There was quiet a bit of priming to go along with that experiment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priming_(psychology)

but no actual conditioning. This also has to do with proximity of authority, and proximity of victim. I thought it was a very good experiment.

There are plenty of good books out there, in one book I saw a graph that showed murder was extremely below aggravated assault. Look for unbiased research, that has nothing to do with politics, thats why 2nd amendment research is all askew, and presidential poles are poisoned. Dont know what this has to do with milgrams... other than non biased numbers.

In reply to this comment by Crosswords:
Milgrams Experiment any one?

Actually the scariest thing about the Milgram experiment is the people weren't conditioned, at least not by the experimenters, they went in and obeyed the closest thing to authority.

I'd hazard a guess there's a genetic/evolutionary component to that, kind of like how people are programed to see faces in things, there's a component that compels us to obey authority.

Milgrams Experiment any one?

Actually the scariest thing about the Milgram experiment is the people weren't conditioned, at least not by the experimenters, they went in and obeyed the closest thing to authority.

I'd hazard a guess there's a genetic/evolutionary component to that, kind of like how people are programed to see faces in things, there's a component that compels us to obey authority.

charles mansion proves that with proper conditioning a group of people can be made to do damning things.

Milgrams Experiment any one? People can and will be manipulated every day, will you be one of them? We should all strive to free our minds.

Ever wonder why the testing rooms for standardized tests have only one clock in them? Or no clock at all? Or One very loud clock?

http://land.netonecom.net/tlp/ref/vk2k.shtml

This talks about what you talked about below.

In reply to this comment by blutruth:
To all those who would say that Americans would rise up against a rule of martial law, I have a couple of points to make. Keep in mind that I'm doing this mostly to play Devil's Advocate, but also to hopefully contribute to the discussion.

1. First, and I could be wrong about this, but I think that it would be safe to say that the subset of Americans who would amass any significant stockpile of weapons and know how to use them would share a sizable overlap with the subset of Americans who are either in the military or have been in the military. Would it not make sense, if one were planning to do something that would cause an uprising, to send as many of these military men and women out of the country? Maybe to Iraq or Afghanistan, or to hundreds of military bases around the world? This would keep them away from the country they swore to protect.

2. To those who would argue that those in the military would desert when given an order to harm their fellow countrymen, I would submit the Milgram experiment as an example of the flaw in that argument. It has been demonstrated that if a superior is willing to take full responsibility for their actions, people will rarely exercise any self control when in contact with their fellow man, especially when verbally pushed to do so. This doesn't even take into account threatening soldiers with violence against their family if they were to refuse, or other less than pleasant ideas.

I wouldn't say that I believe that something incredible will happen between now and November 2 that would "necessitate" martial law, but I would not be surprised if something does.

I would say to you, "be prepared", but I'm not sure what preparations one could make for those kinds of events.

@blutruth
1. The US census lists the number of Vetrans in the US at 24 million (I'm not sure if by Veterans they mean exmilitary or ex war time servers). The current size of the US military is 3 million (1.5 active, 1.5 reservists). On top of that there is the abundance of sportsman in the US that would also probably pick up a rifle. The military would be handily outnumbered. Also, considering the fact that we currently have a paper thin military fighting two wars overseas, and this conspiracy theory requiring the initiation of a third, who exactly is going to enforce this martial law? Our military is pretty busy at the moment.

2. The Milgram experiment. Even in the Milgram experiment they were only able to get 65% to follow to the end. The Milgram experiment isn't directly comparable because it suffers from the trolley problem, there's a big difference between pushing a button and shocking someone in another room and pointing a gun at someone and shooting them. Also, my impression when I was in was that Bush isn't exactly seen as a holy man worth killing countrymen for. Ron Paul was the candidate the military backed the most after all. The military is about as sick of Bush as the general population is.

@slash
2. Russia, China, and the UN are going to aid president Bush by enforcing martial Law for him. You are an idiot. The international community wants to see Bush gone more that the American community wants him gone.

