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Destruction of the black family

newtboy says...

Shocker, black people still get married today, you idiot.
So dumb he doesn’t notice his point is based on a racist trope.

Edit:Another shocker, after 1970, all racists became Republicans because Democrats began (slowly) working towards racial equality. This was known as the Southern Strategy and was how Republicans tried (and succeeded) in getting the Southern white vote. Bob likes to pretend this isn’t well known history because he knows it means his party is intentionally outrageously racist and that if you are a racist today you are right wing by definition.

Judge Pronounced Trump Guilty Before Trial Began!

newtboy says...

🤦‍♂️No bob, they are not. THE FACTS WERE NOT DISPUTED BY TRUMP OR THE TRUMP ORG AT ALL, not in court…he submitted most of them.
Trump disputes the facts on camera, but not in court under oath. He can’t. The documents are what they are. He was too cowardly and guilty to take the stand…his smartest move yet.
Trump valued Maralago at $18 million for taxes, not the DA. He also valued it at 100 times that value to get good loan terms that saved him hundreds of millions the banks and county were then deprived of because of his fraud. Understand? I’m sure not.
I did the math, if his stated bank values are truthful, he defrauded the government out of well over $700 million in decades of unpaid taxes for one property.

What was presented during the prosecution “side” of the “hearing” bob? Nothing…because there was no prosecution phase, it was summary judgement based on what was presented by both parties during DISCOVERY. There has only been a “damages” phase of trial since the prima facie case made at discovery necessitated a sumary judgement…not a “prosecution side”.

Bob. This is civil court, not a criminal trial. Please stop trying to explain things you are wholly ignorant about.

In your example, a criminal trial with different rules, the defense could be you didn’t see them, or they dove in front of your moving car, or you were having a medical issue….or one of a thousand mitigating factors. Trump presented no mitigating factors explaining the frauds, the differing values that changed 10000% in value on paper with his signature swearing to the truthfulness of the values he presented, values he knew were fantasy, so was found guilty.
(Side note- in your example the victim’s heirs would also get a civil trial where prima facie guilt would be established by the witnesses and your admission you hit them and you would need to have evidence supporting your affirmative defense that it was under duress to evade liability, just as they would need to prove malicious intent or recklessness to get punitive damages, IMO).

😂 “Property values can’t be fraud in any way”. 😂 hilarious since submitting fraudulent values is exactly what he was found guilty of! 😂

The banks indicated massive fraud, who told you they didn’t? Trump? The banks lost over $180 million in interest they should have received if the collateral values had been correct. Yes, they made some money, but lost out on $180 million plus.
When you get a loan based on fraud like this, even if you pay it back you still comitted a crime and any penny you made from that crime can be recovered from you, exactly what’s happening.
It’s as if Trump submitted documents “proving” his credit rating was 800 but in fact it was below 400, then saying it’s no crime because he paid his low interest credit card bills, pay no attention to the lower rates and perks he received because of his fraud, they’re nothingburgers…$180 million nothing burgers.

This is a BS showman disgraced ex president caught red handed. You know it, he knows it. No one is blinded, you are simply dishonest.

What of me statement are bullshit or not in this hearing/case?
The disclaimers don’t mean Trump can just make up the numbers, like he did. I know he claims that, he already lost that point in court. He gave fraudulent numbers, values, square footage, claimed unpermitted unbuilt rentals were filled and collecting rent, claims he didn’t add “brand value” but it’s there listed on the documents.

lol. You get your “information” from crack heads, failed comedians turned pundits, and con men like rapist Trump. I get mine directly from the courts, then verify, then look at what nonsense MAGA is saying about it, then debunk your nonsense. Stop projecting. I’m not stupid. I’m no dick. I have almost no ego. I simply hate stupid lies and the stupid lying liars who lie them stupidly and I have the testicular fortitude and perspicacity to factually contradict them with facts, figures, and references.

You don’t ever look for shit, you liar. You take what the MAGA machine hands you and you say what they said to say. You haven’t had an individual thought since you’ve been posting here, not one. Every word you post can be found in the MAGAsphere written by someone else who makes money by telling you lies to repeat.

