I asked you how you can possibly think it's never been near the middle, you replied with essentially '100 years ago it wasn't close'.

That question, 'when have I had to fight for my right to vote', was either rhetorical or idiotic, I chose to give you the benefit of a doubt and assume rhetorical, but if you insist you're an idiot.....I have had to fight for my right to vote only once when my registration was not updated, which isn't the fight for women's suffrage but few alive fought that fight and none who still run marathons....it's not applicable. No woman involved (at least not the white women) has had to fight for that right personally.

I don't have time to answer that fully, because it's happened repeatedly. Specifically, there have been several classes I've wanted to take that were women only, I'm a pure honkey who lived in East Palo Alto, on more than one occasion I was turned away from stores/restaurants...usually by customers not the owners, and once chased by a group of men due to my race, sexual orientation, never, the gays I've known love me and I'm totally cool with them...and they're pretty all inclusive with events....but on reflection I'm sure there have been "girls trips" I would have been invited on had I been gay, if that counts.

Now, I asked you 4 questions you ignored completely, so which are you, exceptionally dumb or a troll X4? ;-)

I totally agree, it would be poetic justice for the immigrant haters to have to live without them...I just don't want to have to do it too just because I'm a total honkey.
Can't we just offer them a white supremacist only state and have them all move there, then close the borders and build that wall? ;-)

So wait...am I racist because I had a Hawaii themed party last year? Am I sexist because I and other men there wore flower pattern skirts and coconut bras? We played native Hawaiian music, but no one tried to Hula...I was afraid we'd get it wrong and anger the volcano.
I also threw a 'white trash' party last year, and built an outhouse and still in my front yard for it. Am I a self hating honkey?

The 'white twitter' thing is weird, because there IS a 'black twitter', isn't there? I hear it reported about all the time.

Agree that we disagree then.
I say statements about races are racist, since they are being divisionary by race. I say not all discrimination is discrimination against the target, but all discrimination is discrimination.
'Cry me a river' is not the same thing. If I heard him say 'little girls are all worthless bitches' but he really said 'some people think little girls are all worthless bitches, but they aren't' I would still think him a jerk for saying the offensive word to a little girl. I think that's closer to the topic. When a single word is the offensive remark, not the entire statement, context means less, and certainly not all.
When Mark Twain did it, yes it was racist, intentionally so, but also reflective of reality, so not wrong of him to portray racism as it existed.
As I said, most people tolerate a low level of racism, and intent also colors their response quite a bit. Because it's tolerable, even palatable, doesn't make a statement not racist.
Pryor was hilarious, and racist as shit! As I said, I think comedians get a 'pass' for being racist (EDIT: by which I mean SAYING racist jokes, not actually being racists) if they're funny enough. You are free to disagree, but you won't convince me his humor wasn't racist, not ever. That didn't make it not funny, or make him a bad person, it made him a comedian that used racism to expose and ridicule racism, as I see it. There's nothing wrong with that, unless you need him to be completely non-racist (a 1 on my earlier scale), then it's a big problem.
I don't need that from anyone, I just wish for a reasonable, non-hateful, non discriminatory (against people) level of racism from those around me (although even that can still be harmful, I know, but people are never perfect and I don't expect them to be).
Yes, I've heard people say that they would 'kill somebody', and didn't think they meant it. I tend to try and avoid those kinds of people, or at least correct them, as the unedited excessive anger is a sign of a lack of restraint. I wouldn't think them homicidal, anymore than I expect Pryor at a militant black panther rally, but I would think of them as lacking restraint and so possibly dangerous (at least somewhat unpredictable), just as I see Pryor as somewhat racist (ever hear him riff about honkeys? Hilarious...and SO racist!)

EDIT: BTW, Through the Wormhole with Morgan Freeman did a great episode about racism recently where they explained how even jokes between friends not meant or taken seriously can actually still tint how your subconscious sees race...making you (and those exposed) slightly subconsciously racist a little more each time you are exposed to negative portrayals, even when you know they aren't serious or realistic portrayals. It was a great and informative episode, I highly recommend it.

Cause honkeys are gonna honk.

