I don't think we like the same kinds of stories, him and I. He paints a very simple idea of the story. Like every story that resonates with us is the 3 little bears. The Homeric tails, while "simple" in terms of a hero's tail, the motivations, situations and characters are so rich and unpredictable at times it kind of ruins the whole talk on stories making little of ourselves. I enjoy this talk, mind you, but it is ironic to me that I think this story is an overly simplistic narrative on...well, the narrative! Les Misérables or The Count of Monte Cristo are rich, dynamic, and full of the complexities of the human tradition. Hell, the Bible is full of twists and turns that one might not expect...They killed the savior in the end, NO WAY! And even more so, the bibles have a very human feel to them in the OT, people fail and don't perform the way "God intended". And it is true that most narratives have some sort of objective guiding them, and the state of real life is much less formally constructed. With that said, though, even though the overall situation of humanity is like orchestrated chaos, they are still trying to carve out the meaningful story for their own life.

Thanks for trying to at least provide some references Ghark. I'm curious how credible you honestly believe them to be though. All but 2 of them are to the same blog, the one is a very short piece by Ynet with nothing more to say than that SANA declares itself the victim and the other is a different blog reporting proof that America supports activists in authoritarian countries.

That last bit seems to be the most veracious of all the claims, but I wouldn't call it 'news'. America(sadly, like virtually all governments) not only supports repressed activists but has also actively supported what can only be called terrorists and has on multiple occasions participated in the overthrow of foreign rulers through covert and even overt assassinations. Don't mistake my claims here as being based on the naive notion that America or the CIA would never do anything like this, as they have and without a doubt will again. My claim is much different, and so is Tarpley's.

The important nuance I think your missing in my disagreement with Tarpley here is that his claim is NOT CIA support for a Syrian uprising. His claim is that there is, in fact, no legitimate Syrian uprising and that it is all a facade orchestrated by the CIA, Mossad, or whomever else he thinks is the puppet master. The truth of the matter is that the Syrian people are now living under their second generation of brutal dictatorship. The truth of the matter is that the Syrian people have seen the difference between the free world and their own, and those people have taken to the streets. Importantly to our discussion here, one of the ways they have seen the difference between freedom and repression has been through social media, like facebook, twitter and to at least some extent our dear videosift here as well.

The sources you referenced supporting Tarpley's notions on Syria all point back to either SANA, the Syrian state media, Al-Alam, the Iranian state media or XinhuaNet, China's state media. For brevity I won't point out the massive number of articles from the NYtimes, the CBC and BBC all reporting on the Syrian protesters being brutally repressed and murdered by Syrian forces. If you wish, I can fill out a page with supporting links, but I hope you might be able to recognize that at the very minimum these sources balance out with equal support. I would go further and posit that state funded media like CBC and BBC are vastly more independent from the state message than SANA and Al-Alam, but it isn't necessary to my argument.

If you accept my generous notion that the above can be called a draw, and we throw them out as having a bias one way or the other, what are we left with?

We are left with Al Jazeera reporting an entirely different story than Tarpley's:
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/Syria

If you want more links from Al Jazeera they have a wealth of stories from all manner of separate and independent sources all backing their overall view that there is a legitimate internal Syrian uprising independently demanding the basic freedoms of a democracy, and the Syrian government met them with deadly repression, over and over and over again.

Is Al Jazeera a pro American tool of the CIA?

I'm going to cite what I consider to be very basic, fundamental facts but if you want references for them I can provide them if you don't trust a 5 second google verification of them.

The UN human rights committee voted 122 in favor of condemning Syria's crackdown, are they a pro American tool of the CIA?

The Arab League has threatened to revoke Syria's membership and asked that Syria allow their monitors into the country as a path to reconciliation, which Syria rejected.

Is the Arab League a pro America tool of the CIA?

