made any changes in your lifestyle to help you quit?

In reply to this comment by rottenseed:
>> ^Flood:
Up-voting even though I personally had a hard time relating to this guy's message. I'm a smoker, and so I watched it because even though I have no desire to quit, I'm open to ideas that challenge my own. What's strange is that half of his poker chips wouldn't even be on the table for me, they aren't a factor either way. Boredom? I don't think I've ever lit up because I was bored.
I'm still trying to figure out what he says for the 3rd reason (3rd poker chip) to not smoke. It sounds like he says... Slavery?

I also smoke. I am going to try and utilize his philosophy as it makes a bit of sense to me. I'm not one of those "self-help" nuts, so I don't think I'll be going to the extent of buying his book, but I can relate to his message. Smoking really doesn't make my life better (anymore). It, in many ways, hinders my life in more ways than just my health.

...this is day 2, we'll see how it goes

>> ^Flood:
Up-voting even though I personally had a hard time relating to this guy's message. I'm a smoker, and so I watched it because even though I have no desire to quit, I'm open to ideas that challenge my own. What's strange is that half of his poker chips wouldn't even be on the table for me, they aren't a factor either way. Boredom? I don't think I've ever lit up because I was bored.
I'm still trying to figure out what he says for the 3rd reason (3rd poker chip) to not smoke. It sounds like he says... Slavery?

I also smoke. I am going to try and utilize his philosophy as it makes a bit of sense to me. I'm not one of those "self-help" nuts, so I don't think I'll be going to the extent of buying his book, but I can relate to his message. Smoking really doesn't make my life better (anymore). It, in many ways, hinders my life in more ways than just my health.

...this is day 2, we'll see how it goes