Sure, Bush could very well attack Iran before he leaves office because he is an idiot. Suspending the elections and instituting martial law though? This is deep into tinfoil hat territory. Iraq is only the size of California and we still haven't squashed the insurgency there. Yet we're going fight in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Iran and still find enough troops somewhere to occupy the US as well. Maybe it makes an entertaining thought but it is not plausible in the least.

To all those who would say that Americans would rise up against a rule of martial law, I have a couple of points to make. Keep in mind that I'm doing this mostly to play Devil's Advocate, but also to hopefully contribute to the discussion.

1. First, and I could be wrong about this, but I think that it would be safe to say that the subset of Americans who would amass any significant stockpile of weapons and know how to use them would share a sizable overlap with the subset of Americans who are either in the military or have been in the military. Would it not make sense, if one were planning to do something that would cause an uprising, to send as many of these military men and women out of the country? Maybe to Iraq or Afghanistan, or to hundreds of military bases around the world? This would keep them away from the country they swore to protect.

2. To those who would argue that those in the military would desert when given an order to harm their fellow countrymen, I would submit the Milgram experiment as an example of the flaw in that argument. It has been demonstrated that if a superior is willing to take full responsibility for their actions, people will rarely exercise any self control when in contact with their fellow man, especially when verbally pushed to do so. This doesn't even take into account threatening soldiers with violence against their family if they were to refuse, or other less than pleasant ideas.

I wouldn't say that I believe that something incredible will happen between now and November 2 that would "necessitate" martial law, but I would not be surprised if something does.

I would say to you, "be prepared", but I'm not sure what preparations one could make for those kinds of events.

No problem. Everyone needs to know this basic Psych 101 information. I hope it makes it to the Top 15. It might have made it there already, had it not gone dead temporarily. Hence my promote, to help make up for lost time.

In reply to this comment by RhesusMonk:
Thank you, sir!

In reply to this comment by kronosposeidon:
*promote the sad, harsh truth about human behavior

Thank you, sir!

In reply to this comment by kronosposeidon:
*promote the sad, harsh truth about human behavior

My professor mentioned these experiments as an example of misinterpreting experimental results and the importance of debriefing your participants.

The wrong interpretation of this experiment, without aid of debriefing, is that group conformity is making people believe something that they wouldn't otherwise believe. Whereas the more correct interpretation seems to be that bored undergraduates don't care enough to pay attention or make waves and just want their extra credit.

The video above mentioned two possibilities- the subject who genuinely believes himself to be wrong and the subject who just doesn't want to make waves. But I don't think that emphasizes just how little vested interest the subject actually has in the experiment. They have no motivation to be correct! Of course you can get a measurable social pressure when the task is completely meaningless. And still, 2/3rds of the time people still say the correct answer.

Anyway, with this experimental setup only the first possibility is really interesting in my opinion. And apparently Asch died without know which possibility was dominant.

see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asch_conformity_experiments and
http://www.zainea.com/socialconformity.htm (I don't accept the interpretation the authors give in that study).

The Milgram experiments are much more informative about authority pressure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

Thx for the heads-up. Replaced it with another vid that recounts the experiment.

In reply to this comment by atara:
*dead

Hey, thx a lot. Different video entirely, but it still captures the same (if not a better) picture of the experiment. Seriously, you're awesome. (That's twice in one week!)

In reply to this comment by kronosposeidon:
>> ^atara:
dead


Atara's right, your Milgram video is dead. Sorry.

EDIT: Here's a possible replacement:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1f85l_presentation-de-lexperience-milgram_events

>> ^atara:
dead


Atara's right, your Milgram video is dead. Sorry.

EDIT: Here's a possible replacement:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1f85l_presentation-de-lexperience-milgram_events

http://www.videosift.com/video/The-Original-Milgram-Experiment-1961 Dead

^actually, Milgram is the name of the psychologist who administered the shock/learning experiment in 1961. This experiment has been compared to the Milgram experiment because of its exposure of human behavioral conformity under pressure from authority despite preexisting morality or other natural tendencies.

Also know as the Milgram Experiment. More sifts = http://www.videosift.com/search?q=Milgram