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>> ^GeeSussFreeK:
That chart fails to show death rates in comparison with birth rates...Afghanistan is hardly a dense place yet has an astounding birth rate. As with all things, it isn't as simple as A) more people = better for all people, or B) Less people = better for all people...there will always be haves and have not's. However, having MORE people does tend to show higher levels of specialization. For instance, in the US, we have some of the largest and most varied amount of professional athletes.
I think it is better to understand birthrates/death rates in tandem WITH the national economic context they are in. Healthy economic condition would see peoples standards of living increase as more people are added to the equation. There is a fundamental limit on this which is mainly technological in nature (traffic,food,pollution,ect). In other words, you have to compare apples to apples and realize that correlation isn't causation. Zimbabwe would not be cured if their population was halved, their condition is much more a result of political bungling then shear population size. Really, I think population isn't an issue yet on a macro level...micro though it makes all the difference. The difference of the quality of life of someone that has 5 kids and 2 is undeniable. But when the 7 kids are all older, that is 7 people to potentially contribute to the world with all their gifts and talents.
Also, what birth and death rates don't tell you about total population is immigration. Look at the US for that, birth rates here are below 2 on average (last stat I saw was 1.98), but US has always had strong immigration tendencies and our population still continues to grow. Not taking into account migration is to not paint a complete picture of the world.


Aye all good points, i just wish there was more of an emphasis on birth control in these places that currently get food aid, not that i am against giving hungry children food, but just feeding a few of them doesn't solve the core problems (i'm not saying just birth control will either). The death rates per country (as you mentioned was missing) closely matches that of the birth rates given in my earlier link, the top 40 is pretty much all African nations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_death_rate

I realise some work goes into education (in regards to use of condoms etc) in these countries with rampant poverty, but there is still much ignorance, in no small part because pretty much all the major religions oppose the use of condoms because of their view that chastity is "the only sure way of preventing the spread of HIV and Aids" (Pope Benedict). When ignorance of this magnitude is present in the world, bad things happen.
edit: just saw your name is Jesusfreak, hopefully you realise i dont mean to use the religious view on condoms as a personal attack.

Take back astronomy? Oh, does he mean the same bullshit four hundred years later?

Quoth the Wikipedia:

On 15 February 1990, in a speech delivered at the Sapienza University of Rome, Cardinal Ratzinger (later to become Pope Benedict XVI) cited some current views on the Galileo affair as forming what he called "a symptomatic case that permits us to see how deep the self-doubt of the modern age, of science and technology goes today."

Tags for this video have been changed from 'Pope, Benedict XVI, Africa, Condoms, AIDS, Abstinence' to 'Pope, Benedict XVI, Africa, Condoms, AIDS, Abstinence, fuck the pope' - edited by sometimes

Since when was a Pope smart?

>> ^thepinky:
Naw, guys, I was half kidding. But you do bug me. A lot. I still love you.
I'm not Catholic, but this really smart dude named ehem Pope Benedict has a lot to say on the topic of Darwinism. Also, read "Finding Darwin's God: A Scientist's Search for Common Ground Between God and Evolution" by Kenneth R. Miller.
There is yet hope for you.

Naw, guys, I was half kidding. But you do bug me. A lot. I still love you.

I'm not Catholic, but this really smart dude named *ehem* Pope Benedict has a lot to say on the topic of Darwinism. Also, read "Finding Darwin's God: A Scientist's Search for Common Ground Between God and Evolution" by Kenneth R. Miller.

There is yet hope for you.

Denial? We're all very aware of our rich history. At least my arguments aren't boring and cliched. You can surely do better. I mean as soon as the Simpsons pull an example (the Crusades) to support an argument, you've got to reconsider the ammunition you're using.

Geez, the Crusades. If your holiest places were taken over by others, wouldn't you want to liberate them too? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades

The Catholic Church is guided by the Holy Spirit but it's composed of humans - and humans make mistakes - we're not perfect. This paragraph epitomizes the effect of this:
"Another factor that contributed to the change in Western attitudes towards the East came in the year 1009, when the Fatimid Caliph al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah ordered the Church of the Holy Sepulchre destroyed. In 1039 his successor permitted the Byzantine Empire to rebuild it.[6] Pilgrimages were allowed to the Holy Lands before and after the Sepulchre was rebuilt, but for a time pilgrims were captured and some of the clergy were killed. The Muslim conquerors eventually realized that the wealth of Jerusalem came from the pilgrims; with this realization the persecution of pilgrims stopped.[7] However, the damage was already done, and the violence of the Seljuk Turks became part of the concern that spread the passion for the Crusades.[8]"

Salem witch trials - example of what happens when a bunch of religious wackies get out of control - they were rather opposed to the Pope - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salem_witch_trials

Or witch hunts in general - yes, again, people made horrible evil mistakes, but attributing it all to the Church is again another outlandish and ignorant statement. Here's some light reading:
http://departments.kings.edu/womens_history/witch/werror.html

Okay, and the Inquisition - closely linked to the witch hunts/trials.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition
"Although many states allowed the Church to use the death penalty, initially it was not frequently imposed, as this form of punishment had many ecclesiastical opponents.[2][3]"

From a pro-life perspective, if you have the capability to imprison criminals you shouldn't kill them either. And of course have differing opinions isn't a reason to criminalize people, but it should give you pause when people make it sound like the fear of 'thought police' is a new development.

As usual, something which may have had some higher purpose was corrupted by people with a baser intention - "studies showed there was an initial burst of activity against conversos suspected of relapsing into Judaism, and a mid-16th-century pursuit of Protestants - but the Inquisition served principally as a forum Spaniards occasionally used to humiliate and punish people they did not like: blasphemers, bigamists, foreigners and, in Aragon, homosexuals and horse smugglers"

You know what we hate worse than hateful comedians, eh? Those damn horse smugglers.

Two other fun thoughts before getting some rest
- remember that Pope Benedict was, in his previous post, the head of the Inquisition? It's still around, only it's called the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. Lovely group. It's so good to have a Panzer Pope.
- nutty things were of course done through the ages - the "Index of Forbidden Books" is one of my favourites. Even in the late 19th century you'd hear Popes speaking of the dangers of "liberalism", whatever that means.

Yeah, people make mistakes, but Maher's blowing things out of proportion and being nutty about it himself. It's like he's creating his own "Index of Forbidden Groups" or something.

Have any of you read about Pope Benedict's explanation of how creationism and the theory of evolution can coexist? I'm glad that someone influential finally started pushing this idea. It not only promotes the undeterred teaching of evolution in schools, but it promotes environmentalism. I believe in God, but I can see that evolution is the real deal just as well as anyone. I also believe that God created man in His own image. How can these things coexist? Read some of the pope's literature. He's a smart guy. P.S. I'm not Catholic so don't go knocking the Catholic church. It won't hurt my feelings.

The story of Pope Benedict XVI having been a Nazi is complete BS. It's an urban myth in the UK, simply made up because they still have so much problems with germans. Unluckily i didn't find any english proof for my statement, but at least german speaking sifters can read something about this myth here: http://www.sueddeutsche.de/panorama/artikel/324/81243/

The artist came off as an intelligent guy, even if he looks like saddam. In the voice of pope benedict "All right Bill that's enough... I'm pretty sure that killing Jesus is pretty un-christian."