Tags for this video have been changed from 'History Channel, The Bible, In Under 10 Minutes, Parts 1 and 2, God loves honkeys' to 'History Channel, The Bible, In Under 10 Minutes, God loves honkeys, cult of dusty' - edited by xxovercastxx

Tags for this video have been changed from 'History Channel, The Bible, In Under 10 Minutes, Parts 1 and 2' to 'History Channel, The Bible, In Under 10 Minutes, Parts 1 and 2, God loves honkeys' - edited by Fusionaut

let me clarify a few things:

-I didn't say you wanted the comments to flourish; I don't think you do. I'm saying I don't think you would mind or care if they did. I see you as indifferent.
-I never said or advocated a permaban for people making racist or hate statements. I do think such statements should be prohibited; there are many ways to do so, just like we prohibit other things on the sift.
-We have to use some judgement, but hate or racist statements against any race should be off-limits. I also see the distinction about statements which are about race and racist statements. What stood out for me in BKs comment:
*The tone of the comment; I didn't read any sarcasm, irony or jest in the comment; and BK didn't clarify that there was any.
*The blanket, non-factual statement which cast all members of the race in an extremely negative light. Let me put it this way: If BK had said "BurdT, this is why people call you nigger" I think we agree that would be bad, since it targets BurdT specifically due to his race. However, BKs statement is much worse, because rather than target BurdT only, he is slurring any and all black people who will read the thread. No qualifiers; these people on the video are scum, so you of the incidental same ethnic group are also scum. WTF
*Using "nigger" was the least of it, IMO; but clearly he was using it its most derogatory way

Yes, I can ignore BK, but what about new potential black sifters? Shouldn't the sift be a welcoming place to all? When statement like that are not called out and dealt with, it implies acceptance to those unfamiliar with the sift.

>> ^blankfist:
>> ^longde:
We have a tolerant community -- for racial slurs against and a hostile environment against certain groups. A few of us want to discourage that, while others don't mind if that behavior flourishes.
I thought you said the original statement went over the line. Now in the same thread, you say its a benign comment. Which is it?
And what makes you the arbiter of what should and should not offend someone? What benchmark do you use to determine what goes over the line. Also, if you really think that a comment which haphazardly disparages a whole group is OK, what anti-black statement would be over the line.
No one on here wants the racial comments to "flourish". Let's scale back the hyperbole a touch, please.
His comment was relatively benign. I see that there's probably some racism in his heart, which I don't condone, but that doesn't mean I want to see him banned over it.
You seem to want some hard and fast rules. But then how would you enforce those? No suggestion of racism or you're banned? No alluding to racist speech? Don't say "n word" because it's the same as "n er"? What would make you the arbiter of what is enforced as "hostile" and what isn't? Would you tolerate bans of people calling rich white people greedy or honkeys? Or is it that some racism is tolerated?
We have a great community here, and we've been surprisingly tolerant and civil over the past five years, so let's not go mucking that up by finding excuses to run unpopular members off the site.

>> ^longde:

We have a tolerant community -- for racial slurs against and a hostile environment against certain groups. A few of us want to discourage that, while others don't mind if that behavior flourishes.
I thought you said the original statement went over the line. Now in the same thread, you say its a benign comment. Which is it?
And what makes you the arbiter of what should and should not offend someone? What benchmark do you use to determine what goes over the line. Also, if you really think that a comment which haphazardly disparages a whole group is OK, what anti-black statement would be over the line.

No one on here wants the racial comments to "flourish". Let's scale back the hyperbole a touch, please.

His comment was relatively benign. I see that there's probably some racism in his heart, which I don't condone, but that doesn't mean I want to see him banned over it.

You seem to want some hard and fast rules. But then how would you enforce those? No suggestion of racism or you're banned? No alluding to racist speech? Don't say "n word" because it's the same as "n***er"? What would make you the arbiter of what is enforced as "hostile" and what isn't? Would you tolerate bans of people calling rich white people greedy or honkeys? Or is it that some racism is tolerated?

We have a great community here, and we've been surprisingly tolerant and civil over the past five years, so let's not go mucking that up by finding excuses to run unpopular members off the site.

Well, remember how we were talking about taxes? If we're going to play the fashionable game and tack dollar values of benefits onto people's salaries to pad the number for demagogic effect, then my effective tax rate is even smaller, more like 8% if you add the value of my health & retirement benefits to my income. You really need to consider doing your taxes yourself, clearly your CPA is doing something wrong.

So here's the thing, you say firefighters have such a sweet deal because of unions. I have an idea, how about instead of taking away unions from firefighters, why not get unions for everyone?

As for why you get flack from liberals for being a selfish fascist when you bitch about taxes, it's because you never give anyone a reason to think you're somehow being treated unfairly. There's one set of Federal tax laws, and most of us can fill out our 1040 or 1040EZ, grumble, and go on with life. You aren't running your business as a charity to help the unemployed, you're trying to make a buck. There's no blankfist tax, or anti-entrepreneurial tax. On the contrary, there are tax subsidies for small business all over the place, to the point where little middle class worker bees like me get fucking tired of hearing about it.

