>> ^longde:

How do you know that people don't know about Tianamen? Of course they do; it was a nationwide protest! But I think for some kids to have an in depth opinion of something that happened so long ago is like asking me (born in the early 70s) about Kent State. Yeah, I know something happened; but I wouldn't be able to really expound upon it.
There are many current issues that have prompted Chinese citizens to protest against their government, with results. Two examples. People in China protest against the government all the time. Of course the state run media suppresses things. But with the internet and cell phone technology, it's like trying to plug up the ocean. When the Chinese gov't starts to hire Fox News consultants, then I will really worry.
China vetoing a Security Council proclamation is not the same as China oppressing Syrians. C'mon.
Lastly, these students are arrogantly giving a lesson. They are giving their opinions and insights in the spirit of dialogue.
>> ^njjh201:
I'm not American, but as long as China's government forbids its children from learning about a massacre that took place in the centre of their own capital city little more than 20 years ago, in the midst of a pro-democracy protest of the sort that China is now suppressing in Syria, I'll take no lessons from their teenagers.
I'm astounded by how irrelevant you think such recent history is. Let's see one of these kids have the ambition to make China a country where people get to choose their own destiny and government. Let's see how long they're still free to talk to journalists then. The USA has a Nobel peace prize winner in the Oval Office. China threw theirs in jail.



I think you are missing the point behind asking about Tiananmen. It's not their lack of knowledge, but rather the lack of freedom to speak about it. If you plan to continue living in China and climbing the ladder, appearing on camera speaking against the Tiananmen massacre is risky and not a particularly wise move.

If you want a current example ask about Taiwanese independence and you'll find most of the sympathy and support for non-intervention suddenly evaporating.

Don't dismiss the veto of the Syrian motion so lightly either. There is no question that unarmed civilians in Syria are being killed by the Syrian military. The Arab league itself was the one asking for the UN motion that China and Russia vetoed. Complaining about the damage FOX does is great, but at least be even handed enough to recognize the direct damage also done by vetoing the Syrian motion...

How do you know that people don't know about Tianamen? Of course they do; it was a nationwide protest! But I think for some kids to have an in depth opinion of something that happened so long ago is like asking me (born in the early 70s) about Kent State. Yeah, I know something happened; but I wouldn't be able to really expound upon it.

There are many current issues that have prompted Chinese citizens to protest against their government, with results. Two examples. People in China protest against the government all the time. Of course the state run media suppresses things. But with the internet and cell phone technology, it's like trying to plug up the ocean. When the Chinese gov't starts to hire Fox News consultants, then I will really worry.

China vetoing a Security Council proclamation is not the same as China oppressing Syrians. C'mon.

Lastly, these students are not arrogantly giving a lesson. They are giving their opinions and insights in the spirit of dialogue.

>> ^njjh201:

I'm not American, but as long as China's government forbids its children from learning about a massacre that took place in the centre of their own capital city little more than 20 years ago, in the midst of a pro-democracy protest of the sort that China is now suppressing in Syria, I'll take no lessons from their teenagers.
I'm astounded by how irrelevant you think such recent history is. Let's see one of these kids have the ambition to make China a country where people get to choose their own destiny and government. Let's see how long they're still free to talk to journalists then. The USA has a Nobel peace prize winner in the Oval Office. China threw theirs in jail.

Media Silence on Kent State Revelations
http://www.counterpunch.org/2007/05/07/media-silence-on-kent-state-revelations/

by accident, @marinara?

How do you accidentally open fire on protestors?


This is an excellent article on the events:
New Kent State Video Evidence Points Towards FBI Provocateuring


The word “Guard!” can be heard around 11 seconds. “All right, prepare to fire” begins at around 20.5 seconds. “Get down!” is spoken at 23 seconds. The final “Guard!” is at about 25 seconds, and the gunshots begin at 27.5 seconds.


The order to fire directly contradicts claims from guard commanders who testified that there was no order to fire and that troops unloaded their weapons only after receiving incoming sniper fire.

The tape was given to Yale in 1979 for its Kent State archives by an attorney who represented students in a lawsuit filed against the state over the shooting. It was originally recorded by a student named Terry Strubbe who put a microphone at the window of his dorm, which overlooked the rally.