>> ^Skeeve:

Agreed, for the most part.
He obviously has talent, but to be a great artist one tends to need life experience (often of a darker nature) and that is something he doesn't have.
It should come with time though.
As for why we haven't seen a Mozart, etc. in hundreds of years, maybe its because the great artists of our time aren't composing classical music (which tends to cultivate the misbelief that it is somehow superior). Now, I'm a fan of classical music, but listen to While My Guitar Gently Weeps, Gimme Shelter, or All Along the Watchtower and tell me you don't feel as moved as when listening to Eine Kleine Nachtmusik, or The Marriage of Figaro.
>> ^TheFreak:
Bullshit.
Try listening to Jay Greenbergs Symphony no 5. It's horrible.
It's an unorganized cacophany. One moment it sounds every bit like an action movie score then immediately it swings the other way and you'd think you were listening to the music from a 30's cartoon. There's no rhyme or reason behind any of the sounds you hear, no progression, no building of emotion, no story being told, no subtlety or purpose...just great big sloppy swipes of an oversized lyrical paintbrush.
That 60 Minutes segment describes Jay's early and enduring interest in writing music. I believe that's about the only element of the story that's not pure hyperbole. From listening to his music you can tell that he has obviously learned a great deal at a young age about arranging orchestral music. He has knowledge. What he lacks is everything else necessary to create great music.
Boys his age do one thing with great expertise and skill....masturbate. And that's what "Blue Bird" is doing with his music...masturbating all up in your ear holes.
Jay Greenergs interest and dedication to study clasical music composition, as well as the encouragement he's received, has brought him a long way. The real shame is the uncritical feedback he's getting from the people around him. Without anyone to tell him that his music is ham fisted and clumsy there's every likelyhood that his narcisistic self appraisal will lead him to nothing.
Jay Greenberg has demonstrated an impressive ability to learn how to compose in a classical style. It remains to be seen if he can turn that technical skill into artistic achievement.



Brilliantly said. If you really listen to some music of "recent" times, it can be amazing. Gimme Shelter is a perfect example. Listening for the voice cracks when the lyric is being yelled "rape! murder!".. I could reel off an entire bunch of pink floyd songs that i think are on par with classical music.

I think that the reason there were "more musical genius" around back then is for several reasons - what else was there for an intelligent and interested young person to do then? Let's face it, the most interesting thing around back then was a piano. We have more instruments now, the world is more connected, we can sample each other's music and combine it. There's too many reasons. And you died by the time you were 40, so when else were you gonna do your burst of creativity if not from a young age?

Agreed, for the most part.

He obviously has talent, but to be a great artist one tends to need life experience (often of a darker nature) and that is something he doesn't have.

It should come with time though.

As for why we haven't seen a Mozart, etc. in hundreds of years, maybe its because the great artists of our time aren't composing classical music (which tends to cultivate the misbelief that it is somehow superior). Now, I'm a fan of classical music, but listen to While My Guitar Gently Weeps, Gimme Shelter, or All Along the Watchtower and tell me you don't feel as moved as when listening to Eine Kleine Nachtmusik, or The Marriage of Figaro.
>> ^TheFreak:

Bullshit.
Try listening to Jay Greenbergs Symphony no 5. It's horrible.
It's an unorganized cacophany. One moment it sounds every bit like an action movie score then immediately it swings the other way and you'd think you were listening to the music from a 30's cartoon. There's no rhyme or reason behind any of the sounds you hear, no progression, no building of emotion, no story being told, no subtlety or purpose...just great big sloppy swipes of an oversized lyrical paintbrush.
That 60 Minutes segment describes Jay's early and enduring interest in writing music. I believe that's about the only element of the story that's not pure hyperbole. From listening to his music you can tell that he has obviously learned a great deal at a young age about arranging orchestral music. He has knowledge. What he lacks is everything else necessary to create great music.
Boys his age do one thing with great expertise and skill....masturbate. And that's what "Blue Bird" is doing with his music...masturbating all up in your ear holes.
Jay Greenergs interest and dedication to study clasical music composition, as well as the encouragement he's received, has brought him a long way. The real shame is the uncritical feedback he's getting from the people around him. Without anyone to tell him that his music is ham fisted and clumsy there's every likelyhood that his narcisistic self appraisal will lead him to nothing.
Jay Greenberg has demonstrated an impressive ability to learn how to compose in a classical style. It remains to be seen if he can turn that technical skill into artistic achievement.

