>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:

Great, now can we please shut down the Department of Homeland Security, restore our civil rights and get our troops out of Afghanistan? (not holding my breath)


Don't forget about repealing the Patriot Act. Maybe also get out of Iraq? Maybe we close our over 700 military bases in more than 135 countries?

>> ^Matthu:

>> ^ghark:
mmm yes let's ignore the humanity side of it, and just go to Libya for the oil - what a beautiful soul this man must have, underneath that lovely crop of hair.

You know what though?? For me, this was his one saving grace. I can't believe how honest he was. The govts. already in Libya for nothing but the oil - we know that, it's refreshing to hear some honesty.


To be honest, I've never been privy to any presidential, NATO, or U.N. meetings. I'm sure oil works into this somehow; but, I doubt that is the reason the security council voted the way it did. War or even making a friendship or treaty will always be about resources and options (like a military base here or there, getting gold at a discounted price as long as it goes towards a bilateral satellite, etc...). Our world revolves around resources, make that clear in your mind.

Money is merely an IOU and a virtual promise, but an actual resource is power. Because, we need it and the U.S. (and the West and some of the East) are beholden by oil. So don't be surprised when it becomes a contentious issue as it WILL affect your life eventually and our government has, as a top tier issue, to keep our way of life and our lives safe. You can blame the government(s) for going after oil, but I wonder if you're aware of exactly how much oil is responsible for everywhere around you.

/I'm not trying to be argumentative in a negative way, but re-reading it gave me that impression. So take what I say with a grain of salt and only remind yourself that war will continually be about resources and land. It's a rare war to not be concerned with that. Plus Qaddafi has gone off the deep end, mentally. I'm not sure it's entirely safe to give him a chance to even try to govern his people (Cambodia: Electric Boogaloo?)...

>> ^imstellar28:

There's nothing "small" about a government which takes 30-50% of a person's income and maintains military bases in most countries on the planet.

My point was that "small" government is a stupid way of looking at things in the first place. If you accept the basic fundamental role of a state is to establish and enforce laws, you shouldn't be caring about whether it's "small" or not, but whether it's acting with the interest of the governed in mind, or not.
>> ^imstellar28:
You think the answer is giving more power to elected officials,

No. This is what the "small" government fallacy leads you to believe. Because I refuse to view everything through your lens of "small" vs. "big", you mislabel me as somehow being in favor of being for "big" government as an end in and of itself. Not true.

I think government should be like a giant open-source operating system. Everyone gets to use it, and anyone can contribute new and improved rules for making it work better. My goal is to try to persuade people to see society this way in general, because I think changing societal norms is the only long-term fix for any of these problems.

My point is that the arguments we should be having are "how do we make this system work well", and not spend all our time fighting about how many lines of code are in the OS, or how much memory it uses. I'm open to the idea that cutting lines of code or unnecessary features could make the system work better overall, but I'm vehemently against the idea that we must be single-mindedly focused on reducing the scope of the OS at all times.
>> ^imstellar28:
but what you keep ignoring is that the private sector is made up of the same types of people.

Actually, that's part of why I said that all this talk about "small" government is a distraction. The focus shouldn't be on moving public services into the private sector, it should be on holding the people who're not serving the public interest accountable, and finding systematic ways to prevent people like that from abusing the system.

If the argument is that privatization increases accountability, that's at least the right way to approach the topic. If the argument is that this is the systematic fix, I think you've got a lot of work to do to convince me there's any benefit to handing prison management over to a for-profit company...
>> ^imstellar28:
The monopoly on force (government) should persist only to enforce the rule of law, nothing more. Cultural development is a personal choice and as such must be left to the people because a single person (or group) should not decide the culture of a nation. And yes, I would say that roads, education, telecommunications, healthcare and the like are all cultural characteristics. They have to be because they have only existed for small portions of our history - whereas the rule of law has (conceptually) existed, unchanged, ever since the first two humans learned to communicate with each other.
Here I think we have a much bigger schism. Not the one you might think though -- I think we're part of the same culture. I think implicit in your statement is that because we disagree on some/most of these topics, we are by definition not part of the same culture, and I think as long as you're a citizen of the Western world, we're all in the same culture.