Yes, Trump was found guilty during discovery before the courtroom trial began, which is perfectly normal and reasonable in cases where the evidence is incontrovertible like this one. That’s the United States legal system, no surprise you don’t understand it….you don’t understand thing about my country.

Now whine that he couldn’t have a jury trial just because he didn’t ask for one until after his trial had started. So unfair! 😂

bobknight33 said:

But the facts are disputed , which mitigates the ability of the judge to make such decision. This was presented during the 11 weeks of the prosecution side of this hearing.



It only work is such cases as for example 5 people see me run over and kill someone. That is not is dispute.
What is or could be to mitigate my conviction is to show just cause -- IE being robed at gunpoint or such.


This "trial" is about property value. This cant be fraud in any way. Trump places a value and banks do the same and an agreement is made. No bank or lender indicated fraud -- Every bank got paid back, with interest and some made other deals on other projects.

This is a BS show trial. prejudged before it even started.

Only the ignorant are blinded.

All you statement below are bullshit -- none of that in this hearing. Every proposal for loans clearly had disclaimers for banks to do their own due diligence in their evaluation. Some thought higher some though lower-- but all made loans and got paid back.


Sadly stupid dicks with big egos, like you push false information.

I look for actual facts like presented -- Her own words - Trump Guilty before the trial began-- Thats BS

Elon Musk: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)

newtboy jokingly says...

I just mean isn’t a prerequisite for any cartoonish supervillain to have a white fluffy lap companion in homage to Ernst Stavro Blofield?
Hank Scorpio being the exception that proves the rule.

cloudballoon said:

for a mini Musk? Hmm... now that I think about it, his ego wouldn't even allow mini Musk to share some of the spotlight.

Weekend Update: Christmas Joke Swap 2023 - SNL

newtboy jokingly says...

Right, he has more practice…but after the “little art films” he’s not getting any protection from the Avengers…he might want to try sleeping on his ferry for a while. I’m pretty certain previous years has ensured he gets no police protection. That’s what I mean by no safe harbor, Che still has home to go to.

“Y’all need Jesus” was great. The Beyoncé joke was good too, pissed off all black women at once, but IMO Jost is definitely in more danger.

cloudballoon said:

I mean... Jost's been living under police (or Black Widow) protection for years since Che's been owning him every Joke Swap. It's something that need not be said anymore.

This is the first time Che's in sweating territory though. From just 3 words! That's a credit to Jost. I think Jost did better this year than any others, even though he still couldn't beat Che (a foregone conclusion).

The fake poet/activist black lady move is genius on Che's part, there's just no win for Jost, and her no contact with Jost is just pure humiliation from beginning to end.

Weekend Update: Christmas Joke Swap 2023 - SNL

cloudballoon says...

I mean... Jost's been living under police (or Black Widow) protection for years since Che's been owning him every Joke Swap. It's something that need not be said anymore.

This is the first time Che's in sweating territory though. From just 3 words! That's a credit to Jost. I think Jost did better this year than any others, even though he still couldn't beat Che (a foregone conclusion).

The fake poet/activist black lady move is genius on Che's part, there's just no win for Jost, and her no contact with Jost is just pure humiliation from beginning to end.

newtboy said:

Che!?!
I’m pretty sure it’s Jost that’s left with no safe harbor here!

bobknight33 (Member Profile)

newtboy says...

😂 It’s really hilariously satisfying to hear you to whine about what is in fact absolutely normal court procedure, clearly forgetting you’ve found both Clinton and Biden (and at times every democrat) guilty before any investigation even started. 😂

It’s also hilarious that despite talking about them constantly you idiots have no idea what communism or socialism are, clearly you have absolutely no clue what the words mean, only that you are supposed to be outraged if they’re invoked.

Hint, they don’t just mean some imagined judicial misconduct, not that any occurred here but it is the baseless accusation you are making.

bobknight33 said:

Trump found guilty even before the trial starts.
*Derp*

bobknight33 (Member Profile)

newtboy says...

