Thank you QM for that thoughtful reply.

It just seems that the imbalance right now is in demand, not the availability of capitol to invest.


>> ^quantumushroom:

Your logic isn't flawed per se, just incomplete.
In an unstable environment like the one created by Obama and his ilk, no sane wealthy person is going to expand businesses or invest.
Lower tax rates mean more investing and more lending to entrepreneurs. It also means less "hoarding" by the wealthy, who in an electronic world can transfer monies rapidly and keep them parked elsewhere.
The idea is that even though the tax rate is lower, there is more economic activity, and thus greater revenue.
Taxation is only half of the equation, the other is spending. Government spending will certainly not stop under a Romney Administration; a continuing taxocrat-majority Congress means spending will barely slow down.

Outrage over the Ryan proposal is selective at best. His Earness has already screwed the middle-class. Here are the new taxes the middle class will be paying for Obamacare. The ink is already dry.
>> ^TheFreak:
Give me $2500 over a year and it will all be spent on household expenses in the bat of an eye, directly into the economy. Give $250,000 to a millionaire and what exactly is it going to do? How is that money going to stimulate the economy better than the millions they're already hoarding?
Someone give me a coherent argument for how an extra fraction of wealth is going to encourage these people to invest and grow anything. Show me the flaw in my logic.

Your logic isn't flawed per se, just incomplete.

In an unstable environment like the one created by Obama and his ilk, no sane wealthy person is going to expand businesses or invest.

Lower tax rates mean more investing and more lending to entrepreneurs. It also means less "hoarding" by the wealthy, who in an electronic world can transfer monies rapidly and keep them parked elsewhere.

The idea is that even though the tax rate is lower, there is more economic activity, and thus greater revenue.

Taxation is only half of the equation, the other is spending. Government spending will certainly not stop under a Romney Administration; a continuing taxocrat-majority Congress means spending will barely slow down.


Outrage over the Ryan proposal is selective at best. His Earness has already screwed the middle-class. Here are the new taxes the middle class will be paying for Obamacare. The ink is already dry.

>> ^TheFreak:

Give me $2500 over a year and it will all be spent on household expenses in the bat of an eye, directly into the economy. Give $250,000 to a millionaire and what exactly is it going to do? How is that money going to stimulate the economy better than the millions they're already hoarding?
Someone give me a coherent argument for how an extra fraction of wealth is going to encourage these people to invest and grow anything. Show me the flaw in my logic.

The problem is, you had every single one of those things before the bills I rattled off.

Those bills were about letting people kill with impunity, giving the police the ability to say "papers please" to anyone without a warrant or probable cause, abolishing public-sector unions entirely, and using State AG offices as tool of national political activism by trying to undo a Congressional battle you already lost.

After all, if you're so sure it's unpopular, why not just wait until the people give you the votes in Congress to just repeal it? Why try and go the 5-4 judicial activism route?

>> ^quantumushroom:

It's simply not possible for the left (or a large chunk of it) to believe people really want guns for self-defense, border security, rewarding only legitimate paths to citizenship, unions that aren't bailed out by taxpayer monies and health care reform that (a) a majority actually wants and (b) follows the Constitution.

>> ^quantumushroom:

What the left seems to forget in their haste to blame conspiracies/corporations is, no matter who funds what, nothing can stand without the support of public opinion.
It's simply not possible for the left (or a large chunk of it) to believe people really want guns for self-defense, border security, rewarding only legitimate paths to citizenship, unions that aren't bailed out by taxpayer monies and health care reform that (a) a majority actually wants and (b) follows the Constitution.


This would make sense if there was no such thing as the manufacture of consent or the conditioning of the human mind. We as a public are terrified of everything, we're so much more scared of everything stupid than any other countries people as a whole. It's not coming from nothing, it's our media...turn off the TV.

What the left seems to forget in their haste to blame conspiracies/corporations is, no matter who funds what, nothing can stand without the support of public opinion.

