>> ^Fusionaut:

How to end the drug war and take power away from organized crime: decriminalize drugs.


No. Decriminalization of drugs will have very little affect on organized crime.

Decriminalization is simply moving the common citizen's punishment from being caught using illegal drugs from criminal to civil - it does nothing about the supply chain for these drugs. In many cases, criminal punishment will still exist for anyone falling under the growing/producing, selling, or transporting category.

But decriminalization isn't completely ineffectual; it will dramatically raise the quality of life of users and provide an official avenue for addicts to get help before hitting rock bottom (although it may just open up the avenue for people/organizations to step into rather than actively providing.)

To disrupt the organized crimes' profit from illegal drugs, you have to provide other sources of these drugs. Pure and simply, this is supply and demand. There will always be some demand.

>> ^entr0py:
Oh. . . so the allegation is that the ATF was holding back in taking down petty gun runners so they could gather evidence to take down the entire organization. The same sort of tactic that the FBI often employs in fighting organized crime within the US.
I get sick of these deceptive video titles. Obviously there's a huge difference between committing a crime and failing to stop it. I was all set to rage against the ATF, now what?


"ATF claims to hate 'beaners and spics'"

Your video, CBS News: US ATF Secretly Arming Mexican Drug Cartels, has made it into the Top 15 New Videos listing. Congratulations on your achievement. For your contribution you have been awarded 1 Power Point.

>> ^entr0py:

Oh. . . so the allegation is that the ATF was holding back in taking down petty gun runners so they could gather evidence to take down the entire organization. The same sort of tactic that the FBI often employs in fighting organized crime within the US.
I get sick of these deceptive video titles. Obviously there's a huge difference between committing a crime and failing to stop it. I was all set to rage against the ATF, now what?


The ATF SHOULD have confiscated these guns. It is their job. Human beings died! Human! *Expletive!* Beings! (And no, it does not matter if they are drugrunners or whatever, they are HUMAN BEINGS!)

There is the picture of one American at the end who died... but Mexicans are people too, sound strange, I know. Where there was the one picture of one American there should also have been the epicture of every single lowlife, innocent bystander, drug runner and junkie next to the one American. Because all of those lifes which should have gone on, ideally in prison for the criminals and happily alive for the innocents, are now no more!

>> ^entr0py:

Oh. . . so the allegation is that the ATF was holding back in taking down petty gun runners so they could gather evidence to take down the entire organization. The same sort of tactic that the FBI often employs in fighting organized crime within the US.


No, that's not the allegation, that's just the excuse the ATF are using now it's public.

If that had been their actual intention they would have been working with Mexican officials to track the guns once they crossed the border, then arresting those in possesion of the guns, and making cases against them.

As stated in the video "It was all kept secret from Mexico".

Once the tide of public opinion starts rolling, no army can stop it. The Prohibition fascists don't realize they've already lost. Unjust laws should be disobeyed.

The whole world is watching this vote. If Prop 19 passes, once the other states see the "windfall" (which won't save CA btw) they'll also pass similar. It won't kill the Mexican drug cartels but it will blacken their eye for sure.

>> ^kymbos:

I love the way it degenerates into an 'American Conversation' in which both people talk and neither listens.


I find it amusing to note that yet again, it's the conservative side that is the first to interrupt the person speaking.

If alcohol is legal..then so should weed. It doesn't get any simpler than that. The guy's argument about how it gives a legal platform for the mexican cartels is standard fearmongering..they make all their money BECAUSE it's illegal. Legalize it..grow it in the US by US citizens and those mexican drug cartels lose a LOT of their income. Smaller prison population...more tax revenue. more freedom. win win win win.

Who do you think helps fund the opposition to legalization?

>> ^rougy:
So...what I'm hearing is...some people think that treating Palistinians more harshly will make them stop strapping bombs to themselves? You know, show them who's boss?
I wonder how many Palestinians were killed by the IDF this month?
Wonder how many Israeli's were killed by Palestinians?
Is it a one-to-one ratio? Probably not.
And the settlers? That really is an issue that has to be addressed. To all the world, it just looks like a racist land grab. I'm sorry to say that, but it's hard to describe it any other way.
Shalom.


My point was, that the treatment was not harsh for harshness' sake. The point is to make it impossible for a suicide bomber to be able to strap on a bomb and get inside an Israeli city. If there were no suicide bombers, there would be no wall...

I happen to be one of the vast majority of Israelis who had a friend die to a suicide attack. This isn't a far-away news story to me. This is real life.

I don't have any numbers for you on the Israeli vs Palestinian deaths this month, but what if I did? Do you really think anyone would be content at a one-to-one ratio? Yes, they only have under-equipped, under-manned squads of guerrilla fighters. Is it conceivable to you that any nation with an army wouldn't use it to defend it's own citizens?
Tell me you honestly believe that if a Mexican drug cartel started suicide-bombing San Diego, the US army would stand by and do nothing...

I'm against the settlers and their entire agenda. To me they're a bunch of religious fanatics that only want to do what they think God told them, and that happens to be "Take back all the parts of Israel that aren't part of Israel any more" at the moment.

We evacuated Gush-Katif once (The settlements in Gaza, some of which were whole towns, with shopping centers and all) and we can evacuate the current ones. Not with this government however, since half of the ministers are settlers themselves...

I sincerely hope Netanyahu keeps going with Obama in this direction, but I can't see it happening with the current government. Ah well. Governments last 2-3 years here, so let's hope Livni gets more votes next time...

>> ^Psychologic:
I doubt legalization would have a noticeable effect on the economy. The reason a lot of people buy weed is because they're too scared to grow it themselves due to its highly-detectable nature. If people decide to grow their own then it wouldn't do much to increase tax revenue. It would help state prison budgets, but not enough to help the economy significantly. Enforcement money would still be spent, but it would be directed at other drugs like meth.
It should still be legalized though. Besides our complete inability to control it in the first place, the only people it hurts are willing participants. People already use marijuana despite its illicit nature, so legalization would have the benefit of redirecting a large portion of any money involved to legitimate organizations.
The desire to use weed isn't going away, and as long as supplying it is profitable there will always be underground organizations willing to supply it. You could get rid of every mexican drug cartel that exists today and they would be replaced within a month... there is simply too much incentive for people to get rich supplying something that so many people want but are too scared to grow themselves.


Well put, Psychologic.

I might add that even if economic benefit to the economy is modest, I think that there will still be positive impact.

Just think of how many more people could be working and producing actual goods in the economy if the prisons were emptied of non-violent, marijuana-related offenders. The government savings from food and housing costs once eligible prisoners are released would be in the millions of dollars. The labour provided by the ex-cons would only add to that benefit.

I doubt legalization would have a noticeable effect on the economy. The reason a lot of people buy weed is because they're too scared to grow it themselves due to its highly-detectable nature. If people decide to grow their own then it wouldn't do much to increase tax revenue. It would help state prison budgets, but not enough to help the economy significantly. Enforcement money would still be spent, but it would be directed at other drugs like meth.

It should still be legalized though. Besides our complete inability to control it in the first place, the only people it hurts are willing participants. People already use marijuana despite its illicit nature, so legalization would have the benefit of redirecting a large portion of any money involved to legitimate organizations.

The desire to use weed isn't going away, and as long as supplying it is profitable there will always be underground organizations willing to supply it. You could get rid of every mexican drug cartel that exists today and they would be replaced within a month... there is simply too much incentive for people to get rich supplying something that so many people want but are too scared to grow themselves.