😂 Trump decided Eric had done enough damage to his case under cross examination and had him not testify for the defense.
Not good when you don’t want the person who was running the company during the period in question to testify in the business’s defense…not that he would have helped. 😂

Trumps “expert” witness admitted that, if the charges that Trump’s already been found guilty of are correct (and that’s what being found guilty means), that’s massive intentional fraud. He also testified that he had absolutely no knowledge of the facts in the case besides the minimal hyper biased data Trump supplied him (like his insistence that Maralago is worth $1.5 billion despite Trump previously going to court to argue it’s worth under $20 million for taxes, and not revealing the deed that has multiple permanent conditions that severely minimize the property value to under $20 million).

He’s already lost the case, he lost before it started and now it’s all about damages, but his defense has been so ridiculous it’s likely NY will get MORE than they’ve asked for AND banks will be coming after him for $200 million+- in interest he should have paid had his loan applications been valid. I’m pretty certain Trump doesn’t have the money to pay a half billion in fines and judgements, he doesn’t have the cash to pay his own legal bills, and won’t have his businesses to make more after the Trump crime family is tossed out of New York for underhanded criminal business practices. You better send him some of that sweet sweet Tesla cash you made, he needs you. 😂

bobknight33 (Member Profile)

newtboy says...

😂 Trump is up in arms over that Lincoln Project ad, he claims they made him look stupid old and fat. I’m pretty certain it was Trump who made Trump look stupid old and fat by being stupid old and fat! 😂

Here’s an older one he didn’t claim was doctored where they use most of the same clips, and he looks like he looked….old, fat, unhealthy, and unsteady.


Bonus- McCarthy is leaving congress in disgrace at the end of the month. So is Bill Johnson. That paper thin majority in one half of congress is down to one.

Extra bonus- Trump’s “best legal people” screwed him again by missing another deadline, again, out of pure laziness… this one to appeal the reinstatement of the gag order before he testifies next Monday (can’t wait for that train wreck), and they totally screwed up the appeal too, asking for a single judge to hear their appeal after a 4 judge panel ruled on it and overrule them. The next step is the entire NY Supreme Court, not one cherry picked judge to overrule a 4 judge panel. Any competent lawyer would know that, no one on Trumps team did. They’re trying an ineffectual council defense, but that means he expects to be convicted first and is so certain of that that he isn’t trying to offer any defense at all, just incompetent attorneys. 😂

newtboy said:

*video of Trump being old, fat, feeble, and exhibiting dementia*

Ooof-

bobknight33 (Member Profile)

newtboy says...

lol. Manly Traitor Greene now says she was terrified for her life on Jan 6 because the armed violent rioters were so threatening and she was only saved by an unnamed congressman with a gun.
Of course, she’s claiming with no evidence that they were armed ANTIFA agents she was so afraid of (showing she doesn’t understand what ANTIFA is) and ignoring that every conviction so far has been a MAGA moron who say in court that they tried to steal the office of president for Trump.
Hilariously she doesn’t realize she’s now calling the very convicts she likes to visit in prison and call “peaceful tourists” armed rioters that made her fear for her life on Jan 6.
How does she think Pelosi felt? They weren’t chanting “where’s Marjory” while shitting on HER desk and ransacking her office.

As a bonus, Trump’s lawyers just filed a brief looking for more discovery in which they assert “Russia, through its government funded channel RT and other means, executed a Kremlin directed campaign to undermine faith in the (incumbent) US Government and fuel political protest.” (Which would clearly favor the challenger….now who was the challenger in 2016?). Yes, this is Trump arguing in court filings that he needs unredacted classified documents for his defense because Russia interfered in the 2016 and 2020 election on his behalf! 😂

How Bad is The Cost of Living Squeeze In the US?

newtboy says...

