Resisting the word atheist sounds like a good idea. I did that for a long time. It's good to be accurate when you talk. If you haven't proved that god doesn't exist, maybe you shouldn't call yourself an atheist, right? Maybe rationalist is a better word, since I acknowledge there exists a possibility that a god can exist. I just haven't seen any evidence or any reason to start believing.

But then I think about religions people. They can call themselves, Catholics, Muslims, Hindu, Wiccans. The majority of them can't have proven it to be true, since they all contradict. They don't have any special information I don't have. If they can call themselves these names, why can't I call myself an atheist?

Then I think about things like fairies. Just because someone makes the claim that fairies exist, do I have to stay agnostic about fairies? Isn't it reasonable to actively believe they don't exist? Even though there has to exist a small possibility than they can exist?

So I think I'm just going to call myself an atheist. If anyone is an atheist, it's someone like me, right?

>> ^gwiz665:
I think this is a bit of a frivolous debate.
I'm all for any couple having the exact same rights and so on, but "marriage" is a religious word, which I think they can keep to themselves. It's like saying you want to be confirmed, even though you're a hindu.
Why does "marriage" even have any civil advantages? Civil unions should be what marriage is thought of as now, and the term marriage could just be exclusive to Christians, but only a title.


I agree -- ideally, the government wouldn't recognize marriage for anyone, but civil unions for everyone. Let private institutions hand out "marriage certificates" if they wish. However, I value justice over semantics, and I highly doubt my stance will ever be adopted, so the next best thing to civil unions for everyone is marriages for everyone.

I think this is a bit of a frivolous debate.

I'm all for any couple having the exact same rights and so on, but "marriage" is a religious word, which I think they can keep to themselves. It's like saying you want to be confirmed, even though you're a hindu.

Why does "marriage" even have any civil advantages? Civil unions should be what marriage is thought of as now, and the term marriage could just be exclusive to Christians, but only a title.

Seriously though:

"Candidates can be judged on their convictions and beliefs without slapping a [Catholic | Anglican | Mormon | Protestant | Muslim | Jewish | Hindu | atheist] label on them. In fact, it might do voters a ton of good to investigate a candidates convictions and beliefs rather than just checking to see if the candidate is in the same category as them." -xxovercastxx

Candidates can be judged on their convictions and beliefs without slapping a [Catholic | Anglican | Mormon | Protestant | Muslim | Jewish | Hindu | atheist] label on them. In fact, it might do voters a ton of good to investigate a candidates convictions and beliefs rather than just checking to see if the candidate is in the same category as them.

"They're praying to their God, whether it's Hindu, Buddha... uh... Allah..." Hahaha.

I think a lot of the people around this world would be surprised to hear that Hindu and Buddha are gods.

Looks more like Shakti than Shiva, if we're going to go with Hindu deities. You know, 'cause Shiva's a dude.

Another version of this performance was sifted serveral months ago. http://www.videosift.com/video/1000-Hands-2007

The youtube poster had it wrong. This is not Shiva or Hindu, but Guan Yin (buddist goddes of mercy). Quoting myself:

>> ^twiddles:
Performers are Chinese; [...] The dancers are all deaf; part of the China Disabled People's Performing Art Troupe. See: http://www.taoism.net/guanyin/home.htm

Please refrain from making disparaging comments, belittling me, and otherwise making personal attacks. I have been very deliberately using the third person to refer to Mormons and almost everyone but you has done the same.

I accept that intolerance will never stop as long as people like you accept it as a convention of society and degrade those who attempt to eradicate it. Maybe being "sneered at" makes you feel like you have the right to tell people to accept their abuse, but come back to me and tell me to deal with intolerance when neighborhood children throw rocks at your little brother and call him a devil worshipper. I'm sorry if I seem like I feel sorry for myself. I don't know what to tell you. I'm sick of it all and no one even wants to acknowledge that it is a problem. They would rather just ignore it or tell Mormons that they deserve it. I just don't accept that this has to go on. I'm really sorry that you don't feel the same way.

And, please, do not have the gall to say that Mormons deserve it because they proselytize. Can't you see how asinine that is? Let's compare the two:

You lose some sleep or ten minutes or are annoyed because of some missionaries with a sincere desire to share a message with you that they believe to be true and that makes them happy and who leave after you slam the door in their faces.

VS.

Children brought up in ignorance who deface the cars of Mormon high school students as a result of ignorant defamation of Mormon beliefs and the resulting prejudice.

Which is worse? I dunno, it's pretty close.

>> ^MINK:
we have an angry mormon here people! look out!
seriously pinky, i can understand it's a problem if most of society think your particular origins or way of life are wrong. you are not alone, nobody likes this feeling. we all have something different about us that gets insulted occasionally. I even get people looking down on me because I am English, assuming i must be very rich and sneering at my insanely priveleged life if I complain about the price of anything at all. (it's true, i've been lucky, but i am not rich and I don't like being judged as a generic stereoptype of a nationality I have basically disowned, it fucking hurts).
There are atheists who are bullied by christians, muslims bullied by hindis, nerds bullied by jocks, this is how humans behave to each other (unfortunately).
So first of all, accept that this is never going to stop. Second of all, accept that a lot of people here are familiar with mormonism already and we STILL think it sucks, and we reserve the right to tell you so in a discussion thread about mormonism.
However we (non mormons) will NEVER come to your doorstep to tell you about atheism or agnosticism or any other ism unless you ask us. That is a big difference, and if you really want to stop people's prejudice and hate, maybe you should cut down on that side of your marketing campaign. It's just unwelcome. It doesn't matter if you are polite. When you knock on a door or approach someone in the street you are invading their space uninvited.
@deedub: you said (in answer to my question "what if you weren't born mormon"):
"There are plenty of people in my religion that are converts.
So, ask a more specific hypothetical question and I'll answer it hypothetically. There's no answer to a "what if" question without an end to the question."
That's just dodging the point. You know what I mean. If you were born in India you'd more likely be Hindu. You'd probably tell me how great Hinduism is. So if you go down the road of saying there is "only one true religion" then you are kinda being an asshole to everyone who wasn't born near enough to a source of information about that religion. And all the babies who died before they could understand language.
So... isn't the "all-city doorstep marketing campaign" just an excuse so you can all go to heaven and say "well, we TRIED to convert other people, but they wouldn't listen..."