GE somehow paid zero taxes, and got a 3.2 billion dollar check from Uncle Sam. Instead of bitching about the insanity of that, all you want to do is fuck over all public sector employees all across the nation because you think they might be getting a slightly better deal than you.

Surely by now you've seen this:

A CEO, a tea party member, and a union worker are all sitting at a table when a plate with a dozen cookies arrives. Before anyone else can make a move, the CEO reaches out to rake in eleven of the cookies. When the other two look at him in surprise, the CEO locks eyes with the tea party member. “You better watch him,” the executive says with a nod toward the union worker. “He wants a piece of your cookie.”

That's what you're doing.

Oh, and by the way, student loans are subsidized by tax dollars. As was your K-12 education, I suspect. I bet you've also taken advantage of the services of countless thousands or millions of people who had their education paid for or subsidized by tax dollars. I bet the navy taught you some marketable job skills even (beyond the right way to use a glory hole). You were probably born in a hospital that was subsidized by tax dollars, and delivered by a doctor whose education was subsidized by tax dollars, and received vaccinations for childhood illness that were developed by research subsidized or wholly funded by tax dollars. You might even occasionally use this thing called the Internet, which is based on technology developed at DARPA as part of the defense budget.

Look, I have sympathy for anyone who's struggling to make ends meet, and I know running your own business is tough -- that's why I haven't tried it. But it's your philosophy that says people have to own their failures even if it's not really their fault. If you were working for, say, Blockbuster the last 15 years, did an excellent job, but then got laid off because traditional rentals got destroyed by Netflix, that's your fucking problem, and nobody else should have to help you out with your plight. That includes bailouts in the form of tax cuts.

Me, I want a safety net so that if you seriously fall flat on your face, you won't have to worry about having a place to sleep, and food to eat, and will still be able to go see a doctor for the STD you picked up from fucking farm animals. I think all life is precious, and that the markets are a fickle and harsh mistress, while the nanny state should always welcome you into her large, welcoming bosom.

In reply to this comment by blankfist:
Yes, LA is really fucked up. So is California in general. And so are my apocryphal firefighters and policemen.

The average pay for firefighters you linked me to doesn't account for benefits and pension, does it? That's just base salary. So, if the average pay for firefighters is just under $44k, then that's pretty much their taxable income because I cannot image what possible expenses they'd deduct, because they have zero financial risk being an employee. And I'd imagine his benefits alone would equal around $15k to $20k. And then of course their pension which is available when they retire at 55.

That's a pretty good deal. And they get women fawning over them and the vox populi calling them heros. Then there's the guy in the private sector, who's painted to look selfish and evil. People like me. But we don't have unions to protect us, give us great pensions and benefits, and we actually create jobs. I created two last year myself. That aside, the real problems with LA and CA are the unions. They were one thing when they protected proletariats from the bourgeoisie in Charles Dickens' England, but they're something entirely different today, especially when allowed to collude with government and legislators.

I grew up in a milltown in the South. You can't get more working class than that. I'm almost 40 and I'm still paying off my college loans, so suffice it to say no one helped me out. Being happy? I know what makes me happy. The same things you mentioned: not having to worry about rent, not having to worry about food, etc. But without getting too personal here, I can safely say some of that worries me right now because of what I owe to the taxman. And probably nine to eight years back I was in a really, really bad place, yet the taxman cometh. I tried to cash a honkey check, but apparently those don't exist. I guess being white only goes so far contrary to modern lib rhetoric.

What I find interesting is if someone like me bitches that the tax is too high, which it is, then some of you complain I'm selfish and refusing to pay my fair share. But isn't it you, the statists who believe in stealing my money to give to others, that are actually being selfish by laying the tax burden so heavy on the middle class? Specifically income tax.

Yes, LA is really fucked up. So is California in general. And so are my apocryphal firefighters and policemen.

The average pay for firefighters you linked me to doesn't account for benefits and pension, does it? That's just base salary. So, if the average pay for firefighters is just under $44k, then that's pretty much their taxable income because I cannot image what possible expenses they'd deduct, because they have zero financial risk being an employee. And I'd imagine his benefits alone would equal around $15k to $20k. And then of course their pension which is available when they retire at 55.

That's a pretty good deal. And they get women fawning over them and the vox populi calling them heros. Then there's the guy in the private sector, who's painted to look selfish and evil. People like me. But we don't have unions to protect us, give us great pensions and benefits, and we actually create jobs. I created two last year myself. That aside, the real problems with LA and CA are the unions. They were one thing when they protected proletariats from the bourgeoisie in Charles Dickens' England, but they're something entirely different today, especially when allowed to collude with government and legislators.

