>> ^quantumushroom:

How many people has this fool killed or caused to be killed?
Zero.
How many people has islam murdered just in modern times?
Many. And they're just getting started.

Atheism has no exclusive patents on reason or intelligence. Put another way, the atheist's capacity for self-delusion is equal to that of religious folks, it just comes out differently.


You're comparing this guy...to the entire range of Islamic people? Come on QM you know that's a stupid comparison.

How many people has this fool killed or caused to be killed?

Zero.

How many people has islam murdered just in modern times?

Many. And they're just getting started.


Atheism has no exclusive patents on reason or intelligence. Put another way, the atheist's capacity for self-delusion is equal to that of religious folks, it just comes out differently.

Wow, there are still people who believe 9/11 was not based in religious beliefs? Sad, sad self-delusion.

>> ^quantumushroom:

Atheists are no more rational or free of self-delusion than Believers; these human flaws simply express themselves in different ways.
>> ^Longswd:
I don't know about happier, but I will say it's infinitely preferable to willful self-deception.


You know, I cant believe you just wrote that. No facts, findings or arguments to back it up, just an assessment. "Atheists are just as delusional" Its like a fat kid comeback to a mean tease: "Your'e also fat!" The irony is that this kind of rationalization is itself an act of self-delusion.

The act of willful self-delusion is not hard to come by in religion, take for instance the replies to mother Teresa when she expressed her doubts:

...feeling Jesus is not the only proof of his being there, and her very craving for God was a “sure sign” of his “hidden presence” in her life; and that the absence was in fact part of the “spiritual side” of her work for Jesus.

What is essentially said here, is that the doubts are actually themselves evidence that the very thing you are doubting is true. A more complete, circular, delusionary argument is hard to imagine. Its a war with your own mind you cant win. "The more you dont believe, the more you should believe." Amazingly, this kind of "reasoning" is actually quite common in religious apologetics.

This kind of silliness only works in religion. Atheists may occasionally delude themselves like anybody else, but at least we reject the main tool to get it done: Faith.

Atheists are no more rational or free of self-delusion than Believers; these human flaws simply express themselves in different ways.

>> ^Longswd:

I don't know about happier, but I will say it's infinitely preferable to willful self-deception.

Do note that I did not apply what I said to *every* member of VS, but *half* of them...and IMO, though not scientifically provable, I'm correct in this assessment. About 50% of any thread is riddled with one side or the other side sifters, with almost no in-between and no attempt to even try to understand their opposition. The way you addressed this, you applied what I said to everyone, which I never did.

Onto the meat of the subject, you claimed my post was negative (in so many words), however, it wasn't negative, it was merely in disagreement with the speakers approach, which is a completely different thing. As for cynicism, I can admit it creeps into the equation, however, that doesn't mean I can't listen too and hear what other intelligent people, such as yourself for instance, have to say.

As for the final things you said, I'd agree if you cut out the entire middle portion of the video -- in which he preaches -- if that part didn't exist, I'd agree with you that his point was in attempting to start a discussion, however, he tried to steer the discussion to where he wanted it. He didn't merely speak of a specific subject objectively in the interest of starting a discussion, as he went into a mini-soap-box rant in the middle portion, rendering objective discussion almost moot as his speech became suggestive in nature. At least, this is my opinion on the matter.

>> ^Truckchase:

>> ^hPOD:
Can't make his point clear, so he continues to ramble on endlessly in hopes of accidentally making it...which he never quite does.

There is a point here, which I'll address in a moment. I first need to call out this disease in the bottom of your post.
>> ^hPOD:

I can see this in half the posts I read on sift...the most vocal arguments come from the far left or the far right...neither of which even listen to the other side, they merely use the time reading the others points to think up their equally useless responses.