we have an angry mormon here people! look out!

seriously pinky, i can understand it's a problem if most of society think your particular origins or way of life are wrong. you are not alone, nobody likes this feeling. we all have something different about us that gets insulted occasionally. I even get people looking down on me because I am English, assuming i must be very rich and sneering at my insanely priveleged life if I complain about the price of anything at all. (it's true, i've been lucky, but i am not rich and I don't like being judged as a generic stereoptype of a nationality I have basically disowned, it fucking hurts).

There are atheists who are bullied by christians, muslims bullied by hindis, nerds bullied by jocks, this is how humans behave to each other (unfortunately).

So first of all, accept that this is never going to stop. Second of all, accept that a lot of people here are familiar with mormonism already and we STILL think it sucks, and we reserve the right to tell you so in a discussion thread about mormonism.

However we (non mormons) will NEVER come to your doorstep to tell you about atheism or agnosticism or any other ism unless you ask us. That is a big difference, and if you really want to stop people's prejudice and hate, maybe you should cut down on that side of your marketing campaign. It's just unwelcome. It doesn't matter if you are polite. When you knock on a door or approach someone in the street you are invading their space uninvited.

@deedub: you said (in answer to my question "what if you weren't born mormon"):
"There are plenty of people in my religion that are converts.
So, ask a more specific hypothetical question and I'll answer it hypothetically. There's no answer to a "what if" question without an end to the question."

That's just dodging the point. You know what I mean. If you were born in India you'd more likely be Hindu. You'd probably tell me how great Hinduism is. So if you go down the road of saying there is "only one true religion" then you are kinda being an asshole to everyone who wasn't born near enough to a source of information about that religion. And all the babies who died before they could understand language.

So... isn't the "all-city doorstep marketing campaign" just an excuse so you can all go to heaven and say "well, we TRIED to convert other people, but they wouldn't listen..."

Jake here, 27 this week, Pennsylvania.
working on my Ph.D. in Genetics studying Herpes Simplex Virus 1. About two years to go, then post-doc work, then hopefully teaching at a small college or working for the CDC in the field/over-seas. No ropes tying me down right now except my will to finish this whole grad school thing.

I like WoW and some other games. Just bought and finished Portal in the last 2 hours and loved it. I tend to read Sci-Fi and Fantasy mostly... other-worldly stuff, escapism in other words. (Currently reading: The Chronicles of Amber, The song of Albion, Paradise Lost, Why I am a Christian, Romans.) I LOVE scrabble and play it online regularly. http://www.isc.ro/ I like fishing/golfing/martial arts/

Play piano and sax, learning guitar. Played in or directed 6 jazz bands, 1 jazz quartet, 2 concert bands, 1 marching band, 3 contemporary church bands, 1 dixieland band, 1 pit orchestra, 1 stage orchestra, 2 ska bands, and an assortment of short-lived, one-time other this and that. DJed trance, drum'n'bass, and deep house for number of years in college. Produced some trance and Drum'n'bass

I get one social night a week most weeks and I go to a local pub/restaurant Wednesday night with a group of good friends for "trivia night." We almost always win. Our trivia guy is obsessed with the Peanuts cartoons.

I'm moderate, conservative, libertarian. I think right wingers are too afraid of change...and a tad too cold and impractical. I think left wingers are more DEgressive than they are PROgressive...and a tad too whiny and naive. I think our government is far too large, too nosey, too expensive, and should declassify about 90% of all that crap they have stored away in some salt mine somewhere. Also, Block Votes are bullshit.

I'm Christian...made the real choice in college. I'm not Catholic, but I don't think they're unsaved. I respect Judaism and Israel most of the time. I respect my Islamic friends, but not radical, imperialistic clerics and their followers. I have Buddhist and Hindu friends as well, but they hardly practice.

(Estimates)
Deaths caused by war so far this year (Since Jan 1, 2008): 76,345
Abortions so far this year: 20,534,725
Births so far this year: 59,873,488
!!!

I chose this new avatar because I spend 90% of my waking hours around academics and "thinkers" who don't do much else in life and really don't get out enough.

Final thought: The internet needs a new meme STAT.

>> ^BillOreilly:
He's a great man, this video proves it.
America wasn't founded muslim, atheist, hindu, etc..., so ya'll have no argument here. Try again, kids.


you can't be serious...

or should i say, you can't be logical...

>> ^BillOreilly:
He's a great man, this video proves it.
America wasn't founded muslim, atheist, hindu, etc..., so ya'll have no argument here. Try again, kids.


hehehehe... I love your thinly veiled satire.

He's a great man, this video proves it.

America wasn't founded muslim, atheist, hindu, etc..., so ya'll have no argument here. Try again, kids.