Anyone ever use the OS called CP\M on old Kaypro computers? My first computer job in 1985 was supporting an auto salvage yard database on those computers in Texas. CP\M was painful, you could erase the hard disk you booted from, if you weren't careful. Which I did, I spent a whole day entering inventory into the hard drive, then went to back it up by erasing a bunch of floppies first. The one time I forgot to specify A: for the floppy drive to be erased, it defaulted to the C drive. So when it said "Are you sure you want to erase this disk?" I tapped Y and it erased the boot drive, with the OS, the inventory program and all that data I had typed in all day. I took a long walk and considered a career change, I was so angry. Then went back and typed it all in again.

I was pretty sure that files in the recycle bin do not have their pointers removed yet and that they are really just "moved" into a folder with special rules. I thought the pointer got removed when they were really deleted.

BTW, your link has a typo in it. Also, I can plug DBAN which does the same sort of thing, but for the entire hard disk.

>> ^jonny:

You're gonna look real funny trying to use that computer without a power supply, keyboard, mouse, cables, fans, heat sink(s), software, etc. It is a fact that Macs used to be quite a bit more expensive (and not just because of the name, but because of parts choices), but it's just not true anymore, at least to the extent you are claiming. No doubt you could spec out a roughly equivalent computer and install Linux and whatever other free software you want for probably about 20% less. Part of the premium is the convenience of not having to shop for all the difference parts and put it together yourself (and hope you don't short out your motherboard in the process). I'm fairly sure most PC sellers charge a "premium" for delivering it in one piece with software installed.
Also, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you picked the low end of the Mac Pro line for ease of comparison, but it also happens to be the worst choice by far in terms price/performance.
>> ^jmzero:
Or you could buy good PCs and see the price is pretty much the same.
Lol @budzos. Mac people have always said this, and it has always been funny. They used to have some magic wiggle room because so many parts were different (different processor, especially) - but that's mostly gone now. OK, so here you can get a quad core Mac Pro for $2499. Let's see what those parts it lists are worth:
Processor: $316 (here's the specific model)
Graphics Card: $109 (here's actually a slightly better model)
6GB of RAM: $100 (good RAM for that premium)
1TB hard disk: $100 (decent hard disk for that)
Motherboard: $250 (let's get a nice one)
Case: $250 (let's get a nice one)
Optical drive: $100
So far we're at $1225. Maybe they've got some Apple magic (whoo! Superdrive!) to make up a couple hundred more dollars - but it's going to take a lot to spend another $1275 (ie. more than double). If you prefer a Mac, go ahead and get one - but pretending they're the same price is silly.
To be clear, I don't hate Apple and some of their products are reasonably priced now. A Macbook Air, for example, has been a good deal for a while and is still much nicer than its competitors. But their hardware has historically been way more expensive, and lots of it still has a significant premium attached.



omg - seriously guys?

Lol @ me? I'm a PC user, but not a fanboy either way. I have never used Apple because (in the past few years) I find their marketing obnoxious and I like to tinker with my PC. I do have an iPad and an iPhone.

I was gonna list my PC specs and their costs and then realized what a waste of time that is. Just for one example my case cost $400+, not $250. It's a big giant black hunk of brushed aluminum. It's bad-ass. Never have I looked at an Apple product and thought "bad-ass."


>> ^jmzero:

Or you could buy good PCs and see the price is pretty much the same.

Lol @budzos. Mac people have always said this, and it has always been funny. They used to have some magic wiggle room because so many parts were different (different processor, especially) - but that's mostly gone now. OK, so here you can get a quad core Mac Pro for $2499. Let's see what those parts it lists are worth:
Processor: $316 (here's the specific model)
Graphics Card: $109 (here's actually a slightly better model)
6GB of RAM: $100 (good RAM for that premium)
1TB hard disk: $100 (decent hard disk for that)
Motherboard: $250 (let's get a nice one)
Case: $250 (let's get a nice one)
Optical drive: $100
So far we're at $1225. Maybe they've got some Apple magic (whoo! Superdrive!) to make up a couple hundred more dollars - but it's going to take a lot to spend another $1275 (ie. more than double). If you prefer a Mac, go ahead and get one - but pretending they're the same price is silly.
To be clear, I don't hate Apple and some of their products are reasonably priced now. A Macbook Air, for example, has been a good deal for a while and is still much nicer than its competitors. But their hardware has historically been way more expensive, and lots of it still has a significant premium attached.

>> ^jmzero:

Or you could buy good PCs and see the price is pretty much the same.

Lol @budzos. Mac people have always said this, and it has always been funny. They used to have some magic wiggle room because so many parts were different (different processor, especially) - but that's mostly gone now. OK, so here you can get a quad core Mac Pro for $2499. Let's see what those parts it lists are worth:
Processor: $316 (here's the specific model)
Graphics Card: $109 (here's actually a slightly better model)
6GB of RAM: $100 (good RAM for that premium)
1TB hard disk: $100 (decent hard disk for that)
Motherboard: $250 (let's get a nice one)
Case: $250 (let's get a nice one)
Optical drive: $100
So far we're at $1225. Maybe they've got some Apple magic (whoo! Superdrive!) to make up a couple hundred more dollars - but it's going to take a lot to spend another $1275 (ie. more than double). If you prefer a Mac, go ahead and get one - but pretending they're the same price is silly.
To be clear, I don't hate Apple and some of their products are reasonably priced now. A Macbook Air, for example, has been a good deal for a while and is still much nicer than its competitors. But their hardware has historically been way more expensive, and lots of it still has a significant premium attached.