Beyond that, I think if I really pressed you on taxation, I think you'd eventually admit to believing there's a universal moral principle involved, and that it's not some sort of simple cultural preference, just like if you pressed me on health care, I'd admit to believing there's a universal moral principle involved, and that it's not some sort of simple cultural preference.

@NetRunner

There's nothing "small" about a government which takes 30-50% of a person's income and maintains military bases in most countries on the planet. You think the answer is giving more power to elected officials, but what you keep ignoring is that the private sector is made up of the same types of people. I mean, did you not watch this video which said that 85% of Serco's employees came from the public sector? Characters in both groups have the same ambition for power and wealth, so both will make similar decisions when faced with a given situation. The details will vary from person to person but invariably individuals in both groups will vote to increase their own wealth and power, not to make the world a better place.

The monopoly on force (government) should persist only to enforce the rule of law, nothing more. Cultural development is a personal choice and as such must be left to the people because a single person (or group) should not decide the culture of a nation. And yes, I would say that roads, education, telecommunications, healthcare and the like are all cultural characteristics. They have to be because they have only existed for small portions of our history - whereas the rule of law has (conceptually) existed, unchanged, ever since the first two humans learned to communicate with each other.

"Don't fuck with my life and I won't fuck with yours"

What you are effectively suggesting is that we take the same pool of greedy assholes, and instead of dividing them into camp A and camp B, we should put them all under the same command chain (even more centralized power). Worse still, you want to give the very same corporate guys you are angry about the monopoly of force over other people! Don't the likes of Serco, Halliburton, BP, etc. cause enough humanitarian damage as it is, without an explicit license to kill?

>> ^GeeSussFreeK:

Are you advocating the violent overthrow of an existing government unilaterally? How do you support rebels, and which ones do you support? What if they don't want your support, Iraq sure didn't, Iran doesn't. Before we start blowing up another country, it would be good to have the answers to some of those questions.
>> ^kceaton1:
Yeah, I hate Mubarak, but who the hell knows what will fill up the vacuum. If it went south we'd almost have to get involved at some level.
(...it's starting to go south via the pro-Mubarak protesters somebody shipped in... One day there were little to none to be found; then overnight they show up--ready [and wanting] to fight.)
I'd call ^conspiracy (screw you sifty bot) on any news that has the "pro-Mubarak" protesters...

edit - One thing I whole heartedly agree with is what Cenk said at the end of his piece. If we really are ANY kind of power THAT TRULY believes in our republic and our democracy WE HAVE TO ACT. Otherwise, we look pro-Mubarak. The fact that I've seen so many of these protesters wearing Obama T-shirts and using his name, in a comparison of us electing him in force and they wanting Mubarak out. So much so that they viewed Obama's election an uprising in the U.S. (which is not comparable in anyway to their plight). I fail to see how our decision has yet to be made by our commander in chief!



Sorry, I didn't clarify what I meant by getting involved. I think we should promote any push for democratic or a republic reform regime. The reason I said we "may" need to get involved is because of our spending that gave them their army.

The army seems to be the most level-headed (as well as anti-Mubarak protesters. A good example for them is that they combined together to protect their museum from harm. To me that says this protest is VERY different from anything we've seen in our lifetimes except when Russia feel apart with much the same thing happening with the military.

As I said, I've got no idea what will fill the vacuum, but if we get involved we may may. This includes politics, U.N. support, or other non-intrusive military based action. Which is a far different strategy than what we used in Iraq and elsewhere.

Citation provided. Well done. Always be weary of statistics though http://i.imgur.com/XE9Iu.png
>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:

