Uh oh, @bobknight33, they found the culprit that made the fake Biden robocalls in New Hampshire.


PS- I love how Trump reminded everyone how disastrous 2020 was, and how mentally feeble he is by bringing up “supply change” on OAN, claiming “no one had ever heard of the supply change before Biden” (he meant supply chain)…clearly forgetting that “supply chain problems” entered the current lexicon in 2020 when store shelves actually were bare because factories and ports shut down leading to SUPPLY CHAIN ISSUES. No TP, no sanitizer, no medicines, no eggs, no milk, no pork (NO BACON!), ports closed, cargo ships waiting offshore by the thousands, trains full of cargo left in bad neighborhoods for thieves to empty because there was no one to unload them at warehouses and no place to store them, neighborhoods near ports absolutely filled with abandoned truck trailers for the same reason…all under Trump, suckers!
THANKS TRUMP for reminding your low IQ voters with no memory that “supply chain problems” were first created by Trump who botched Covid worse than any other leader on the planet. 😂

Oof…the failed impeachment just keeps getting better. We now know what Greene was talking about when she claimed the Democrats “hid” one of their members who ruined their little vote… Rep. Al Green of Texas was having surgery and the vote was scheduled to try to make sure he couldn’t vote, but he left the hospital and voted, ruining the tie vote they expected which would have let the speaker cast the deciding vote. Yet another sneaky underhanded MAGA attempt to subvert democracy foiled. D’oh!

😂 No immunity for Trump really has MAGA shitting their pants. Good job Trump, now you either get denied by the Supreme court and likely start in June and end your treason trial in September or you get them to hear you (and again rule against your obviously wrong interpretation of checks and balances as defined in the constitution) and his trial should end in late October, far too late to replace him on the ballot but with him disqualified…leading to massive landslides across the board for Democrats as MAGA doesn’t show up to vote if they can’t vote for Trump. 😂

Bonus- Residents of Eagle Pass Texas now say they are far more worried and afraid of the out of control angry nutjob MAGgots that showed up there than the migrants.

Oops Project Veritas again admitted lying about voter fraud, this time a fake accusation about Pennsylvania post masters mishandling ballots.

OH SWEET ZOMBIE GEEBUS! Look up MAGA loser Solomon Peña who lost his election in 22…he of course baselessly claimed fraud and tried to intimidate election officials to not certify the election, intimidate them by shooting their houses up, in one case missing a Senator’s 10 year old by inches as she slept.
Now both his first and his second hired attempted assassins have plead guilty to shooting up election officials houses at Peña’s direction (he paid them to do it, and personally shot up some of the houses with them). They could both get life.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-nm/pr/demetrio-trujillo-co-defendant-solomon-pena-pleads-guilty
Another day, another MAGA bunch of terrorists.

Could that be Hunter, the DC DA and the Georgia DA that all are now ‘sposta file charges…because reports are all 3 have begun that process.

She sent the same revenge porn in a non age gated newsletter to her constituents in Georgia, sending porn directly to children and posting revenge porn…two crimes in one.
That’s industrial level child sex grooming from the cuckholding manly tranny Greene. 😂

Georgia law- Revenge porn is an aggravated misdemeanor if the offender posts the photograph or video on any other electronic means. This offense carries a prison sentence of up to 12 months and a $5,000 fine. Repeat offenders face harsher penalties as second and subsequent revenge porn charges become felonies. In that case, repeat revenge porn is punishable by one to five years in jail and/or a fine of up to $100,000.

The second offense in one day, so it’s already into the “subsequent charges” phase. She sent it over 100000 times, she could get the longest sentence in history, 100000-500000 years just for Georgia! Holy shit!

Also Georgia law- (e) (1) A person commits the offense of obscene Internet contact with a child if he or she has contact with someone he or she knows to be a child or with someone he or she believes to be a child via a computer on-line service or Internet service, including but not limited to a local bulletin board service, Internet chat room, e-mail, or on-line messaging service, and the contact involves any matter containing explicit verbal descriptions or narrative accounts of sexually explicit nudity, sexual conduct, sexual excitement, or sadomasochistic abuse that is intended to arouse or satisfy the sexual desire of either the child or the person, provided that no conviction shall be had for a violation of this subsection on the unsupported testimony of a child.