I’m still waiting for you to explain how 75% inflation over 22 years becomes 150% increased prices under Biden as you claimed. Please, I need your expertise in mathematics to make the world make sense. 😂


To my dumber than a bag of hammers-
😂 🤦‍♂️ 😂
So that’s a “yes”, you do think the economy is worse now than in 2020 solely because inflation is doubled and you don’t understand earnings/purchase power . 🤦‍♂️
I grant you, inflation is still elevated, but down near 2/3 and well below what other countries are experiencing, so is getting better not worse. Hyperactive economies can tend to have inflation issues, and the Biden economy exploded like it was made of lithium deuteride.

Yes booby, prices have gone up on average, they always do…and on average everyone makes more too….much more. If prices go up 3% and wages go up 6% you have 3% more buying power, A GAIN…that’s pretty basic math for it to go so far over your head. In 2020 prices went up near 1.5% (for items still on shelves) but wages went DOWN near 6% (for those who were still employed) for a >7% LOSS in buying power. See how Bidenomics is better yet?

Probably not…ask a 3rd grader…is being able to buy 3% more yearly better than only being able to buy >7% less than last year?

Earning power is rising fast, double inflation, so are GDP and employment rates unlike under Trump when not only was there still inflation (granted much less thanks to the floundering MAGA economy) but wages actually went down significantly GDP went NEGATIVE and up to 20 million jobs evaporated thanks to mismanagement (NZ didn’t have that problem).

When inflation is barely above 3% and wages are rising at near 6%, yes, things cost more, and average people can also BUY MORE you fucking idiot.
I know, that’s keeping two things in your head at once, so impossible for you to comprehend, but trust me, that’s reality. You should try it some time.
You think you have something because inflation went up, largely thanks to Trumps horrific last year of hyper spending and the economic crash his mismanagement caused but also due to Biden’s economic recovery outpacing the most optimistic predictions…but you are too dumb to see the other half of the earning equation…wages. Since earnings are rising at double inflation, people can buy more.
Again, in 2020 wages went down almost 6% with 1.5% inflation (during a massive negative gdp) so earning power went down by almost 7.5%…today inflation is 3.24 but wages are rising at nearly 6%, giving a RISE in earning power of 2.75%. That is a >10% difference, going from a 7.5% loss of buying power in 2020 to a 2.75% rise this year…and no recession. That’s called winning.
Inflation is only one part of the equation, buddy, and is absolutely meaningless without the other parts.

Yes, I repeated myself…I hoped by saying it over and over some might get through.

Interest rates…😂😂😂 true, Biden didn’t lower rates to zero and still have a stalled economy, he had to raise them to combat inflation…it worked, and hasn’t stalled the boom yet. You claim to be rich…high interest rates shouldn’t mean a thing to you…or do you really carry massive debt and aren’t really rich at all? 😂

As a side note, the stock market is also booming, paying great for those who are invested. Similar to wage growth since many (like me) live off investment earnings.

Gas prices have dropped sharply, today below $3 in 1/3 of the country and $.22 lower than a year ago on average. That’s costing LESS! Try again.

Many staple food prices are lower too. National average turkey prices were cheaper than last year, so are eggs. Try again.

According to Edmonds, “ The good news is that, in general, prices have been on the decline since late 2022. In May 2022, the average selling price of a vehicle was about $721 over MSRP. Compare that to July 2023, when the average selling price was about $714 below MSRP.”. Try again.

American's purchase power is rising, under Trump it plummeted like never before. I know, you just don’t understand. It’s ok boob. Adults understand.

I bought a bag of hammers for $10 at a yard sale…it was incredibly smart of me. I got about 10 hammers including 3 small sledge hammers and 2 metal framing hammers. My bag of hammers purchase was quite smart. 😂

Boob, get a brain. You might ask the scarecrow how he got his, because you really need help. I’ve never met a person as dumb and delusional as yourself, and I’ve known some real idiots.

Try this simple example.
Last week a soda cost you $1, and you made $12 an hour ($1 every 5 minutes). This week a soda costs $1.20 but your pay went to $15 ($1 every 4 minutes). Yes, the soda costs more this week…INFLATION!…are you better off now or were you better off with cheaper soda last week? Show your work. (I’m pretty certain that second grade math is just too hard and I won’t see a reply).