I can't be arsed running through this again so I'll just politely ask you to cite your statistical evidence.
How many terrorist acts have been committed or attempted in U.S. territory by caucasian males aged 3-5?
Answer: Zero
And how many terrorist acts have been committed or attempted in U.S. territory by foreign-born Muslim males age 17-40?
1983
April 18, Beirut, Lebanon: U.S. embassy destroyed in suicide car-bomb attack; 63 dead, including 17 Americans. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Oct. 23, Beirut, Lebanon: Shiite suicide bombers exploded truck near U.S. military barracks at Beirut airport, killing 241 marines. Minutes later a second bomb killed 58 French paratroopers in their barracks in West Beirut.
Dec. 12, Kuwait City, Kuwait: Shiite truck bombers attacked the U.S. embassy and other targets, killing 5 and injuring 80.
1984
Sept. 20, east Beirut, Lebanon: truck bomb exploded outside the U.S. embassy annex, killing 24, including 2 U.S. military.
Dec. 3, Beirut, Lebanon: Kuwait Airways Flight 221, from Kuwait to Pakistan, hijacked and diverted to Tehran. 2 Americans killed.
1985
April 12, Madrid, Spain: Bombing at restaurant frequented by U.S. soldiers, killed 18 Spaniards and injured 82.
June 14, Beirut, Lebanon: TWA Flight 847 en route from Athens to Rome hijacked to Beirut by Hezbollah terrorists and held for 17 days. A U.S. Navy diver executed.
Oct. 7, Mediterranean Sea: gunmen attack Italian cruise ship, Achille Lauro. One U.S. tourist killed. Hijacking linked to Libya.
Dec. 18, Rome, Italy, and Vienna, Austria: airports in Rome and Vienna were bombed, killing 20 people, 5 of whom were Americans. Bombing linked to Libya.
1986
April 5, West Berlin, Germany: Libyans bombed a disco frequented by U.S. servicemen, killing 2 and injuring hundreds.
1988
Dec. 21, Lockerbie, Scotland: N.Y.-bound Pan-Am Boeing 747 exploded in flight from a terrorist bomb and crashed into Scottish village, killing all 259 aboard and 11 on the ground. Passengers included 35 Syracuse University students and many U.S. military personnel. Libya formally admitted responsibility 15 years later (Aug. 2003) and offered $2.7 billion compensation to victims' families.
1993
Feb. 26, New York City: bomb exploded in basement garage of World Trade Center, killing 6 and injuring at least 1,040 others. In 1995, militant Islamist Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman and 9 others were convicted of conspiracy charges, and in 1998, Ramzi Yousef, believed to have been the mastermind, was convicted of the bombing. Al-Qaeda involvement is suspected.
1995
Nov. 13, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: car bomb exploded at U.S. military headquarters, killing 5 U.S. military servicemen.
1996
June 25, Dhahran, Saudi Arabia: truck bomb exploded outside Khobar Towers military complex, killing 19 American servicemen and injuring hundreds of others. 13 Saudis and a Lebanese, all alleged members of Islamic militant group Hezbollah, were indicted on charges relating to the attack in June 2001.
1998
Aug. 7, Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania: truck bombs exploded almost simultaneously near 2 U.S. embassies, killing 224 (213 in Kenya and 11 in Tanzania) and injuring about 4,500. 4 men connected with al-Qaeda 2 of whom had received training at al-Qaeda camps inside Afghanistan, were convicted of the killings in May 2001 and later sentenced to life in prison. A federal grand jury had indicted 22 men in connection with the attacks, including Saudi dissident Osama bin Laden, who remained at large.
2000
Oct. 12, Aden, Yemen: U.S. Navy destroyer USS Cole heavily damaged when a small boat loaded with explosives blew up alongside it. 17 sailors killed. Linked to Osama bin Laden, or members of al-Qaeda terrorist network.
2001
Sept. 11, New York City, Arlington, Va., and Shanksville, Pa.: hijackers crashed 2 commercial jets into twin towers of World Trade Center; 2 more hijacked jets were crashed into the Pentagon and a field in rural Pa. Total dead and missing numbered 2,9921: 2,749 in New York City, 184 at the Pentagon, 40 in Pa., and 19 hijackers. Islamic al-Qaeda terrorist group blamed.
2002
June 14, Karachi, Pakistan: bomb explodes outside American consulate in Karachi, Pakistan, killing 12. Linked to al-Qaeda.
2003 1