Oh please - stop it with the DIY PC vs. Mac Pro comparisons, they are just ridiculous.
A HP Z8x0 or a Dell Precision for example - those are the machines you should compare to.
You'll find that they are in the same ballpark.

Price is definitely not something I'd hold against the Mac Pro, that would be stuff like:
- weak expandability (1 PCIe16+2 PCIe4, 4 drive bays, max 64GB RAM),
- lacking features (eg. no SAS or SATA 6G, no USB3.0, weak selection of graphics/GPGPU cards)
- weak support options (no onsite support available at all?! I'm running a business here - do you really expect me to haul my workstation to the Genius Bar when a deadline is imminent?)

You're gonna look real funny trying to use that computer without a power supply, keyboard, mouse, cables, fans, heat sink(s), software, etc. It is a fact that Macs used to be quite a bit more expensive (and not just because of the name, but because of parts choices), but it's just not true anymore, at least to the extent you are claiming. No doubt you could spec out a roughly equivalent computer and install Linux and whatever other free software you want for probably about 20% less. Part of the premium is the convenience of not having to shop for all the difference parts and put it together yourself (and hope you don't short out your motherboard in the process). I'm fairly sure most PC sellers charge a "premium" for delivering it in one piece with software installed.

Also, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you picked the low end of the Mac Pro line for ease of comparison, but it also happens to be the worst choice by far in terms price/performance.
>> ^jmzero:

Or you could buy good PCs and see the price is pretty much the same.

Lol @budzos. Mac people have always said this, and it has always been funny. They used to have some magic wiggle room because so many parts were different (different processor, especially) - but that's mostly gone now. OK, so here you can get a quad core Mac Pro for $2499. Let's see what those parts it lists are worth:
Processor: $316 (here's the specific model)
Graphics Card: $109 (here's actually a slightly better model)
6GB of RAM: $100 (good RAM for that premium)
1TB hard disk: $100 (decent hard disk for that)
Motherboard: $250 (let's get a nice one)
Case: $250 (let's get a nice one)
Optical drive: $100
So far we're at $1225. Maybe they've got some Apple magic (whoo! Superdrive!) to make up a couple hundred more dollars - but it's going to take a lot to spend another $1275 (ie. more than double). If you prefer a Mac, go ahead and get one - but pretending they're the same price is silly.
To be clear, I don't hate Apple and some of their products are reasonably priced now. A Macbook Air, for example, has been a good deal for a while and is still much nicer than its competitors. But their hardware has historically been way more expensive, and lots of it still has a significant premium attached.

Or you could buy good PCs and see the price is pretty much the same.



Lol @budzos. Mac people have always said this, and it has always been funny. They used to have some magic wiggle room because so many parts were different (different processor, especially) - but that's mostly gone now. OK, so here you can get a quad core Mac Pro for $2499. Let's see what those parts it lists are worth:

Processor: $316 (here's the specific model)
Graphics Card: $109 (here's actually a slightly better model)
6GB of RAM: $100 (good RAM for that premium)
1TB hard disk: $100 (decent hard disk for that)
Motherboard: $250 (let's get a nice one)
Case: $250 (let's get a nice one)
Optical drive: $100

So far we're at $1225. Maybe they've got some Apple magic (whoo! Superdrive!) to make up a couple hundred more dollars - but it's going to take a lot to spend another $1275 (ie. more than double). If you prefer a Mac, go ahead and get one - but pretending they're the same price is silly.

To be clear, I don't hate Apple and some of their products are reasonably priced now. A Macbook Air, for example, has been a good deal for a while and is still much nicer than its competitors. But their hardware has historically been way more expensive, and lots of it still has a significant premium attached.

1. Apple's pricing is not that far out of line when you actually build PCs with high end parts including a nice case etc. the perception that they have luxury pricing mostly comes from their competitors being Dell and HP who sell mostly underpowered PCs to ignorant morons who look at the price tag first.

2. Most of the people who tell me I *need* to get an Apple couldn't tell RAM from a hard disk.

3. Apple's cool factor makes me vomit, and you are a marketing victim gobbling down on Satan's cock if you waste your time telling people to switch to Apple.

I installed Windows 98 on a Athlon 64 with IDE hard disk based system for the laugh(!?) and it booted to desktop in 6 seconds, wont encourage me to adopt Win98 though...

There is usually a way to wipe the hard disk before you dispose of the photocopier, but I bet nobody ever does! Then there's the problem of how well the inbuilt disk wipe works... but if nobody runs it in the first place, that point's kinda moot.

>> ^Boise_Lib:

Just put your hard drive between two heavy duty magnets and rotate.
Magnets are fuckn' magic.

Programs exist that can fill a whole Hard Disk with white noise. Prolly takes a while, but if your gonna use magnets you may as well use the write head provided

But how do they work?

/obligatory

>> ^Boise_Lib:

Just put your hard drive between two heavy duty magnets and rotate.
Magnets are fuckn' magic.

I too am a very satisfied T61p user, and would recommend buying one of the newer Thinkpads, despite them being a little more expensive. In addition to being sturdy as hell, Thinkpads have some nice technology such as hard disk protection, which stops the hard disk temporarily in case of heavy jostling to prevent damage. And I have yet to try a better laptop keyboard.

>> ^direpickle:

>> ^deathcow:
Yep so data has about 45 2 TB hard disks in him.

He actually has about 45 thousand 2 TB had disks in him.


Thanks for the correction. Google says:
800 quadrillion bits = 90 949.4702 terabytes

>> ^deathcow:

Yep so data has about 45 2 TB hard disks in him.


He actually has about 45 thousand 2 TB had disks in him.