(2) Any person who violates paragraph (1) of this subsection shall be guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than one nor more than ten years or by a fine of not more than $10,000.00; provided, however, that, if at the time of the offense the victim was 14 or 15 years of age and the defendant was no more than three years older than the victim, then the defendant shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of a high and aggravated nature.
Another 1-10 years for every minor that got her newsletter!

DC law- If the sexual image is shared with 6 or more persons through “publication,” either directly or by uploading to the Internet, then the offense is First-Degree Unlawful Publication of a Sexual Image. This is a felony offense punishable by up to 3 years in prison and/or a fine of $12,500.

Because this is a crime, not legislative activity, and transmitted both in the form of an electronic newsletter (uploaded to the internet) and statement to the press, she has no immunity….specifically listed in the speech and debate clause as exemptions to immunity.

Hunter also has civil cases in both DC and Georgia worth tens of millions each. Bye MTG. 😂

Not to mention the federal laws she broke by publishing the documents she swore under oath to not share or publish before she could see them.

No sir. I don’t even live in a city…but fools like you are absolutely the reason red states are shithole states, with much worse statistics than cities, (which are nearly all Democratically led so the ploy to say “Democrat led cities are “x”” is transparent), and Republican led cities are usually worse per capita by most measures….just smaller.. Per capita, red states are worse for crime both with and without guns than cities. What is it about Republican leadership that causes such high crime?
For instance, Ohio state, with Republican governor, sec of state, AG, house and senate and Gym Jordan looking out for it has MUCH HIGHER violent crime rates than NYC or NYState with Democratic led governments and diverse populations….but Gym went to NYC to investigate crime, fuck Ohio.
“ Ohio's statewide homicide rate is 49% higher than New York City's overall rate of 5.8 homicide deaths per 100,000 residents, Ohio's homicide rate is also 87% higher than New York's statewide rate of 4.6 homicides per 100,000 residents.”

Er mer gerd….lack of morality? Name the Democrat led city that is trying to make sex with 12 year olds legal. Republicans are.

Only in your delusional little brainwashed mind is it worse today than in the early 90’s. Crime statistics ( https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nycrime.htm ), economic statistics, the only thing getting worse is life expectancy thanks to Trumps total failure to address Covid and a million dead before their time, but it’s going back up under Biden. I know…but daddy Trump said crime is at an all time high…and you just keep on believing his lies instead of checking obvious statistics even you could understand. Crime rates are 1/2 - 1/4 what it was in 1990.

Democrats are for every citizen’s equality under the law, not “for the black man”. I understand that concept is so foreign to you that you can’t grasp it at all. I believe minorities would disagree with you about being better under Democrats and voting statistics bear that out conclusively. Funny enough, the blatant racist right continues to tell minorities “you’re just too stupid to understand you should vote with us so you shouldn’t get to vote at all”….then can’t fathom why minorities think you don’t respect or care about them or their rights. 🤦‍♂️

Biden has done amazing so far, positive gdp, single digit unemployment, covid under control, deficit significantly down, and wow…2 full years without an impeachment or 3 dozen cabinet members in prison. How did he do that?!? Without even his own “Pravda” to tell his cultists what to believe…holy shit!
He’s not even my choice of Democrats, but he’s done fine….even you admit everything’s going well, you just insist tomorrow it will turn to shit…always a day away but never here.
Why couldn’t those behind Trump prop him up and run the country? He gave them trillions while claiming poverty when it came to helping starving children or destitute families or infrastructure, but they couldn’t help HIM run the country!?! WTF!?!
His entire presidency was demented racist grandpa and his drunk buddies seeing what they could get away with…and it’s coming home to roost. Enjoy.

Ivermectin is dewormer/anti parasitic. Covid is not a worm or other parasite. The human version (used for head lice) sold out immediately after some fuckwit claimed it worked on a virus, it doesn’t, not even a little. Your ilk said ivermectin for humans is the same as horse dewormer, it’s fine to just use that….and you morons did even though it has zero effect on covid and serious side effects and some died. Same for hydroxychloroquine, zero benefit major side effects including death. You said “it’s good medicine, use that not evil Democrat vaccination”. Derp.

You fuckwit. That’s the opposite of reality. Countries that locked down like Taiwan and New Zealand had exponentially fewer cases and reopened much sooner so less economic damage too. You just HAVE to be wrong on every point, why is that?