I grew up in a milltown in the South. You can't get more working class than that. I'm almost 40 and I'm still paying off my college loans, so suffice it to say no one helped me out. Being happy? I know what makes me happy. The same things you mentioned: not having to worry about rent, not having to worry about food, etc. But without getting too personal here, I can safely say some of that worries me right now because of what I owe to the taxman. And probably nine to eight years back I was in a really, really bad place, yet the taxman cometh. I tried to cash a honkey check, but apparently those don't exist. I guess being white only goes so far contrary to modern lib rhetoric.

What I find interesting is if someone like me bitches that the tax is too high, which it is, then some of you complain I'm selfish and refusing to pay my fair share. But isn't it you, the statists who believe in stealing my money to give to others, that are actually being selfish by laying the tax burden so heavy on the middle class? Specifically income tax.

In reply to this comment by NetRunner:
Okay, so LA has a problem. It's not a nationwide epidemic, the average pay for firefighters simply isn't that high. Members of congress get paid $174,000 a year, the President gets paid $400,000/yr. You probably shouldn't be paying the average firefighter more than a House freshman, and the Fire Chief more than the President.

As for your architect, I'm not surprised by that at all. If you want to tell that as a story about taxes, you're probably going to have to at least provide an example of how the math works out so that you make less owning your own business than working for someone else solely because of taxes. I bet it's mostly due to the fact that there's not really a big market for a mom & pop architect out there even in good times, and especially given the state of the real estate market right now. Running your own business isn't easy, and it's certainly not the way to get yourself a stable source of take home income in a depressed economy.

I'm of two minds about your last paragraph. Someday I think I'm going to write some big blog posts about my life, and how it shaped my political outlook. For now, I'll just say I did ultimately have a privileged life compared to most, but not by as much as you seem to assume. I'm no trust fund baby -- and I went to school with enough of those to know the difference. I have a shitload more in common with the poor working class people in the neighborhood I grew up in than I do with the trust fund set I went to school with.

The trust fund set generally felt like accumulation of wealth and status was the primary route to happiness. The more working class people in my neighborhood saw money as more of a means to an end. Happiness for them was being able to not have to worry about whether they could afford groceries, or worry about their car breaking down, or having to borrow to make rent/mortgage payments, or medicine for sick kids. They didn't really care about having the nicest clothes, a nice car, gourmet foods, or who had membership to the more prestigious country club. Those were things my rich friends talked about constantly.

I grew up constantly switching between class experiences. Over time it made me see pretty clearly that money isn't the key to real happiness. I saw lots of unhappy rich people, and lots of happy poor people. Their outlook on life had more to do with things other than money.

Anyways, it sounds like you think you're engaged in a class struggle to try to help the lower classes get a leg up on the rich. If so, great, you and I are on the same side then.

In reply to this comment by blankfist:
Dude, is it so hard to believe a public employee makes $12,000 a month? That's only $144,000 a year, not $1.4 million. It's possible. Especially since so many groups are unionized in this state.

[snip]

My CPA also told me a story of an architect who got tired of struggling as a small business and having to pay so much in taxes, so he quit the private sector to make more money working for the city. You wanna call BS on my apocryphal architect?

And I do care about the taxes I have to pay. I envy you that you don't. You must've had a great life as a lawyer's son. Always having more than you owe. I wish we all could come from there so we could also take the same sanctimonious positions you do. Only people of privilege seem to say things like, "money isn't everything." As if they scowl at the rest of us for wanting better for ourselves. Now excuse me while I go back to that mom of yours I was fucking when I told you this story.

"Look at this honkey holding his shit, though."

That's the white version.

@NetRunner, stop being a stupid cracker honkey.

>> ^blankfist:

Schlessinger obviously didn't have her 1st Amendment right trampled by people nor her radio station. The 1st Amendment only pertains to government not employers. The Amendment starts "Congress shall pass no laws..."
Government can't and shouldn't do shit about racist epithets. So suck on that, you cracker-ass honkeys.


This is a really good point, and one that the "media" is consistently failing to notice or mention.

Schlessinger obviously didn't have her 1st Amendment right trampled by people nor her radio station. The 1st Amendment only pertains to government not employers. The Amendment starts "Congress shall pass no laws..."

Government can't and shouldn't do shit about racist epithets. So suck on that, you cracker-ass honkeys.