Bullshit.

Try listening to Jay Greenbergs Symphony no 5. It's horrible.

It's an unorganized cacophany. One moment it sounds every bit like an action movie score then immediately it swings the other way and you'd think you were listening to the music from a 30's cartoon. There's no rhyme or reason behind any of the sounds you hear, no progression, no building of emotion, no story being told, no subtlety or purpose...just great big sloppy swipes of an oversized lyrical paintbrush.

That 60 Minutes segment describes Jay's early and enduring interest in writing music. I believe that's about the only element of the story that's not pure hyperbole. From listening to his music you can tell that he has obviously learned a great deal at a young age about arranging orchestral music. He has knowledge. What he lacks is everything else necessary to create great music.

Boys his age do one thing with great expertise and skill....masturbate. And that's what "Blue Bird" is doing with his music...masturbating all up in your ear holes.

Jay Greenergs interest and dedication to study clasical music composition, as well as the encouragement he's received, has brought him a long way. The real shame is the uncritical feedback he's getting from the people around him. Without anyone to tell him that his music is ham fisted and clumsy there's every likelyhood that his narcisistic self appraisal will lead him to nothing.

Jay Greenberg has demonstrated an impressive ability to learn how to compose in a classical style. It remains to be seen if he can turn that technical skill into artistic achievement.

Jeremy Soule has been one of my favorite game music composers ever since he gave Total Annihilation, a real time strategy game featuring giant robots, a full orchestral score.

Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CBTZqO83WQ

A global central banking system - isn't this what was suggested was the overall plan years ago?

falsify and orchestrate a financial breakdown and then swoop in with the fix-all of a World central bank with only one money system controlling all the countries. And the goal was to make people think this was a good idea and that they would all embrace the idea as a saving grace.

Greed and corruption doesn't hit all at once. It sits there invisible, waiting in the dark, sowing it's seeds and waiting for each plan to execute itself one at a time! The best take over and conquer plan is one where the people don't even notice it happening!

This really pisses me off.

Who gives a shit what this woman is doing? Did she commit a crime? If so get the authorities to deal with her. My bet is she hasn't done anything illegal otherwise that's what they would have led the story with. Instead they try and suggest that she is an immoral person with skewed priorities and not just to discredit her as a person but to discredit the movement as a whole by suggesting that this is the typical type of person who is participating in the OWS protests. No doubt in an effort to put a taint on it with the intent of warding away other people who might be considering joining in.

I am sure that the corporate sleazeballs who orchestrated this travesty of a story thought that this would be a typical conversation once people saw the moronic story about this woman...

"Hey Bob, where are you headed?"
"Well Bill I am heading to the OWS protest because those filthy banker bastards foreclosed on my house and put my family in the street."
"Oh Bob, you don't want to do that. Don't you realize that only promiscuous, child abandoning hippies are down there?"
"Wow, no I didn't! Thanks for saving me from embarrassing myself."

Idiotic.

I would bet that they would find all kinds of horrible people down there protesting if they looked for them, but to what end? Every individual has a different story but that has no bearing on the purpose of the protest. As Phreezdryd suggested, perhaps the media needs to look at the 1% and see how many of them have abandoned, abused, or cheated on their loved ones. If it is a battle of morality they want to have then put me down for 10 bucks on the OWS protesters.

Even though I know about all the horrible things that this man has done to his country, the tens of thousands of Libyans who have suffered directly because of this man, and the hundreds of people that were killed by terrorist actions he orchestrated, I still felt disturbed when I saw what he was going through. He only got a tiny taste of the terror he has inflicted upon the world, but at the same time he was still a 69 year old man begging for mercy.

Yes, he was a terrible person. But it is situations like this magnified thousands of times that made him a monster. I think they missed an opportunity to step above this man and to reject him that much more completely.

can't stand this guy...so biased and willfully misleading. Iranian elite force is too smart to get caught but the United States is too stupid to orchestrate a fake plot.