May 12, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: suicide bombers kill 34, including 8 Americans, at housing compounds for Westerners. Al-Qaeda suspected.
2004
May 29–31, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: terrorists attack the offices of a Saudi oil company in Khobar, Saudi Arabia, take foreign oil workers hostage in a nearby residential compound, leaving 22 people dead including one American.
June 11–19, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: terrorists kidnap and execute Paul Johnson Jr., an American, in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. 2 other Americans and BBC cameraman killed by gun attacks.
Dec. 6, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia: terrorists storm the U.S. consulate, killing 5 consulate employees. 4 terrorists were killed by Saudi security.
2005
Nov. 9, Amman, Jordan: suicide bombers hit 3 American hotels, Radisson, Grand Hyatt, and Days Inn, in Amman, Jordan, killing 57. Al-Qaeda claimed responsibility.
2007
Dec. 11, Algeria: more than 60 people are killed, including 11 United Nations staff members, when Al Qaeda terrorists detonate two car bombs near Algeria's Constitutional Council and the United Nations offices.
2008
May 26, Iraq: a suicide bomber on a motorcycle kills six U.S. soldiers and wounds 18 others in Tarmiya.
June 24, Iraq: a suicide bomber kills at least 20 people, including three U.S. Marines, at a meeting between sheiks and Americans in Karmah, a town west of Baghdad.
June 12, Afghanistan: four American servicemen are killed when a roadside bomb explodes near a U.S. military vehicle in Farah Province.
July 13, Afghanistan: nine U.S.soldiers and at least 15 NATO troops die when Taliban militants boldly attack an American base in Kunar Province, which borders Pakistan. It's the most deadly against U.S. troops in three years.
Aug. 18 and 19, Afghanistan: as many as 15 suicide bombers backed by about 30 militants attack a U.S. military base, Camp Salerno, in Bamiyan. Fighting between U.S. troops and members of the Taliban rages overnight. No U.S. troops are killed.
Sept. 16, Yemen: a car bomb and a rocket strike the U.S. embassy in Yemen as staff arrived to work, killing 16 people, including 4 civilians. At least 25 suspected al-Qaeda militants are arrested for the attack.
Nov. 26, India: in a series of attacks on several of Mumbai's landmarks and commercial hubs that are popular with Americans and other foreign tourists, including at least two five-star hotels, a hospital, a train station, and a cinema. About 300 people are wounded and nearly 190 people die, including at least 5 Americans.
2009
Feb. 9, Iraq: a suicide bomber kills four American soldiers and their Iraqi translator near a police checkpoint.
April 10, Iraq: a suicide attack kills five American soldiers and two Iraqi policemen.
Dec. 25: A Nigerian man on a flight from Amsterdam to Detroit attempted to ignite an explosive device hidden in his underwear. The explosive device that failed to detonate was a mixture of powder and liquid that did not alert security personnel in the airport. The alleged bomber, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, told officials later that he was directed by the terrorist group Al Qaeda. The suspect was already on the government's watch list when he attempted the bombing; his father, a respected Nigerian banker, had told the U.S. government that he was worried about his son's increased extremism.
Dec. 30, Iraq: a suicide bomber kills eight Americans civilians, seven of them CIA agents, at a base in Afghanistan. It's the deadliest attack on the agency since 9/11. The attacker is reportedly a double agent from Jordan who was acting on behalf of al-Qaeda.
2010
May 2, New York City: After discovering a bomb in a smoking vehicle parked in Times Square, authorities arrest Faisal Shahzad, a Pakistani who recently became a naturalized U.S. citizen, and charge him with attempted use of a weapon of mass destruction and several other federal charges. American officials later announce that the Pakistani Taliban likely played a role in the bomb plot, including training Shahzad.
The underwear bomber. The shoe bomber. The ink-cartridge bomber. 9/11. Foreign-born Muslim males age 17-40. Profiling isn't prejudice or racism. It's just statistics.