Lol….you moron. I guess you forgot you eventually admitted to SELLING all your Tesla…or claimed you had sold it all to avoid ridicule for losing your shirt. During the time you would have sold out if you did, you were still telling others to buy all in, every penny, and don’t worry that it drops another 50%, just hold it forever like ENRON and it will all be roses. It clearly was an AWFUL time to buy Tesla, even you knew it would fall much farther, and it continues to get worse. You can’t keep your lies straight….is it always a great buy, or did you sell all yours? Can’t have both.

Lol. Yes you did, repeated it for months, tried to point to one individual who had once reported on BLM as a leader orchestrating it until his true politics became public, then you slunk off to your cave to await the next nonsense lie.
Now you glommed onto this nonsense that some singular proud boy is really, secretly, off all books and with no immunity or protection, an FBI agent (with no evidence) and he, alone, caused thousands of totally peaceful non insurrectionist Trumpists to storm the capitol against their will and better judgement, and those weapons just materialized in their hands using secret CIA transporters, the gallows they brought was a hologram, and the “where’s Nancy. Hang Mike Pence” chanting was edited in after the fact by lefties. 🤦‍♂️
So far to date there have according to you been 50 such accusations by insurrectionist defendants (I’ve only heard the one, but you know your MO- say ANYTHING and see what isn’t immediately debunked then go with that), but zero evidence of a single government infiltrator egging anyone into violence or criminal acts. This “we now know” preface doesn’t mean they know anything, it means they hope one of 12 is ignorant enough to believe the fantasy and deadlock.
If there was a scintilla of evidence that 50 FBI agents were in the capitol instigating the riotous coup that would be such news they would interrupt regular programming on every channel for it, but it’s not even reported outside fantasy land because it’s absolutely ridiculous and there’s zero evidence, just pure fantastical supposition as a Hail Mary defense by those already convicted and their cohorts about to be…but you don’t worry about that, someone blamed “not MAGA” so you’re just going with that as fact, but absolutely won’t be looking into the truthfulness of these defendants (some of which pleaded guilty to insurrection). You think this kind of information is an exclusive by this no name internet troll? Why isn’t it everywhere? I’ll tell you, because it’s ridiculous nonsense made up by failing defendants to excuse their violent failed coup.
At best you have some overwhelmed police that instead of taking on a violent crowd at 40-1 odds stood back and let the insurrectionists that had already violently forced their way into the building severely injuring many officers walk by. That’s not instigating. The lie about the FBI being involved is just that, another lie you’ll deny saying in two weeks like your original “it’s BLM and ANTIFA pretending to be Trumpists”.…or more likely just go silent on and refuse to address it like the subhuman Traitor Ashley Babbitt that got what you all deserve. If there were agents instigating, do you really believe that footage wouldn’t have been the first footage Carlson presented? 🤦‍♂️

Ashley Babbitt wasn’t a person. I’ve seen her. If demons are real, she’s example #1. That troglodyte and the rest of us are better off with her dead. I only lament that 2000 of her subhuman cohorts didn’t get some cold hard reciprocity themselves.

5 police died from injuries sustained that day, not died ON that day. 160 were hospitalized, many long term. Hundreds quit afterwards.

You might notice they compare apples to oranges…
Different time periods, different shot levels, grouping mixtures, no clue which vaccine or which strain of covid they looked at, they all vary widely…I would prefer more standardized methods if I’m to make sense out of their data.

I’ve read studies that had similar results, and those with completely contradictory results. Some say natural immunity is better, longer lasting, some say the exact opposite. You can prove anything with statistics….forfty percent of all people know that.

It’s better off the bat because you don’t have to get the disease for the immunity…better again because with boosters it’s better than without them, double boostered likely being better than natural immunity in the same timeframes, or if not, close….also better because you KNOW you got the shots and have a widely accepted record of them, unless you get repeatedly tested you don’t KNOW you had covid…false positives happen…and you don’t get a record to show (for travel, etc).

The science isn’t clear, but it is clear that no immunity is permanent and none is total protection. Because all immunity fades rapidly, herd immunity is a myth.

>> ^raverman:

I come bringing viruses and diseases you have no immunity to and no medicines to treat. Here eat my food and handle my possessions.
I can't wait till peaceful aliens land, give us access to all their technology and then accidentally kill half the human race with pathogens we have no defense against.