You're doing exactly what you're criticizing. As am I, admittedly, by addressing your negative post directly, but I'm hoping to defend the people on the sift as a whole. I find most of the regulars on this site to be very sharp and engaging.
This portion of your post resembles cynicism. Cynicism is what happens when people have lost hope in the government system that works for them. When this sets in, people discontinue listening to others' ideas and lash out at those who pose legitimate food for thought as wasting their time. It's hard to sit and think about a situation that perhaps you would rather not be in. It is much easier to live day-to-day and pretend the issue doesn't exist. Let's attempt to be aware of that line of self-delusion and dispense with it to move forward.
As for Mr. Hedges' point; The point is nothing more than to make you think about the situation we find ourselves in. If you're waiting for someone to come along and give a simple, predefined cause and effect along with a prescription for continued success, you'll be waiting a long time. This is a very complicated downfall that has more to do with mass psychology than it does with the actions of individuals. There will always be people without a notable conscious; those who live for greed. Sadly so long as we don't expect people to contribute to our government (meaning the governing of people as a practice, not a particular national government) on an individual level the number of people who can be easily exploited will continue to rise and the greedy can very easily take advantage of the populous. This is Chris' point. Stop. Stop fighting with each other. Stop labeling those around you. Think about what you're doing and where we're going. Let's all sit down and discuss this.
There is a real danger here in the age of ever diminishing attention spans and increasingly effective marketing based on soundbites rather than ideas. We need to ensure that we focus on ideas where it really matters. Mr. Hedges isn't trying to make a "point" and he's not trying to tell you what to do. He's trying to start a discussion.

>> ^hPOD:

Can't make his point clear, so he continues to ramble on endlessly in hopes of accidentally making it...which he never quite does.

There is a point here, which I'll address in a moment. I first need to call out this disease in the bottom of your post.
>> ^hPOD:


I can see this in half the posts I read on sift...the most vocal arguments come from the far left or the far right...neither of which even listen to the other side, they merely use the time reading the others points to think up their equally useless responses.

You're doing exactly what you're criticizing. As am I, admittedly, by addressing your negative post directly, but I'm hoping to defend the people on the sift as a whole. I find most of the regulars on this site to be very sharp and engaging.

This portion of your post resembles cynicism. Cynicism is what happens when people have lost hope in the government system that works for them. When this sets in, people discontinue listening to others' ideas and lash out at those who pose legitimate food for thought as wasting their time. It's hard to sit and think about a situation that perhaps you would rather not be in. It is much easier to live day-to-day and pretend the issue doesn't exist. Let's attempt to be aware of that line of self-delusion and dispense with it to move forward.

As for Mr. Hedges' point; The point is nothing more than to make you think about the situation we find ourselves in. If you're waiting for someone to come along and give a simple, predefined cause and effect along with a prescription for continued success, you'll be waiting a long time. This is a very complicated downfall that has more to do with mass psychology than it does with the actions of individuals. There will always be people without a notable conscious; those who live for greed. Sadly so long as we don't expect people to contribute to our government (meaning the governing of people as a practice, not a particular national government) on an individual level the number of people who can be easily exploited will continue to rise and the greedy can very easily take advantage of the populous. This is Chris' point. Stop. Stop fighting with each other. Stop labeling those around you. Think about what you're doing and where we're going. Let's all sit down and discuss this.

There is a real danger here in the age of ever diminishing attention spans and increasingly effective marketing based on soundbites rather than ideas. We need to ensure that we focus on ideas where it really matters. Mr. Hedges isn't trying to make a "point" and he's not trying to tell you what to do. He's trying to start a discussion.

What gets me is the immense amount of self delusion it must take to sit there and spout on day after day after day about how God/Allah is perfect and makes no mistakes... except for the matter of female sexuality. That bit is a tiny mistake, we'll just have to take care of that ourselves.

I love the magic wand she has....the car companies go out of business and millions lose their jobs, but "someone will step up" and start new car companies. That's a pretty amazing level of self-delusion to think that would happen here. As Letterman pointed out, the new companies would most likely be in China.

She's certainly not helping to moderate the Tea Party's reputation as a bunch of nuts.

Like the great George Carlin said: "Can’t we silence these Christian athletes who thank Jesus whenever they win and never mention his name when they lose? You never hear them say, 'Jesus made me drop the ball' or, 'The Lord tripped me up behind the line of scrimmage.'"

>> ^mentality:
>>...It's like, lets attribute the survival of this baby to God, and the fact that the baby was born WITHOUT A BRAIN, well, that's just bad luck. Self delusion: the only way to reconcile religion with reality.