THIS IS WHY YOU FAIL EVERY TIME BOOB. BECAUSE YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU RANT ABOUT AT ALL.
GO TO SCHOOL AND LEARN THE BASICS.

bobknight33 said:

" it’s better by every single measure used to measure any economy."

Gas , food , cars, interest rates all cost more.

-Your dumber than a bag of hammers.

How Bad is The Cost of Living Squeeze In the US?

newtboy says...

Shows your delusion perfectly.
It’s not worse, it’s better by every single measure used to measure any economy.

Inflation has turned around and is down to 3.24% with wage gains outpacing it by almost double, and wage gains were the highest ever at 15.28 % in April of 2021 under Biden and a record low of -5.89% in April of 2020…who was president then? Low inflation doesn’t mean shit when unemployment is at record highs wages are actually going DOWN, shelves are bare, and GDP is NEGATIVE!!
Negative wage growth is the same as inflation…it lowers earning/spending power…so does losing 15-20 million jobs!
So, combine wage growth and inflation then average in the unemployed at $0 income to get average earning/spending power, you will see earning/spending power was much LOWER in 2020 under Trump even for those that kept their jobs…when you could actually find anything to buy that is. 🤦‍♂️
I know you don’t remember a hour ago, but many of us remember 2020, the terrible, horrible, no good, very bad year in so many ways ending in a coup attempt.

Good management turned what Trump left, a triple decker shit sandwich in a festering sewer and guaranteed recession at best according to every economist, into a boom so great inflation spiked higher than just thanks to Trump wasteful overspending and pure handouts to business owners with completely unregulated no background check no repayment PPP loans, but Biden’s fed handled it and inflation is barely above average and well below all other G7 nations by far.

You think the economy is worse now than record high unemployment record low wage growth record low gdp record discretionary federal spending and record business closures!?!…by what measure buddy? What measure? Inflation is down, earning power is up….WAY UP. Your feelings don’t mean shit….in fact, fuck your feelings snowflake.

bobknight33 said:

Inflation.

nuff said
Your old play book of blaming the previous administration is pure BS.
If Biden was handed a shit sandwich He has had 3 years to push policies to turn the ship around . But he hasn't It is worse.

Officers Amazingly Keep Straight Faces During this Arrest

cloudballoon says...

Not sure about Florida's custom on suspected DUI....but... I mean, the dude even admitted to having 6 in 2 hours. Why not just get him to take a breathalyzer test and be done with it? What a waste of "policing" time.

bobknight33 (Member Profile)

newtboy says...

And now we have multiple top administration officials and lawyers like Meadows, Scovino, and Ellis admitting under oath that in December Trump was saying he didn’t care that he lost, and didn’t care what the courts said, he was not going to leave the White House under any circumstances, he was just going to stay in power….as if we didn’t already know.
Because I’m sure you don’t understand, that is criminal intent, direct evidence of election fraud and multiple attempted coups, and 100% undermines any attempt to pretend he thought he won or was doing what he believed was right for him to do as president….in fact now only he can make that claim himself by testifying under oath in open court…and please oh please let his lawyers be that stupid. Er mer gerd, please be that stupid.

Enjoy being firmly on the traitors team. Don’t be surprised to wake up to find a big “T” branded on your forehead some day, Americans don’t like traitors.

Bonus-Lol…today fraud and coward Senator Mullin “accepted” the challenge to physically fight a union leader in the senate chambers knowing that the capitol police were there to protect him and not allow a fight, once again displaying MAGA’s complete lack of respect for America and your total cowardice.
If he wanted to actually accept the challenge, he would have done so either in a place where a fight could happen, or publicly and arrange a sanctioned ring fight, but he instead hid behind his security and only when safe pretended to accept.
If he actually wanted to fight then and there Bernie Sanders would not have immediately stopped him using just words.
Even better, after the union leader accepted the challenge then and there and the senator sat back down at Sanders’s order, he tried to pretend the union leader had gone silent and hid from the fight, a pure fabrication of events that just happened in public view and that we have recorded.
He never intended, nor does he intend to accept the invitation to a fist fight, this was pure false bravado staged for a photo op in congress…that tank of a union leader would have flattened him out thin enough for even you to see through him. 😂
If he’s really a tough guy, let him accept a sanctioned cage match like the guy suggested. MAGgot coward wouldn’t show up because he’s a kindergarten child, not a man.
such infants you crybabies are.