Problem is, this is a two-sided door. You can just as easily release a new virus upon "existing" mankind.

Boy, this video brought back some really nice memories for me. I spent a year living in West Papua (the other half of the island that belongs to Indonesia). Although the people I worked and lived with were not seeing white people for the first time, it was still one helluva a culture difference.

>> ^KnivesOut:

This video gave me chills. The first contact, with the armed warriors approaching the camera-wielding white ghosts.... That could have gone really poorly. What brave people, on both sides.


Never once did I worry about anything like that. While it is true that there is near constant tribal fighting on the island, I would contend that the larger society is extremely peaceful. Always welcoming and trustful with huge smiles and even bigger feasts for anyone that came to their villages.

Basically, violence there comes in downward spirals that start with directed aggression. That mostly has to do with the fact that they believe wholeheartedly in equality. If one tribe raids a village and kills someone, then retribution must be made and one person form the attacking tribe must be killed. Of course, the raid that seeks retribution ends up killing two people, so then the attacks start again. This goes on and on until the numbers are equal on each side, which can take a while. However, if you come in peace, there is nothing to worry about.

As pointed out in Guns, Germs, and Steel, they are also an extremely democratic society. There is no chief, only a 'big man' whose job it is to facilitate discussions and carry out the final decisions. In this way, it is unlikely that one person would freak out and somehow cause something terrible to happen since they must rely on the consent of the entire tribe.

>> ^raverman:

I come bringing viruses and diseases you have no immunity to and no medicines to treat. Here eat my food and handle my possessions.


It's not quite the same situation as it was with Native Americans or those tribes still surviving in the Amazon. While these people may have never had direct contact with a white person before, they certainly had indirect contact. Europeans have been visiting the island since the spice trade began in the 14th century.

The tribes can be roughly divided into coastal peoples and mountain peoples. The coastal peoples have had contact with Europeans for hundreds of years and built up tolerances to their diseases. Mountain people sometimes comes to the beach, and vice-versa, so in this way, resistances to common European diseases are pretty well dispersed among the population.

Actually, it is the white people that are in much more danger of falling ill. We are poorly equipped to handle malaria, dengue, and yellow fever. This, in part, is why there were still 'uncontacted' tribes well into the 20th century.


It's been almost a year since I lived there, and I must say that it is the one place I constantly dream of returning to. They could really use the money from tourism so if you are looking for something off the beaten path without being extremely dangerous, I suggest you check it out. It really is a paradise.

I come bringing viruses and diseases you have no immunity to and no medicines to treat. Here eat my food and handle my possessions.

I can't wait till peaceful aliens land, give us access to all their technology and then accidentally kill half the human race with pathogens we have no defense against.

I agree with most of what he says (no immunity for government officials, stop bombing people).

On the whistle-blower immunity thing, I agree provided that the person is exposing something illegal. However, I don't support immunity for someone releasing internal government communications (ie- wiki-leaks) if the communications do not indicate any illegal activity.

As far as China, I don't know enough about Paul's views to agree or disagree, but what I've seen from him on the subject seems overly simplistic.

I was hoping you'd raise some issue about which I could argue, but I agree with you completely. Damnit. ha!

So what is your opinion of Sweden versus America? I always see Sweden at the top of the list when it comes to social issues, and I'm jealous. Are the lists an accurate portrayal of Swedish society?

In reply to this comment by Kreegath:
Let's just agree that no argument, example or viewpoint should be completely set in stone. We all make up imperfect opinions based on imperfect information, and trying to hold the mindset that as many of ones opinions as possible are open for change is imperative for a meaningful discussion of just about any kind.

The problem as I see it with people being against abortion is that I feel they're (and they in this case is the people in general) trying to create a moral highground where none exist by not looking at the implications and consequences of denying a woman the right to an abortion in a clinic. To be honest, looking at it realistically, women will still do abortions regardless of whether or not there's a law saying they can't. In that regard the practical discussion is about whether we let professionals in the field of medicine deal with it, or the women themselves with a coathanger in the forest at night. The ethical discussion is something I've got some thoughts on aswell, but that's for a separate paragraph.