Its unbelievable that the Iranians would pick some alleged pot-smoking whore monger as an agent but its believable that America would pick the same person to be their patsy because they were 100% certain his story would hold up to scrutiny?

I love how he gets interview information of the guys ex-roomie and ex-business partner from some third-party source and he just believes it 100%.

Hey Iranian roomate. "Did you believe your roomate was capable of this?

---"Well duh...he was a bad ass. Like James bond."

"oh, ok...let me tell the cia 'bout this. NO, no.....just wait there."

This guy sounds like that dude who orchestrated 911 while on dialysis from a cave with a laptop and a cellphone.

>> ^marbles:
>> ^FlowersInHisHair:
>> ^marbles:
>> ^FlowersInHisHair:
I don't know how much more evidence is required.
Of course you don't. One wonders why doesn't the FBI count it as evidence then? Maybe because it's only purpose is political propaganda to achieve an agenda that doesn't include actually pursuing a criminal via the rule of law.
Bin Laden didn't "confess" to 9/11 in that video. Bin Laden confessed in the 2001 video where he had a big nose. The one that's been all out confirmed to be a fake. The CIA even admits it created fake Bin Laden tapes.
The video released in 2004 is the one Walter Cronkite called a setup orchestrated by Karl Rove to help Bush get reelected.
EPIC FAIL: The US Government’s History Of Fake Bin Laden Tapes

Oh no, I'm not going to get drawn into a debate with a truther.

Good call. Know when you're over-matched.

Hahaha, you're funny. No, that's not it at all. I just know not to waste my time banging my head against a brick wall.

>> ^FlowersInHisHair:

>> ^marbles:
>> ^FlowersInHisHair:
I don't know how much more evidence is required.
Of course you don't. One wonders why doesn't the FBI count it as evidence then? Maybe because it's only purpose is political propaganda to achieve an agenda that doesn't include actually pursuing a criminal via the rule of law.
Bin Laden didn't "confess" to 9/11 in that video. Bin Laden confessed in the 2001 video where he had a big nose. The one that's been all out confirmed to be a fake. The CIA even admits it created fake Bin Laden tapes.
The video released in 2004 is the one Walter Cronkite called a setup orchestrated by Karl Rove to help Bush get reelected.
EPIC FAIL: The US Government’s History Of Fake Bin Laden Tapes

Oh no, I'm not going to get drawn into a debate with a truther.


Good call. Know when you're over-matched.

>> ^marbles:

>> ^FlowersInHisHair:
I don't know how much more evidence is required.
Of course you don't. One wonders why doesn't the FBI count it as evidence then? Maybe because it's only purpose is political propaganda to achieve an agenda that doesn't include actually pursuing a criminal via the rule of law.
Bin Laden didn't "confess" to 9/11 in that video. Bin Laden confessed in the 2001 video where he had a big nose. The one that's been all out confirmed to be a fake. The CIA even admits it created fake Bin Laden tapes.
The video released in 2004 is the one Walter Cronkite called a setup orchestrated by Karl Rove to help Bush get reelected.
EPIC FAIL: The US Government’s History Of Fake Bin Laden Tapes

Oh no, I'm not going to get drawn into a debate with a truther.

>> ^FlowersInHisHair:
I don't know how much more evidence is required.

Of course you don't. One wonders why doesn't the FBI count it as evidence then? Maybe because it's only purpose is political propaganda to achieve an agenda that doesn't include actually pursuing a criminal via the rule of law.

Bin Laden didn't "confess" to 9/11 in that video. Bin Laden confessed in the 2001 video where he had a big nose. The one that's been all out confirmed to be a fake. The CIA even admits it created fake Bin Laden tapes.
The video released in 2004 is the one Walter Cronkite called a setup orchestrated by Karl Rove to help Bush get reelected.

EPIC FAIL: The US Government’s History Of Fake Bin Laden Tapes