>> ^blankfist:

I love it! He's absolutely right! The only way to pull up the poor is by pushing down the rich. Wars, increased government spending, subsidized industry and manipulated interest rates have nothing to do with it. He should title it Atlas Sighed.


I love it. You didn't watch the video, I'm guessing?

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Is it me or is this similar to Ralph Nader fucking up the 2000 elections? I understand that it's a statement, but it's a statement at the wrong god-damned time.

Abortions are not illegal. There are plenty of non-profit organizations that will help fund abortions if needed, and they're not even that expensive! $400-500 for the first trimester? Up to $5000 for the second trimester. It's not like cancer treatment or HIV-treatment.

I understand that it's a step back. But we need to get this bill passed, but swallow this, and amend it later. Let's just get the first step made.

Ralph Nader fell into O'Reilly's trap of accepting his framework for the debate. The 'taliban' is actually a myriad of opposition forces. It's not a uniform force. The sad reality is that NATO is fighting the same warlords they're arming in a lot of cases.
Max Weber had a brilliant realization when he said (paraphrasing); in order for a state to be viable it has to have a monopoly of violence. The police and army need to be controlled by one central state. What NATO did in Afghanistan, by their short sighted tactics, was to ensure they lost the peace from the start. They armed dozens of separate warlords and reinforced their tribal reigns. So even if the taliban was instantly eliminated, now then the next phase will be a civil war for power in the country. Western countries are now in the process of listening to their political leaders giving excuses rather than realizing the complete tactical disaster of the situation. Excuses like it's for democracy when the last two elections were totally rigged (the first one with the help of the US), or that it's some kind of feminist mission when the people being armed and backed are at the extreme end of patriarchal.

I would be happy to have you as my president, Mr. Ventura.

Sure, Obama is better than Bush, no question. But the political differences between Obama and Bush are far smaller than the differences between either of them and the likes of Jesse Ventura or Ralph Nader. The Dems & GOP are in bed together on most major issues, just quibbling over details.

I have less in common politically with most elected representatives of the Dems & GOP, than i do with most of the third parties out there.

That said, i'm done chasing spending the bulk of my political time and money on candidates. It's an ineffective strategy, that should be secondary. I think the tactics of grassroots groups like DownsizeDC.org and even Mr. Sean Tevins of Kansas are much more effective in the long term.

>> ^chilaxe:
Rougy, with such careful and sophisticated reasoning, we can tell you must be a scientist!
Thanks for taking time away from your Ph.D. studies to tell us to fuck ourselves, and don't let anyone tell you you're closed-minded!


No, thank you Chilaxe, for all of your rational moderation regarding our political system.

Thanks to people like you, the Democrats, our "left of center" party, is well to the right of any leftist party in almost any other developed country in the world.

Thanks for continuing to blame the failures of the Democratic party on people like me and Ralph Nader, because heaven knows all of your compromises have worked so fucking well thus far.

Ralph Nader in disguise for the win!

Tags for this video have been changed from 'Vincent Bugliosi Mike Gravel Dennis Kucinich Sean Penn Ralph Nader prosecu' to 'Vincent Bugliosi, Mike Gravel, Dennis Kucinich, Sean Penn, Ralph Nader, prosecute' - edited by gwiz665

In 2000 I considered myself far left, yet I wasn't greedy when I voted for Ralph Nader. I didn't like the policies of Bush, and I didn't like the policies of Gore. But I liked the policies of Nader.

And it's well-known that if people had not voted for Howard Phillips of the Constitution Party, Gore would have won Florida. So quit blaming Nader and the people who voted for him.

>> ^chilaxe:
Rove was never a genius. His management of Bush's 2000 campaign caused Bush to lose, except that the far left got greedy and voted for Nader instead of Gore. Add any of Nader's votes to Gore's votes in the battleground states and Gore won by a long shot.

Irishman, I don't think Ron Paul's blimp was designed for transcontinental flight.

The point is that Obama has said a great many things to a great many people, some of which are good things, others not so much. He has also said things that are evasive, deceptive and contradictory. (So has Ron Paul and just about every politician who has ever lived btw) Am I happy about this? No. Do I have some worries? Yes. Have I given up hope already? Fuck no.

To get elected to office, you have to jump through a great many hoops, and keep the power mongers and money men from tearing you to shreds and leaving you in the dust bin of history with Ralph Nader and Ron Paul.

Will he cave to power? Will he wage war against them? I don't know, and neither do you. Most likely, he'll do something between these two extremes.

Perhaps, when Obama speaks about fighting terrorism, he is referring to 'actual' terrorism (remember Al Queda), as opposed to Iraq. He has said a great deal about communication, diplomacy and negotiation, which sounds like a step in the right direction to me. Perhaps he will be another raging neo-con, but it's all speculation at this point.

Have some patience, I'm sure there is a world of fresh new conspiracies for you to indulge in right around the corner. If Obama turns out to be George Bush #3 (#4 if you count Reagan), then I'll hit the streets and protest with you*. Cut and paste this paragraph if you like. Until then, it's just speculative, fringe hysteria.


*Said protest must take place within 100 miles of my residence in beautiful, sunny, southern California unless you want to pay airfare and travel expenses elsewhere.

So-- he's saying vote for Ralph Nader?

>> ^HadouKen24:
>> ^Psychologic:
Only being offended when they come from white people is racist.
No, it's not.
To say that it is, is to ignore the weight of history and the hurtful, bigoted, racist ways in which such slurs are still used. To pretend that we live in a post-racial society is to sweep under the rug the inequality and injustice that still exists.


Basing your reaction to a statement solely on the race of the person saying it isn't racism?? ... or maybe it's only racist if it's a white guy that is the one basing his opinions on race?

I fear for the future of this country. =(

>> ^Psychologic:
Only being offended when they come from white people is racist.

No, it's not.

To say that it is, is to ignore the weight of history and the hurtful, bigoted, racist ways in which such slurs are still used. To pretend that we live in a post-racial society is to sweep under the rug the inequality and injustice that still exists.

>> ^NetRunner:

This meme of accusing the people offended by racially charged phrases of being racist themselves is getting really fucking old.


Being offended by racially charged statements is fine. Only being offended when they come from white people is racist.

I certainly understand why Nadar's statement offended this guy. If he had said that everyone should find it offensive then I wouldn't have a problem with it, but that is not the path he chose to take in his response.

I thought from this clip Obama made his points better.

In other Debate News
--THIRD PARTY DEBATE--
this Sunday October, 19
8:00 pm EST --Tune to CSPAN--
confirmed candidates
-Ralph Nader (Independent)
-Chuck Baldwin (Constitution Party)
-Cynthia Mckinney (Green Party)
*Bob Barr please be in the debate*
(Feel free to copy and paste This)