It's simply not possible for the left (or a large chunk of it) to believe people really want guns for self-defense, border security, rewarding only legitimate paths to citizenship, unions that aren't bailed out by taxpayer monies and health care reform that (a) a majority actually wants and (b) follows the Constitution.

They say arrested, but I highly doubt she is in jail. The monied class does not go to jail.

The reason I say 20,000 a year is for one that's what a lot of the average blue collar workers earn. And two it would eliminate people who only get into politics for the money.

>> ^Sagemind:

@Auger8
I agree that lobbying should be illegal!
But I think your salary cap is a bit low. I'm assuming by 20k, you mean $20,000.
That's low by any standards. You'd never attract anyone with any intelligence for that kind of paycheck. "The current salary (2011) for rank-and-file members of the House and Senate is $174,000 per year." I can agree to a pay scale between 100-200k. And with a limit as to what expenses can be claimed on the office expense account (eg. nothing for personal use, caps on meal claims.)
I do as well, however, agree to the auditing. Any monies gained above and beyond that must be proven as legitimate while living expenses and assets must not exceed their incomes.

@Auger8
I agree that lobbying should be illegal!

But I think your salary cap is a bit low. I'm assuming by 20k, you mean $20,000.
That's low by any standards. You'd never attract anyone with any intelligence for that kind of paycheck. "The current salary (2011) for rank-and-file members of the House and Senate is $174,000 per year." I can agree to a pay scale between 100-200k. And with a limit as to what expenses can be claimed on the office expense account (eg. nothing for personal use, caps on meal claims.)

I do as well, however, agree to the auditing. Any monies gained above and beyond that must be proven as legitimate while living expenses and assets must not exceed their incomes.

3,088 prizes available to be won. Retail value of all prizes is $3,375,790 and is based on the Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price as provided by our suppliers at time of quoting and includes related taxes.
-Prizes are tax free to Canadian residents.
-The cost of tickets is not tax deductible.

4.1. What is gross revenue?
Gross revenue is all monies generated through a gaming event, including total sales and interest income. Gross revenue minus prize costs and other expenses equals net revenue.

Expenses must not exceed 25 per cent of the actual gross revenue of the ticket raffle. Prize costs are not included in the 25 per cent maximum expense calculation.

Remember amount of money taken in does not equal profit. The profit after overhead was 2.2 mil
Overhead would include, Gaming License, Advertising costs, mail outs, tv ads, printing, office space, office staff.

Taxes - In Canada, all taxes are paid by the raffle holders.
I've looked everywhere but can't find the payable amount of taxes but from experience, I've heard it's around 40-50% but that number could be out-of-thin-air.

Sources:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=bc%20canada%20raffle%20percentage%20tax&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CEYQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pssg.gov.bc.ca%2Fgam
ing%2Flicences%2Fdocs%2Fguide-a-b-licence.pdf&ei=dCS0TrTFBsOviAL9yohw&usg=AFQjCNF6qX0nmj58LIveUYaTNaNlXt4reQ
&
http://www.pssg.gov.bc.ca/gaming/

The 1% actually don't mind the 99% being just nearby - they won't have to walk as far to collect their monies when they need a bailout.

@Winstonfield_Pennypacker
well said my friend.you just succinctly put in to perspective americas older generations view on OWS and the disconnect between "the tea party" and 'OWS".
now there really is no disconnect,not really,the disconnect lies in semantics only.
the tea party viewed government as being the intruder while OWS views wall street but i submit they are one in the same.both working to keep the institutions and concentration of power and money in the same hands to the detriment of the populace and they have become so entrenched and corrupted that neither can function without the other and always,ALWAYS it is the most vulnerable who are left to drown.