>> ^NordlichReiter:
How can a baby with no Cerebrum laugh?

The neurons that inervate the facial muscles are intact in the brainstem, so the baby can still move and display certain reflexes despite the lack of conscious control.

It's interesting that religious people can still consider this a miracle. It's like, lets attribute the survival of this baby to God, and the fact that the baby was born WITHOUT A BRAIN, well, that's just bad luck. Self delusion: the only way to reconcile religion with reality.

On recommendation from Laura, I'm gonna share the pictures from my texas trip, just so you get a fuller picture of what happened http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=97904&l=cbd68219c6&id=675704878

It seems to me that your mind has been made up, so it is futile to discuss any further with you.

Good day, sir.



In reply to this comment by dag:
You continue to downplay your role in matters to the point of self-delusion- I'm leaving this discussion here- but my original message stands, please keep your feuds contained in profile comments or off the Sift. In complete honesty - I would prefer that you left the community- as I think there is some risk in your attitudes and behaviour to others. If you're going to stay, please prove me wrong by not hurting the Sift further.

In reply to this comment by gwiz665:
I have no reason to change. The married woman who I groped have not left the sift, the two of us have settled it outside of the sift and are each continuing as productive members of the sift as well. The only person who have left because of me - that I know of - is peggedbea, and with the massive personal attack she made in her "flame off", I don't feel the loss.

alien_concept, by her own words (check the thread), had intended to leave anyhow, evil_disco_man left as well, but not because of this, or at least not solely because of this. Who else is there?

I am not a danger to this community, even though some people like to see me that way - I'm part of what makes this community great. I don't break rules, I sift popular videos, I fix dead videos, I socialize with sifters. You may be scared of me all you like, but I am no threat to the Videosift community, which is something I hold quite dear too. (If nothing else, my history should damn well reflect this.)

It seems to me that you have made it abundantly to me that you don't take a neutral stance and just "take the side of the sift", you work based of rumors as well as the rest of the mongrels. You judged me quite quickly during the whole alien_concept leaving thread, which I certainly did not appreciate. You also gave me a whole lot of shit for making a comment on the what's-her-face "seen her naked" video as well. This is not appreciated as well. You should be impartial, dedicated to the sift and to the truth - you instead chose to be dedicated to all the butt-hurt users who complained. Like when burdturgler complained about "spook" being used by quantumushroom and blankfist. These are not admirable leadership methods. I agree that you have to walk a balancing act at all times with such things, but consistently making the wrong choice is a bad move.

I am very appreciative that videosift is such an open community as it is, which is completely your doing. If it had been most other advanced forums, I would have been banned for life for disagreeing with an administrator. I applaud that you allow dissenting voices to be heard, but I don't like to be admonished, neither on my profile page or in polls I make. The jabs you got in in the poll were just cheap shots and they were quite unjustified. You should be bigger than that.

In reply to this comment by dag:
Just to be clear, I don't find your cockiness admirable- several great contributors to VideoSift have left due to your actions. You have hurt the Sift, whose side I'm on. I'm concerned that the actions you've admitted to, groping a married woman, and member of the Sift make you a danger to the community. As I said, I'm on VideoSift's side- and have to do what I can to make this a safe place. Your continued belligerent behaviour makes me think that you're not going to change.

In reply to this comment by gwiz665:
My cockiness is a trait to be admired. I am not against videosift in any way, and my post was juvenile, so I'm sorry for that. I do wonder why I am singled out in this, when so many others have posted much more hate in comments. Makes you wonder.

My feud will be where it is relevant, which is to say I will keep it to profiles as much as is needed. If it spills into other stuff, I will not be the reason for it from now on.

In reply to this comment by dag:
The depth of your cockiness is almost funny, but not quite. I'm not on anyone's side here except videosift. Please keep your feud on profiles or offline.

In reply to this comment by gwiz665:
I was just wondering when you las admonished rasch for his vicious attack on my person? Is it that you've chosen a side already?