Subsequent analysis of the tape also uncovered an altercation and four pistol shots a little over one minute prior to the Guard gunfire. It is believed that the shots came from Terry Norman, who was at the time believed to have been an FBI informant.

Despite attempts by Ohio Congressman Dennis Kucinich to pave the way for a new federal investigation, the evidence has remained largely ignored.

Pepper spray doesn't work? Lay on hands. Hands don't work? Water cannon. Water cannon doesn't work? Rubber bullets. Rubber bullets don't work? Kent State!
I have no political agenda. My concern is that if peaceful protests are not allowed, the situation escalates. If protestors are orderly and peaceful, not blocking access, and are no threat, then leave them alone it's their right.

>> ^JiggaJonson:

I have the eerie sense another Boston Massacre is around the corner.


I was thinking more Kent State.

I think things are fundamentally different now. Police have learned new tactics. I don't think a Kent State will happen.

Besides, we have mini-Kent States all the time with the stupid war on drugs. But because those people aren't "innocent", nobody seems to care.



In reply to this comment by Yogi:
My question is...is this like the 1960s? Do we need a Kent State? I hope not.

My question is...is this like the 1960s? Do we need a Kent State? I hope not.

Well, that was an easy one to disprove. Via Wikipedia:

Riots in the 1970s
1970 - Kent State shootings, May 1970, (Kent, Ohio, United States)
1970 - Hard Hat riot, Wall Street, May 8, 1970, (New York City, New York, United States)
1970 - Harakat Tahrir riots, June 17, 1970 El-Aaiun[citation needed]
1970 - Falls Curfew (Belfast, Northern Ireland on 3–5 July 1970)
1970 - Fatti di Reggio, July 1970, (Reggio Calabria, Italy)
1970 - Koza riot, December 20, (Ryukyu Islands, United States, later Okinawa Prefecture, Japan)
1971 - May Day Protests 1971, May 1971, (Washington, D.C., United States)
1971 - 1971 Springbok tour (Australia)
1971 - Camden Riots, August 1971, (Camden, New Jersey, United States)
1971 - Operation Demetrius (Northern Ireland on August 9–11, 1971)
1971 - Attica Prison uprising, (Attica, New York, United States)
1971 - Indo-Pakistani War of 1971
1972 - Bloody Sunday (Derry, Northern Ireland on 30 January 1972)
1972 - Operation Motorman (Northern Ireland on 31 July 1972)
1973 and 1974 - Athens Polytechnic uprising, Greek student riots and revolution at National Technical University of Athens, military junta overthrown, (Greece)
1973 - Oklahoma State Penitentiary Prison Riot, (McAlester, Oklahoma, United States)[citation needed]
1973 - Ageo incident, Tokyo Metropolitan Railways Riot,(Tokyo and Saitama, April 1973)[citation needed]
1974 - Cherry Blossom Festival at the Richmond Stadium, (Richmond, Virginia, United States)[citation needed]
1974 - Ulster Workers' Council strike (Northern Ireland, May 1974)
1974 - Ten Cent Beer Night, (Cleveland, Ohio, United States, June 4, 1974)
1975 - Chapeltown riot Leeds, West Yorkshire ,England
1975 - Nieuwmarkt riot, March - April 1975 (Amsterdam, Netherlands)
1975 - Livernois-Fenkell riot (Detroit, Michigan, United States)
1975 - European cup Final 1975, Leeds United riot in Paris
1976 - Vitoria Riots, March 3 (Vitoria, Basque Country, Spain)
1976 - Kobe Festival Riot by motorcycle gangs (Bōsōzoku), May 15 in Japan
1976 - Notting Hill Carnival Riot (London, England)
1976 - Soweto Riots (Soweto, South Africa)
1977 - 1977 Egyptian Bread Riots, January, 1977, (Egypt)
1977 - New York City Blackout riot, July 1977, (New York City, United States)
1977 - Sri Lankan riots of 1977, (Sri Lanka)
1978 - Rameeza Bee Riots, (Hyderabad, India)
1979 - Disco Demolition Night, (Chicago, Illinois, United States)
1979 - White Night gay riots, May 1979 (San Francisco, California)
1979 - Greensboro Riot/Shootings, Nov. 1979, (Greensboro, North Carolina, United States)
1979 - Southall Riots, (Southall, West London, England)

>> ^quantumushroom:

Of course, watching an atheist angered by a lack of morality in the populace is hilarious. People didn't regularly act this way 40 years ago. What changed?
Not everyone proclaiming to be a Christian follows Thou shalt not steal all the time, but more of them have values than the ones raised with....NOTHING.