There was this girl who killed herself in Ireland by putting a dirty stick into her uterus, because she'd been raped and couldn't cope with giving birth to that baby even though her family had given her their support. This is the reality of women doing abortions, and the consequence of trying to ban the practice of medical abortion by creating an argument for "a womans right to choose" versus "a fetus' right to life". I think the reality is that neither of those are valid arguments in this issue, because just like that Irish girl felt she did not have a choice when it came to her pregnancy, and risked and subsequently took her own life to stop it. It's very hard for someone who hasn't experienced it to imagine that level of desperation.

It's very easy for someone completely detached from the people, families and society affected by the presumptive abortion to try and create a moral highground against it. In my mind it also seems shortsighted and disregards the motives for the abortion, the implications of raising an unwanted child and the repercussions in society. These women don't look for an abortion as an alternative to condoms, they don't go through with it on a whim and it's not a decision that in any stretch could be conceived as being taken lightly.
A woman not being able to support her child emotionally and/or financially aswell as provide security and education is among the worst kinds of mental torture you could inflict on a person. This kind of mentality leads to poverty, intolerance, social injustice and crime which in turn leads to a huge strain on society, affecting even more people and creating a plethora of additional problems. Now, obviously I'm not saying that anti-abortionists promote crime and injustice, but what I am saying is this: The sanctity of life simply does not end at conception.

Finally, my take on the religious argument about the moment of conception and the soul. I look at it like this:
I don't think Jesus actually existed but is the (oh lord I don't know the correct word for it, allegory?) unreachable goal which we should all strive for. I believe the religious thinkers who roughly 2000 years ago started talking about these paragons of virtue (of which they eventually picked Jesus) wanted to push as many good stories and attributes on the icon as possible, partly because people would get a moral compass to frame, direkt and solidify their mentality/behaviour and partly because they wanted people to keep striving to become better human beings (better at humanity?), never being able to reach it and would therefore come back for more.
Just like I don't think Jesus was actually walking around 2000 years ago and curing lepers and feeding the masses with a loaf of bread, I don't believe the soul is an actual, material entity. I don't think the soul (if you believe in that sort of thing) is something you receive upon conception at all but is the representation of ones life, dreams, memories, experiences, knowledge and feelings. As such, a fetus which has no organs, no immune system, no consciousness or subconsciousness in my mind has none of the things that would make up ones soul, since it hasn't actually lived yet. This alone would naturally not warrant the termination of a pregnancy, but I think it's important to realize a fetus at that point is medically and practically not yet a human being. Actually, in Sweden it's illegal to even try and save a fetus born too prematurely (I think it's any fetus born in the 25th week of pregnancy or earlier). Because quite frankly, if the fetus would survive the incubator with the looming 99.9% mortality rate, partly due to having no immune system whatsoever, it would be so incredibly handicaped and in such pain for the rest of its short life that it would be constituted as torture of the worst possible kind.

So yeah, I do think that abortion is the result of society not taking responsibility for it's members. It's the result of injustices, intolerance, hate and a terrible inability of some persons to put themselves in the situations of others.
I think that in a perfect world, no woman would be targeted for rape, would be discriminated and hamstrung to the point where she had to rely on the good graces of others to support her and even moreso any future offspring of hers, would be isolated and judged by an archaic system of hate and intolerance, and where people would take personal responsibility for everyone's prosperity.
Today however, for the most part, it feels like we're not so much a coherent society as we are a separate group of clans having to share livingspace (on s societal level of course, on a international level we're not even sharing).
Taking responsibility is key here, and that is not achieved by picketing a doctor's home or telling women they're murderers. Taking responsibility is helping them raise the child, which you probably won't see anyone do before hell freezes over.

I'm sorry for dragging this out a bit. It's such a loaded issue that it's extremely hard to show how you feel about it without either getting labeled effectively getting words put in your mouth that are not your own, or getting completely ignored for saying something and not elaborating on it enough.

Stress is a powerful thing. Perhaps the most powerful and unpleasant quality of high stress is its ability to very well suppress the immune system. That's the reason why folks tend to get sick when they are stressed. It is actually a proven cause of reactivation of several viruses that we live with all our lives... for example, The Herp. hehe. If you are one of the millions who have HSV, you'll get a "cold sore" or with HSV-2 a "personal breakout" if you are overstressed any time.

I would not be surprised at all if his sudden stress caused his immune system to fail and his cancer to advance rapidly. With no immune system, cancer is a VERY FAST KILLER!! The body has a natural defense to cancerous cells, but if the immune system is weakened... no guarantees...

No, on birth control I know that's not your position - I was commenting on society in general, not on anything you said.