I can't be arsed running through this again so I'll just politely ask you to cite your statistical evidence.

How many terrorist acts have been committed or attempted in U.S. territory by caucasian males aged 3-5?
Answer: Zero

And how many terrorist acts have been committed or attempted in U.S. territory by foreign-born Muslim males age 17-40?

1983
April 18, Beirut, Lebanon: U.S. embassy destroyed in suicide car-bomb attack; 63 dead, including 17 Americans. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Oct. 23, Beirut, Lebanon: Shiite suicide bombers exploded truck near U.S. military barracks at Beirut airport, killing 241 marines. Minutes later a second bomb killed 58 French paratroopers in their barracks in West Beirut.
Dec. 12, Kuwait City, Kuwait: Shiite truck bombers attacked the U.S. embassy and other targets, killing 5 and injuring 80.
1984
Sept. 20, east Beirut, Lebanon: truck bomb exploded outside the U.S. embassy annex, killing 24, including 2 U.S. military.
Dec. 3, Beirut, Lebanon: Kuwait Airways Flight 221, from Kuwait to Pakistan, hijacked and diverted to Tehran. 2 Americans killed.
1985
April 12, Madrid, Spain: Bombing at restaurant frequented by U.S. soldiers, killed 18 Spaniards and injured 82.
June 14, Beirut, Lebanon: TWA Flight 847 en route from Athens to Rome hijacked to Beirut by Hezbollah terrorists and held for 17 days. A U.S. Navy diver executed.
Oct. 7, Mediterranean Sea: gunmen attack Italian cruise ship, Achille Lauro. One U.S. tourist killed. Hijacking linked to Libya.
Dec. 18, Rome, Italy, and Vienna, Austria: airports in Rome and Vienna were bombed, killing 20 people, 5 of whom were Americans. Bombing linked to Libya.
1986
April 5, West Berlin, Germany: Libyans bombed a disco frequented by U.S. servicemen, killing 2 and injuring hundreds.
1988
Dec. 21, Lockerbie, Scotland: N.Y.-bound Pan-Am Boeing 747 exploded in flight from a terrorist bomb and crashed into Scottish village, killing all 259 aboard and 11 on the ground. Passengers included 35 Syracuse University students and many U.S. military personnel. Libya formally admitted responsibility 15 years later (Aug. 2003) and offered $2.7 billion compensation to victims' families.
1993
Feb. 26, New York City: bomb exploded in basement garage of World Trade Center, killing 6 and injuring at least 1,040 others. In 1995, militant Islamist Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman and 9 others were convicted of conspiracy charges, and in 1998, Ramzi Yousef, believed to have been the mastermind, was convicted of the bombing. Al-Qaeda involvement is suspected.
1995
Nov. 13, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: car bomb exploded at U.S. military headquarters, killing 5 U.S. military servicemen.
1996
June 25, Dhahran, Saudi Arabia: truck bomb exploded outside Khobar Towers military complex, killing 19 American servicemen and injuring hundreds of others. 13 Saudis and a Lebanese, all alleged members of Islamic militant group Hezbollah, were indicted on charges relating to the attack in June 2001.
1998
Aug. 7, Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania: truck bombs exploded almost simultaneously near 2 U.S. embassies, killing 224 (213 in Kenya and 11 in Tanzania) and injuring about 4,500. 4 men connected with al-Qaeda 2 of whom had received training at al-Qaeda camps inside Afghanistan, were convicted of the killings in May 2001 and later sentenced to life in prison. A federal grand jury had indicted 22 men in connection with the attacks, including Saudi dissident Osama bin Laden, who remained at large.
2000
Oct. 12, Aden, Yemen: U.S. Navy destroyer USS Cole heavily damaged when a small boat loaded with explosives blew up alongside it. 17 sailors killed. Linked to Osama bin Laden, or members of al-Qaeda terrorist network.
2001
Sept. 11, New York City, Arlington, Va., and Shanksville, Pa.: hijackers crashed 2 commercial jets into twin towers of World Trade Center; 2 more hijacked jets were crashed into the Pentagon and a field in rural Pa. Total dead and missing numbered 2,9921: 2,749 in New York City, 184 at the Pentagon, 40 in Pa., and 19 hijackers. Islamic al-Qaeda terrorist group blamed.
2002