Second bonus- Speaker Johnson is already on the ropes, incapable of putting together a budget plan even his party will vote for (definitely not one that will pass the senate), is angering the same extremist MAGgots that tossed McCarthy and got him the position, and has SERIOUS financial disclosure issues like hiding his wife’s income and assets for his entire 7 year tenure, and pretending that he’s a man of minor means, so poor on only $205k (+ his wife’s income, and her unreported undisclosed LLC’s income, and the millions in freebies he doesn’t report) a year that he doesn’t have any bank accounts, and failed to disclose multiple gifts from multiple sources of at least $20k despite being required to report anything valued over $400. He’s not going to survive the year in office.
Meanwhile Greene and Gaetz are holding sham meetings of (in their own words) “shadow congress” to spout covid and vaccine misinformation, conspiracy theories, and outright lies on taxpayer dollars instead of doing the work of congress.
His criminal failures mean another Republican shutdown just in time to ruin Thanksgiving and Xmas, expected to be the busiest travel season ever while not paying tsa or traffic controllers will be an unmitigated disaster…you think people won’t remember who did that again?

Third bonus- Kevin McCarthy is now accused of battery of another Republican congressman while he was being interviewed in the Senate hallway, confirmed by the reporter. When Burchett chased him down he hid behind security and denied it, then ran away like a MAGA coward.
Gaetz has filed a formal ethics complaint.
MAGA and the Republican Party are falling apart at the seams, so flustered at constantly losing and looking moronic and anti patriotic that they are physically fighting each other and civilians in congress…and it’s delicious. 😂 Kindergartners have better self control, and it’s on full display constantly.

Enjoy political oblivion. White racist bigots are many and loud, but there’s not enough of you to elect anyone, and everyone else in your party has left.

Israel-Hamas War: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)

newtboy says...

There’s lots of reporting on Hamas saying they want to eradicate Israel (without the ability to even do damage 99.9% of the time, certainly not eradication), but very little reporting of the Israeli government saying the exact same thing about Palestine while actively doing so using US supplied advanced weaponry at bombing rates never before seen, and dropping them on civilian populations.

There’s little mention that Palestinians die at around 20 times the rate Israelis die despite having less than 20% the population of Israel (and extreme high death rates mean 50% of Palestinians are children).

Gaza is an open air prison where inmates serve life for the crime of being Arabs in their native land. Electricity flows a maximum of 3 hours a day in good times, food is scarce, and under 10% have access to clean water. There are no jobs, and there’s a very good chance your family will die together at home from indiscriminate bombing.

They have nothing to lose because Israel has taken everything from them over 70 years of ever expanding violent military occupation including their humanity.

The Israeli military spokesman said this campaign is intentionally not targeted, and is designed to do maximum damage to Palestine not to target Hamas. That’s another war crime.

Why in the fuck are we supporting and supplying clear undeniable, even proud war criminals!? That should make congress and Biden war criminals themselves. Send them all to The Hague to defend their actions if they think their actions are defensible.

If we use Israel’s metrics, that makes all Americans war criminals prime for righteous retaliation by the law abiding world. Not a good plan.

Edit: Side note- Israel has apparently made no move at all to negotiate hostage releases. In fact, they claim the hostages are held in the very tunnels they are bombing, so they are in fact targeting the hostages. Don’t let them get away with the lie that they are invading and raising the city to save them. They refused to consider pausing bombing for two days in exchange for their release, pretending Hamas might be miraculously completely resupplied and reinforced if they did.

Palestinian UN Ambassador At UN

newtboy says...