Your points do make sense; I just hit and run there as I didn't feel like wading into the details b/c it's not especially productive when people get too emotional (c.f. alt.abortion), so I just chucked my 2 cents in and wandered off.

I totally understand the horror of stillborns, though. The idea I imagine Lurch would've been getting at, though, is that if the baby is still in the womb, it'll move past that stage. If it's out early, well, medical disasters happen to people at all stages in life, and if you're out of the womb prematurely, you're dead. Of course, though you're not fully formed and independent, assuming no interference or medical problems you're on track to be have a full life with a few weeks/months time.

Aside from the tragedy of miscarriages, which is often unavoidable, I was just lamenting the avoidable tragedy of 'unnecessary' abortions.

It's an unfortunate shame the issue gets clouded with super-charged ultra-emotional arguments (Don't take away my choice! Don't kill babies!) rather than what's best for women, kids, families and society in general. <sigh>

In reply to this comment by Kreegath:
I never said that abortion is justified as a form of birth control (like how it's done in China) though, did I? I'm saying that there are cases when it is justified, and that while it's very very easy to take the position Lurch takes, it's also very very irresponsible and shortsighted in that he simply ignores the problem that arises from someone that is for any reason or another unable to raise a child, in an environment unfit to raise it in.
Also, I did take offense when Lurch blurted his "I can't agree that a critical part of being a parent is to kill your child", an extremely ofending remark in anyone's ear which I'm sure he was completely aware of when writing it. That's clearly not what's been written in opposition to his own (in my opinion) immature views, and I was tempted to reply to his flame bait that he must be a sadist that hates children because of his contempted views on sentencing unwanted fetuses to a lifetime of torture.
In closing, Lurch's blatant ignoring of the fact that regardless if there's a law against abortion, women will (as they've done for thousands of years) try and preform the abortion on their own.

To build on what I wrote earlier about my brother's work as a nurse, they're actually not allowed to try and save fetuses born earlier than the 23rd week of pregnancy. They've got no working organs, no immune system and no awareness. So even if the survival rate were 1%, both the life quality and quantity of that fetus would be so immensly reduced by the early birth, the terrible prize the other 99% would pay in deaths by infections (they have no immune system, meaning any bacteria will ravage them horribly), not to mention the surviving fetus would life a very short life in great suffering. However, according to Lurch that's irrelevant and they're all child killers.

In reply to this comment by Krupo:
Kreegath, leaving all the extreme scenarios out of the picture, I think we can all agree that something abortion should not be used for is birth control for "inconvient" pregnancies. One would hope people could just wait a little longer and share the life with a childless couple in an endless adoption queue...

I never said that abortion is justified as a form of birth control (like how it's done in China) though, did I? I'm saying that there are cases when it is justified, and that while it's very very easy to take the position Lurch takes, it's also very very irresponsible and shortsighted in that he simply ignores the problem that arises from someone that is for any reason or another unable to raise a child, in an environment unfit to raise it in.
Also, I did take offense when Lurch blurted his "I can't agree that a critical part of being a parent is to kill your child", an extremely ofending remark in anyone's ear which I'm sure he was completely aware of when writing it. That's clearly not what's been written in opposition to his own (in my opinion) immature views, and I was tempted to reply to his flame bait that he must be a sadist that hates children because of his contempted views on sentencing unwanted fetuses to a lifetime of torture.
In closing, Lurch's blatant ignoring of the fact that regardless if there's a law against abortion, women will (as they've done for thousands of years) try and preform the abortion on their own.

To build on what I wrote earlier about my brother's work as a nurse, they're actually not allowed to try and save fetuses born earlier than the 23rd week of pregnancy. They've got no working organs, no immune system and no awareness. So even if the survival rate were 1%, both the life quality and quantity of that fetus would be so immensly reduced by the early birth, the terrible prize the other 99% would pay in deaths by infections (they have no immune system, meaning any bacteria will ravage them horribly), not to mention the surviving fetus would life a very short life in great suffering. However, according to Lurch that's irrelevant and they're all child killers.

In reply to this comment by Krupo:
Kreegath, leaving all the extreme scenarios out of the picture, I think we can all agree that something abortion should not be used for is birth control for "inconvient" pregnancies. One would hope people could just wait a little longer and share the life with a childless couple in an endless adoption queue...