June 14, Karachi, Pakistan: bomb explodes outside American consulate in Karachi, Pakistan, killing 12. Linked to al-Qaeda.
2003 1
May 12, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: suicide bombers kill 34, including 8 Americans, at housing compounds for Westerners. Al-Qaeda suspected.
2004
May 29–31, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: terrorists attack the offices of a Saudi oil company in Khobar, Saudi Arabia, take foreign oil workers hostage in a nearby residential compound, leaving 22 people dead including one American.
June 11–19, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: terrorists kidnap and execute Paul Johnson Jr., an American, in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. 2 other Americans and BBC cameraman killed by gun attacks.
Dec. 6, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia: terrorists storm the U.S. consulate, killing 5 consulate employees. 4 terrorists were killed by Saudi security.
2005
Nov. 9, Amman, Jordan: suicide bombers hit 3 American hotels, Radisson, Grand Hyatt, and Days Inn, in Amman, Jordan, killing 57. Al-Qaeda claimed responsibility.
2007
Dec. 11, Algeria: more than 60 people are killed, including 11 United Nations staff members, when Al Qaeda terrorists detonate two car bombs near Algeria's Constitutional Council and the United Nations offices.
2008
May 26, Iraq: a suicide bomber on a motorcycle kills six U.S. soldiers and wounds 18 others in Tarmiya.
June 24, Iraq: a suicide bomber kills at least 20 people, including three U.S. Marines, at a meeting between sheiks and Americans in Karmah, a town west of Baghdad.
June 12, Afghanistan: four American servicemen are killed when a roadside bomb explodes near a U.S. military vehicle in Farah Province.
July 13, Afghanistan: nine U.S.soldiers and at least 15 NATO troops die when Taliban militants boldly attack an American base in Kunar Province, which borders Pakistan. It's the most deadly against U.S. troops in three years.
Aug. 18 and 19, Afghanistan: as many as 15 suicide bombers backed by about 30 militants attack a U.S. military base, Camp Salerno, in Bamiyan. Fighting between U.S. troops and members of the Taliban rages overnight. No U.S. troops are killed.
Sept. 16, Yemen: a car bomb and a rocket strike the U.S. embassy in Yemen as staff arrived to work, killing 16 people, including 4 civilians. At least 25 suspected al-Qaeda militants are arrested for the attack.
Nov. 26, India: in a series of attacks on several of Mumbai's landmarks and commercial hubs that are popular with Americans and other foreign tourists, including at least two five-star hotels, a hospital, a train station, and a cinema. About 300 people are wounded and nearly 190 people die, including at least 5 Americans.
2009
Feb. 9, Iraq: a suicide bomber kills four American soldiers and their Iraqi translator near a police checkpoint.
April 10, Iraq: a suicide attack kills five American soldiers and two Iraqi policemen.
Dec. 25: A Nigerian man on a flight from Amsterdam to Detroit attempted to ignite an explosive device hidden in his underwear. The explosive device that failed to detonate was a mixture of powder and liquid that did not alert security personnel in the airport. The alleged bomber, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, told officials later that he was directed by the terrorist group Al Qaeda. The suspect was already on the government's watch list when he attempted the bombing; his father, a respected Nigerian banker, had told the U.S. government that he was worried about his son's increased extremism.
Dec. 30, Iraq: a suicide bomber kills eight Americans civilians, seven of them CIA agents, at a base in Afghanistan. It's the deadliest attack on the agency since 9/11. The attacker is reportedly a double agent from Jordan who was acting on behalf of al-Qaeda.
2010
May 2, New York City: After discovering a bomb in a smoking vehicle parked in Times Square, authorities arrest Faisal Shahzad, a Pakistani who recently became a naturalized U.S. citizen, and charge him with attempted use of a weapon of mass destruction and several other federal charges. American officials later announce that the Pakistani Taliban likely played a role in the bomb plot, including training Shahzad.