My post was not a necropost - he, himself, renewed it in http://blog.videosift.com/Lann/Hey-VS-Art-Hooligans#comment-886812 so I responded to that. I assure you that my hate is completely new and fresh. He started it, I'm just following through and countering his attacks with re-attacks.

If that is all you have to say, then please refrain from posting on my profile in the future. If you have something to say - and perhaps apologize for - you are completely free to post, but know that anything else, from now on, will be deleted (which is really just "hidden") by me.

You have chosen your side and it is the wrong one. I only hope that you will realize it at some point.

Cheerio mate.

In reply to this comment by dag:
Please don't crap on old, very good threads by necroposting hate. I'm referring to this:
http://art.videosift.com/talk/Sifters-Are-Works-of-Art#comment-886981

If you want to continue your little grudge match - keep it in profiles.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

I would take you up on it, readily.

In reply to this comment by UsesProzac:
It has to be a major headache trying to keep everyone pacified. If I was near you, I'd buy you a beer. Or some warm sake. Ah.. Thanks for listening to me.

In reply to this comment by dag:
I appreciate your concern and you have a point- but I'm not dragging more people into this conversation- I've said my piece and have registered your disappointment, thanks.

In reply to this comment by UsesProzac:
You'll never grasp the situation wholly unless you're a direct part of it. And who are these "several" people who have left the Sift because of him??

In reply to this comment by dag:
Why do you assume I'm referring to gossip? I don't think I referenced anything unsubstantiated in my comments and I have communicated with the people involved.

In reply to this comment by UsesProzac:
Wow. I'm really disappointed in you.. "Hurting the Sift" Every time I hear that phrase, I think less of it. For someone who claims to be impartial, you really take gossip to heart.

In reply to this comment by dag:
You continue to downplay your role in matters to the point of self-delusion- I'm leaving this discussion here- but my original message stands, please keep your feuds contained in profile comments or off the Sift. In complete honesty - I would prefer that you left the community- as I think there is some risk in your attitudes and behaviour to others. If you're going to stay, please prove me wrong by not hurting the Sift further.

It has to be a major headache trying to keep everyone pacified. If I was near you, I'd buy you a beer. Or some warm sake. Ah.. Thanks for listening to me.

In reply to this comment by dag:
I appreciate your concern and you have a point- but I'm not dragging more people into this conversation- I've said my piece and have registered your disappointment, thanks.

In reply to this comment by UsesProzac:
You'll never grasp the situation wholly unless you're a direct part of it. And who are these "several" people who have left the Sift because of him??

In reply to this comment by dag:
Why do you assume I'm referring to gossip? I don't think I referenced anything unsubstantiated in my comments and I have communicated with the people involved.

In reply to this comment by UsesProzac:
Wow. I'm really disappointed in you.. "Hurting the Sift" Every time I hear that phrase, I think less of it. For someone who claims to be impartial, you really take gossip to heart.

In reply to this comment by dag:
You continue to downplay your role in matters to the point of self-delusion- I'm leaving this discussion here- but my original message stands, please keep your feuds contained in profile comments or off the Sift. In complete honesty - I would prefer that you left the community- as I think there is some risk in your attitudes and behaviour to others. If you're going to stay, please prove me wrong by not hurting the Sift further.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

I appreciate your concern and you have a point- but I'm not dragging more people into this conversation- I've said my piece and have registered your disappointment, thanks.

In reply to this comment by UsesProzac:
You'll never grasp the situation wholly unless you're a direct part of it. And who are these "several" people who have left the Sift because of him??

In reply to this comment by dag:
Why do you assume I'm referring to gossip? I don't think I referenced anything unsubstantiated in my comments and I have communicated with the people involved.

In reply to this comment by UsesProzac:
Wow. I'm really disappointed in you.. "Hurting the Sift" Every time I hear that phrase, I think less of it. For someone who claims to be impartial, you really take gossip to heart.

In reply to this comment by dag:
You continue to downplay your role in matters to the point of self-delusion- I'm leaving this discussion here- but my original message stands, please keep your feuds contained in profile comments or off the Sift. In complete honesty - I would prefer that you left the community- as I think there is some risk in your attitudes and behaviour to others. If you're going to stay, please prove me wrong by not hurting the Sift further.