dry, boring, and flat-out hard to read (e.g. three names for every individual, all sounding so similar as to be virtually impossible to differentiate)

Reading is all in the eye of the beholder, so I won't say you're WRONG but I will say you are looking at them with an incorrect expectation (were then, and still are).

DRY & BORING: Tolkien wrote the book with a 'high' style. He makes no apologies for it. He did not write the novel in such a way as to please the varying sensibilities of people. Some people today want 'grit', others want speed, or breathless action, or any one a hundred different tastes. If you read the books and want those other things, then your experience will be lacking.

HARD TO READ: Tolkien was a professor of philology, and wrote accordingly. Like Wells, Lewis, and others of his stripe - he did not pull his linguistic punches (much). As far as the names are concerned, you just have to deal with that because he was using the same time-honored literary device as was used in Beowulf where the recitation of a person's many names/titles is done with a reverence akin to reciting one's lineage and history. He doesn't do it to be redundant or repetitive. He does it for a reason - to tell you the person's story.

I've had this conversation with many. Not everyone likes Tolkien, and that's fine. But I dispute the statement that his work was boring, hard to read, or dry. JRR was a craftsman of the language the like of which simply does not exist today. That isn't idle brag. He had a skillset that has been lost to us. No one exists that can do what he did. Many try to ape his style, but they come off as pale shadows. And not only was he a master of the language in a technical sense, but he was also highly skilled at writing as well. You only get that combination once in a thousand years.

When you read - you have to look at the beauty of the language, the power of the words, and the light and depth of the setting & themes. There are passages and words in LOTR that never fail to send chills through me from top to bottom. I have not found any modern writer who comes close to that. Yes, I've read many who told excellent stories, or could write great characters, or who could generate good atmosphere, or good settings, et al. But none have used language so powerfully or with such light in such a way as to move the soul. LOTR is a work in which there is a true 'aura' beyond the typical book trance from other works. Again, if you go in looking for something else then, brother, you're just looking at it the wrong way.

>> ^ReverendTed:

I could only identify a fraction...Green Mile. Indiana Jones. Mission Impossible. True Grit. Eternal Sunshine. The Birds. Kick Ass. War of the Worlds. Carrie. Tron Legacy. I Robot. Dark City. Apocalypto. Plus Kill Bill and Rocky, I think.


... And Psycho, don't forget Psycho. Also 30 Days of Night.

I could only identify a fraction...Green Mile. Indiana Jones. Mission Impossible. True Grit. Eternal Sunshine. The Birds. Kick Ass. War of the Worlds. Carrie. Tron Legacy. I Robot. Dark City. Apocalypto. Plus Kill Bill and Rocky, I think.

Tags for this video have been changed from 'john wayne, rooster cogburn, true grit, the duke, 60s, 1968' to 'john wayne, rooster cogburn, true grit, robert duvall, the duke, 60s, 1968' - edited by enoch

I do, sweetpea, I do feel strongly. Sometimes I just stay away from things like this for my own mental health. Grit my teeth and wait for it to pass.

It is just discouraging to see stuff like this capture so many votes and head for Number One. That comic that hpqp posted was right on -- all that self congratulation. I shudder.

Besides, there are plenty of great people much more articulate than me already here. I am enjoying them enormously!


>> ^draak13:

@StimulusMax, you do make an interesting point; we can't jump to equality because the people on top don't get on board with it.
@bareboards2, I'm surprised you didn't contribute more to the conversation. I thought this would be something you felt strongly about!

I was deliberately vague in my Sift Talk opening, because I didn't want to get into an argument about specifics. I wanted to convey an idea, not argue back and forth. (By the way, my actual questions were never answered, not that I really expected them to be.)

There has been a lot of speculation on what pushed me over the edge into starting a Sift Talk, after 5 years of reading comments here. I know the culture. I have grown calloused, burlapped undie'd up, to quote dag. I even, after some initial horror, have grown to understand the nature of "sexist" comments, a little bit. They don't bother me as much as they used to. I see them, I sigh, I move on, sometimes I even enjoy them. So why now? What happened that pushed me over the edge?

I couldn't have answered coherently a couple of days ago. I think I can now.