The underwear bomber. The shoe bomber. The ink-cartridge bomber. 9/11. Foreign-born Muslim males age 17-40. Profiling isn't prejudice or racism. It's just statistics.

@Porksandwich

Definitely. Whatever happend to apprenticeship? Me, as a programmer, I would have loved the chance to get involved in a real company as a part of my education and have some guidance from someone working inside the industry. Give the company a bit of money for the effort, in exchange the students get real-world experience and can build a net of contacts and the companies can pick out talents. Mix the work with studies in theory, maybe the companies would even pick up new processes and advancements from the academic world through the students.

>> ^Porksandwich:

@<a rel="nofollow" href="http://videosift.com/member/chtierna" title="member since September 25th, 2008" class="profilelink">chtierna
I understand the stresses of it, but a lot of it is brought about by the attitude that you need 99% graduation and 99% job placement. and 99% this and that.
And I know university classes are about learning to think instead of learning subject matter or how to. But if this is the case then cheating is not helping. And allowing cheating is not helping. But their goals are now primarily "making money" instead of education. So that said, I wish they would venture a little and do the 4 year program but allow students who complete the 4 year do 6-12 months of "trade school" type projects where they learn to put their education into practical applications. Even allow businesses to give the school some hardware/money/whatever to let the students finish these projects in this period of time. And allow for people to apply themselves directly to work projects while being able to have access to the school faculty, that way they can find deficiencies in their teaching and fix them plus allow students to find their weaknesses and address them through a little research of their own and application.
It always frustrates me to see how much people embellish on their resumes and their job descriptions when you see what they actually do. But this comes from there being no baseline for comparison, some people get paid less and do much more difficult work but it's presented less........."colorfully" on their resume than the higher paid stuff.

I know they have professors help military bases with teaching programs and such and even consult with businesses. I don't see a problem with businesses working more closely with universities to get some cheap/free work out of it, find some potential hires and make both the school and the business more attractive to current and potential employees.
At least then it could potentially lead to another revenue source for the university that doesn't harm the students by allowing cheaters to ruin the program. Might even convince more undergrads to go into graduate programs if they do the work and find they really like portions of it and want to specialize.

@chtierna

I understand the stresses of it, but a lot of it is brought about by the attitude that you need 99% graduation and 99% job placement. and 99% this and that.

And I know university classes are about learning to think instead of learning subject matter or how to. But if this is the case then cheating is not helping. And allowing cheating is not helping. But their goals are now primarily "making money" instead of education. So that said, I wish they would venture a little and do the 4 year program but allow students who complete the 4 year do 6-12 months of "trade school" type projects where they learn to put their education into practical applications. Even allow businesses to give the school some hardware/money/whatever to let the students finish these projects in this period of time. And allow for people to apply themselves directly to work projects while being able to have access to the school faculty, that way they can find deficiencies in their teaching and fix them plus allow students to find their weaknesses and address them through a little research of their own and application.

It always frustrates me to see how much people embellish on their resumes and their job descriptions when you see what they actually do. But this comes from there being no baseline for comparison, some people get paid less and do much more difficult work but it's presented less........."colorfully" on their resume than the higher paid stuff.


I know they have professors help military bases with teaching programs and such and even consult with businesses. I don't see a problem with businesses working more closely with universities to get some cheap/free work out of it, find some potential hires and make both the school and the business more attractive to current and potential employees.

At least then it could potentially lead to another revenue source for the university that doesn't harm the students by allowing cheaters to ruin the program. Might even convince more undergrads to go into graduate programs if they do the work and find they really like portions of it and want to specialize.

@mgittle

Im 5'11" my dad is probably 6'1" or 6'2". Brother with the broken disk is 6'4"ish.

They told my brother that taller people tend to have a lot of disk problems especially in their lower back that shorter people don't have. Even so much so that their disks tend to be weaker as they get older. But they said seeing that kind of injury in someone under 30 was extremely rare and wondered if he had some kind of degenerative disease and found nothing to suggest it.

The union crews for physical labor will cover you better than working on your own. There's usually enough laborers that you don't have to go for extended periods of shoveling or anything like that. And anyone not in the unions are usually young or have substance abuse problems if they are still laborers and not doing something higher up the food chain by the age of 30-35.

Anymore we stick to the least amount of handwork possible, even if it takes us a little longer with a machine. But there are some things that machines can't do even a little bit of on every job so we try to spread it out between us and over a few days if possible.

If you want to see what a life of manual labor can do to you. Find an old guy who does tires, replacing, removing...anything like that. I haven't seen one that can stand up straight no matter what their height, they all have that hunched over like they are looking for something on the ground look to them.