So what's the reason that all these god-fearing, morally-informed-with-superior-'Christian'-values people engaged in riots? Ummm... maybe it is because the proximate causes of a riot are based on economic and societal conditions and not prevented by a 2000 year old book. Also worth noting in the list is included Bloody Sunday, which, if I remember correctly, was part of a conflict based on rival gangs within your beloved Christianity kicking the shit out of each other.

>> ^lwi:

doesn't Grayson have a laptop, a projector and powerpoint? the cardboard slides seem so anachronistic..


This was on the floor of congress, and I don't think they're allowed to do anything else but use placards.

Here's the source they cite: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/may/04/new-light-shed-on-kent-state-killings/?page=2

A simple google search of "Kent State FBI Declassified" comes up with a slew of other sources, most of which probably pull from each other.

>> ^dgandhi:
>> ^Skeeve: Considering these are "Less that Lethal" devices that are meant to be used instead of weapons that kill people I'm very glad police forces are investing in these.
I call bullshit.
Please cite one example of police use of "less lethal" devices in which the rules of engagement call for lethal force.


Remember Kent State? While the "rules of engagement" may not have called for lethal force, it seems rather obvious that the lack of anything between billy clubs and guns directly contributed to the student deaths.

<all good people are asleep and dreaming>

every truncheon, hit misguided the peoples army, divided
united stance, amped out war dance
what a ride

inner thought, of non violent rebellion
outside dare to die, stand and fight
show faith, return all the weapons
government says use them right

fixed action set in motion doubting
amnesia potion what to hide red carpet
guessing right

HAHA the jokes on You, dark corner destroyer
HAHA you bath once a week
distorted, the viewpoint, seldom seen

wayback in 68
ohio, kent state
was nothing, so great

have of have not
forcing the point
shot in the back
take it back
down trod soldier away

flower power within me, kill me
kill this, way of life

<all good people are asleep and dreaming>

and be known one by one
they'll be coming down
altogether sister machine gun
automatic high what a ride
what a trip tripped over the candlestick

Firewall, tanks arrive
got to keep the camera alive
tell the world, tell the world, whats going on here

warning shots are fired, at the students chest wound, coed falls
amped out, amped out, amped out, amped out

changing guns for brooms the guards, change to clean up crews

HAHA the jokes on You, dark corner destroyer
HAHA you bath once a week
distorted the viewpoint
seldom seen

way back in 68, every thing was so great
no way, wrong date

keep up the trade
balanced charade
close circuit truth
used to remove
keep the camera alive!

My parents were both there as students. My mother was in the parking lot in the line of fire.

To this day my mom frowns every time she thinks about Neil Young & co. They were invited to the campus for a memorial service a year or two after the massacre, but CSN&Y refused to come play. Neil Young didn't even visit Kent State until the 1997 commemoration.

Reference include:
KISS
Patty Hearst
MAD Magazine
Jimmy Carter
Sonny & Cher
Fonzie
Polaroid Instant Cameras
Baseball cards
Comic books
Billy Jack
David Cassidy
Donny & Marie
Farrah Fawcett
Burt Reynolds
Danny Bonaduce
Monsters Magazine (no info )
Star Wars Two
Studio 54
Jaws
Jimmie Walker
Richard Nixon
Sigmund and the Sea Monsters
The Incredible Hulk
ERA
Rev. Charles Mahaney
70's Gas Crisis
Smiley Face
The Six Million Dollar Man
Kent State Shootings
Shaun Cassidy
Freddie Prinze
Richard Pryor
American Bandstand
Evel Knievel
Cheech & Chong
Steve Martin
Animal House
Charlie's Angels


There are some I'm missing...mainly at 1:12 (on the TV and to the side)