Edit: I misunderstood …. When you flee to somewhere you aren’t welcome, you invaded. That’s not characterization, it’s definition. If my home isn’t safe so I force my way into yours, I invaded your home…even if my friend down the street said it was ok.
It’s not a legitimate motive to invade a foreign country and murder, subjugate, and ghettoize its inhabitants because you aren’t safe where you live. There is no legitimate motive for those actions.

I think you take great liberty deciding the “Arab narrative”. That may be the Hamas narrative, it’s not the Palestinian’s history, and I think few claim it is. At first they were and acted like refugees, welcomed by Arab natives, some of which were Jews themselves, then shortly after began exponentially increasing immigration to overpower the natives, coming armed. They had no right to take by force food, shelter, and safety from those who had offered it to a much smaller portion of needy Jews…they in fact had an obligation to do the exact opposite and minimize their impact on their TEMPORARY HOSTS, and ensure their benefactors didn’t suffer for their generosity. This was not even a fleeting thought for the invaders.

The violent Zionists were intentionally courted and invited then supported and encouraged by those you say were “getting along”, so your point is misguided.

That native population was displaced by a concerted effort to forcibly immigrate en masse and seize control. The natives eventually balked, but too late and the overwhelming masses of armed violent Jewish invaders took over.

I’m in a camp that doesn’t give a shit about religion, they’re all idiotic nonsense, but believes in law and order, and invading people seizing control by force and dehumanizing the natives is not a thing I’m prepared to gloss over or erase with one sided details. I don’t gloss over my own country’s inhumane origins of genocidal racism against our natives, and I support any measure that returns anything they’ve been stripped of.

I’m also in a camp that doesn’t think it’s ok to murder and rape Peter to pay Paul for Patrick’s bill. The Palestinians bear zero responsibility for Jews treatment in Europe. None.

I’m also in a camp that believes “refugee” means you are a guest until you can return home, not a new citizen with more rights than natives.

The European Jews there are invaders acting terribly unreasonably, they’re very Trumpian in their actions, any slight against them is an excuse to go full bore Hitler against those kids with rocks.

I don’t “just declare invasion”. It was an invasion.
Foreign people came unwanted and illegally into the country and took over by force. That’s called an invasion in English by most definitions, and an invasion it was.
The forceful invaders are ALWAYS the bad guys, the oppressors are ALWAYS the bad guys, the expansionists are ALWAYS the bad guys. That describes all the Israeli people. They are the bad guys, whether they intended to be or not.

bcglorf said:

"Who the fuck cares what the reason they wanted to invadeflee was?"

Characterization matters a little here, no?

"They had a right to refugee status there, not to take control and possession by force"

Which is at the heart of things.

The Arab narrative is that Jews arrived guns loaded and set about pillaging, killing and invading as soon as they had sufficient numbers, while the poor domestic Arab population had only been trying to assist and welcome in the refugees...

Which is ahistorical propaganda.

The reality is that for the most part, the European Jews arriving in Palestine were refugees and acting like refugees. Meaning they mostly just wanted to be able to provide food, shelter and safety for the families, just like everyone else. Most of them tried to set about doing this by legally purchasing land.

Lots of the local Arabs similarly were content to get along.

At that same time though, there were hardcore Zionists among the Jewish arrivals AND there were xenophobic elements willing to use violence within the Arab population too.

The tensions rose as the populations rose, but largely as a result of a large people being displaced, and NOT as the planned invasion you describe. The local Arab population started to band together to refuse to work, trade or sell to Jews. Violence broke out instigated separately on smallish scales by BOTH sides. Escalating violence followed, again back and forth between sides.

I'm in a camp that has a hard time blaming either the domestic Arab population for distress at the huge influx of refugees, nor for the European Jewish people having a low tolerance for discrimination and violence directed there way solely for being Jewish.

I see it as a huge mess, but with two large populations of Jewish and Arab people in Palestine acting not terribly unreasonably under circumstances of extreme pressure.

I think it's lazy and convenient to just declare 'invasion' so that you can simplify it all down to right/wrong and good guy/bad guy....



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