But the simple fact is, a lot of the work is needed.....and if you want someone who won't screw it up you need the older guys who've seen the various problems that might come up. Lot of crews that have 1-2 40ish guys running a crew....they get young guys who get hurt bad or killed on the job because they skip stuff that seem like wasted time. Properly securing things (dropping equipment in the middle of the freeway, this stems from substance abuse as much as negligence, lots of people run around with unsecured loads against all laws and never get caught), not stacking stuff next to the edge of a deep ditch (caves in the ditch wall and can crush someone in the ditch below it or at least crack them in the head, was an inspector who got the top of his head sheered off when some bricks went down into a ditch he was trying to climb out of and caused to collapse), staying clear of machines or making sure the guy on the machine knows you're there (guy got backed over by a dump truck, broken legs from people twisting bobcats and catching people in the legs next to it, etc).

Im too afraid to work on highway crews, those guys work in a dangerous as hell place and usually only have a few barrels protecting them from someone running them over. Was a girl who was running a roller, a semi went by and hit her in the head with it's side mirror. She was in the hospital for months before she died. And then you got all the machines and people working in the little confined spaces in the middle of both sides of traffic, so you can't hear very well...

Probably the best place I've ever worked doing asphalt was on a military base. Don't have to worry about people vandalizing or stealing your stuff and they stay away from you while you work. And they can follow simple ideas like barriers are meant to keep you out and arrows mean follow them around the big hole in the ground. And you got prevailing rates, but it was just a lot less stressful to not have to worry about getting ran down because someone wanted to rubberneck.

Military spending by the pentagon and homeland security doesn't reflect all the money spent on "defense". There are billions in military spending through the department of energy (anything nuclear) as well as other bureaucracy such as NSA, NASA, commerce and transportation, all charged with the illusionary goal of "security". Hidden billions upon billions.

Further, there is billions in veterans benefits, and interest on loans for past spending. We also have over 450 military bases around the world, the operations of which do not fall solely within the pentagon budget. And that is before we get to the sweet tax deals given to the military industrial complex, which basically sub-contracts out work to almost every congressional district in the country, ensuring that our economy and our employment are tied to military spending, and that congressional representatives never vote against a "defense" measure, no matter how retarded. (Notice how Obama goes to India and claims to be creating jobs because the Indian government has ordered a whole bunch of C-47's? ... our own president is chief sales rep for the military industrial complex.)

Most importantly, as a factor in DISCRETIONARY spending, we are way past 50% of the discretionary budget on military spending. The US, by quite a margin, is the most militaristic nation in the world.
http://www.warresisters.org/pages/piechart.htm

I can't wait for there to be a fallout from this tomorrow. If only to nudge people into studying what is happening in Iraq. The shifting in alliances has been rapid. Their going on about torture and civilian deaths is not what the US is concerned about. They can easily spin that to their population. I suspect that they are concerned about the US people realizing that there are no plans, or contingency plans for leaving 'strategic' military bases in Iraq.

>> ^Sylvester_Ink:

I really want to support the DCS series, but I don't care for their drm. Guess I'll just wait for Lead Pursuit's next release . . . if it ever comes.


DRM never stops anyone, it only hurts the end-consumer.

Years ago I heard about a few teenagers breaking into a military base and going for a joy ride in one of the push-button-ignition Hummers. I can now picture a teenager breaking into a military installation and flying off with his own jet thanks to this game

Nice spin job, @NetRunner. So the Democrat position was "let's reinstate the draft so we can motivate Republicans to end the war"? News flash, we no longer have a Republican acting as Commander in Chief so if the Dems really wanted to end the wars then... why don't they?

For that matter, why don't they close down the 700+ military bases in the 150 countries overseas? Why not put an end to the US as an Empire? Because they like it that way. They enjoy war as long as they're on the winning team. They think violence is moral and justified if it creates an end they desire.

Sometimes I think staunch supporters of Republicans and Democrats are nothing more than narcissistic sadist sociopaths. What ugly and awful people.

>> ^thinker247:

So it's not okay to build a mosque near Ground Zero, but it's okay to build US military bases in Islamic countries?


Somewhat different topic, but why is it ok for the US to have military bases in any other country? Could you imagine an Iraqi base in the US? Even if one of their closest allies, the British had one, there would be a lot of people getting upset about that too.