(i say lets take private monies out of public elections.that would be a great start)

you state the "average american" has a 401k,property etc etc.
this is true if you are retired or near retirement but this is no longer the case and has not been for many years.hence the disconnect between the older and younger generations,yet both generations are angry and upset and are starting to make some noise.i find this to be a very good thing (the noise,not the disconnect).

but i do disagree with you on "finding a specific message".the tea party started out organically and as people related to the shared feeling of frustration and outrage.they found a message, they began to come together and then what happened?
they became corporately sponsored ie:koch brothers.
and their message became a weird amalgam of frustration and palinisms and what was once a movement that was beginning to be heard became co-opted in to a politicians wet-dream of free publicity.

so i say keep the non-distinct yet palpable rage and keep the message broad and inclusive because as history teaches us:if the powerful cant beat ya.
they will co-opt ya.
(before they kill ya).

i hope those who rallied with the tea party will join hands with those in wall street (and italy,greece and ireland) and make such a ruckus that they make politicians pee themselves in fear.
because the only thing a government,crown,caliphate or grand poo-ba is afraid of are people coming to their door-step enmasse.see:end of vietnam war.

I disagree with the assertion that Obama has "made war against the core values of liberalism", or that there has been an "even more craven attempt...to cater to [corporate interests]" (more craven than what, Bush?)

However, I agree with him about the Faustian bargain with corporations, and about him subsequently being crumpled up and discarded by them. But of late Obama appears to have decided to fight back, not that his critics on the left or right would ever acknowledge such a thing.

But regardless of that, I also agree that "all the pillars of the liberal establishment that once provided ... a mechanism by which grievances and injustices in this country could be addressed have shut, tight." The courts have been perverted by decades of intentional sabotage, Congress has been bought, and hamstrung by its own procedures, the unions have been systematically attacked and weakened, churches have been taken over by charlatans and hatemongers, and schools have either been defunded, or made dependent on the largesse of the monied class.

It's way past time for people to make a stand against the onslaught of this corporate kleptocracy. I just hope it's not too late.

>> ^NetRunner:

>> ^blankfist:
And he's right about the "governmentally fixed price for gold", and if it was legal in this country to offer competing currencies I don't think many people would care whether the USD was backed by gold or not. But because we're forced to use one central currency, it should at the very least be value backed.

The way I understand it, you can legally offer and accept another currency, it's just that you aren't allowed to refuse to accept dollars as settlement of debts incurred.
That's why it's legal to use gold, bitcoins, gift cards, frequent flyer miles, Xbox live points, WoW gold, etc. Even credit cards and checks aren't actually legal tender.


mo·nop·o·ly /məˈnäpəlē/ Noun
The exclusive possession or control of the supply or trade in a commodity or service.

So, two questions. 1. would you say the US government has "control" over the supply or trade of the commodity of monies?

2. If you can "legally offer and accept another currency" why did these guys get raided if competing currency is legal? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Dollar#Federal_Government_response

First, its a kids/girls (shoujo) song. At first I thought it was a solo release from one of the MMs mini moni group but alas, unrelated.

Second, it is no more or less bizarre as adults watching most kids shows these days, it just so happens japan's kids have a bit better imagination thanks to not having nearly the oppressive censoring on TV as us whities do.

Frankly considering the only popular music we have to offer our kids is the likes of gangsta rap and justin beiber (They wont find any classics on todays modern stations), the up beat (and maybe too happy) young listeners jpop market looks to produce better material compared to the crap we offer over here.

@soulmonarch

Looks like good reading, still reading wealth of nations, so one more book to add to the list. If you don't mind me probing, does the Fed have "depositors" that it is using to loan against when handing out money to the government? I assume that the debt the US owes to the Fed is to be secured by tax dollars down the line, but aren't those monies created by fractional reserve banking? This reminds me of a snake eating its own tail. If you just close the 1.6 trillion, I would imagine that would close the door on a lot of created money, thus, reduce the money supply quite a bit, which is what I guess they were addressing in the video? Seems like a bit of money contraction couldn't be to bad, as long as you keep your eye on it.

In doing some more reading, it seems like the people applying the most pressure for the new debt ceiling is wall street. Fuck those guys, though. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.