It actually started two months ago. @Morganth posted a great video, part of a series.

http://videosift.com/video/Killing-Us-Softly-vertising-s-Image-of-Women

There were some great, thoughtful responses to this video. There were also some increasingly ugly, misogynist, hateful, ignorant comments. Each new ugly comment spawned another. I kept hoping it would drop into the archives, but instead, it sifted to the Top 15, with over 100 votes -- clearly not because of the content of the video, but because of the feeding frenzy of ugly comments, specifically targeted towards women. That video's comment thread could be used as a case study of unconscious -- and perhaps conscious -- male anger and hatred towards women. It could also be used to show the deep ignorance of men about what it means to be a woman. (Before you jump on me, believe me I know that most women are ignorant of the pressures put on men. But this isn't a contest about who has been hurt worst by cultural stereotypes and expectations, who is the bigger victim. I have been saying since 1974 that men need to fight against their oppression just as women had begun to.)

I also thought -- man, the Sift is being to change, who are all these people, this isn't the Sift I know and love. This is qualitatively different than the normal razzing that goes on here.

I didn't say anything. I just gritted my teeth and waited for it to go away. It eventually did.

Then a couple of days ago, eric -- who is one of my favorite people on the Sift, kind, observant, generous, a true feminist/humanist -- posted a link to what would become the C Punch vid in the sift lounge and said -- hey, somebody post this, this cracks me up. (He does that all the time -- shares links to vids. I have gotten several Top 15 vids and I think even one #1 -- eric is generous, remember?)

I watched it. I saw -- as I have said elsewhere -- what everyone else saw -- a woman trying to fit into an existing clique, wanting to belong, who allowed herself to be hit in accordance with the "rules" of the group. I have opinions about the idiocy of a pack of males and what their senses of humor devolve to, but I didn't think she was any more pressured than any man would have felt in the same group.

I also knew -- suspected -- feared -- that the troll crowd that showed up for the advertising vid would come out in force. That something really ugly would be unleashed. I didn't think that men who clearly have a problem with women (the new crowd from the advertising vid) would understand what was happening in the vid. That all they would see was a woman being hit in the genitals, and the feeding frenzy would begin.

I tried to stop the posting of the vid. Out of fear of what might happen.

And then it didn't. Because spoco2 spoke up quickly, became the human sacrifice, and the conversation got heated, intricate and wordy. It didn't devolve -- well, it devolved, but it devolved as most heated discussions do here. I was fine with that.

What I wasn't fine with, was the title. The title did not match the video. The title reflected (sorry gwiz, I know the word has different connotations in Denmark) my worst misogynist nightmare. I am not going to explain the nuances of why that is so -- I tried in the sift lounge after the fact, and I realized that if you aren't a woman, it is too complicated to communicate in this medium.

But the description of the vid was worse -- REALLY had nothing to do with the video, only had to do with the systemic, cultural violence towards women (sorry, gwiz, I know for you it was a joke. It wasn't for me.)

There are also generational differences, and experience differences, and not every woman would react the same way I did. So I didn't take any positive action to fix my distress -- it isn't up to me to enforce my views onto others.

But then it got promoted. By eric, who I adore, who I knew liked the vid (because it showed a woman acting as stupid as a man, which is funny theoretically). To the front page. With THAT title. And then it got promoted again, by someone who linked to a vid that was clearly domestic violence and was exactly the kind of comment that I feared beforehand (sorry Lasurus, I have no idea of you personally, but guy, please know -- that was Not. Cool.)

Now I am really beginning to feel uncomfortable. Promoted to the front page. Having to look at that title every time I came to the Sift (which is too much, but that is my particular brand of OCD.) But still I don't do anything, because hey, it is just my opinion. I'll wait for it to slide down into the archives.

But it couldn't be left to die away. A vid that reduced a woman to her naked torso in the thumbnail was promoted twice and qualitied. To the front page. Where I can't avoid it. It felt like there was an (unconscious) assault against women would never end, and that what I felt during the advertising comment stream was now spilling out onto the front page of the Sift. And yes, I know it was all meant as a joke, but it was increasingly not funny, it was increasingly uncomfortable to be a woman here.

Someone helped me find a solution to that problem -- I sent the vid to discuss and asked that the thumbnail be changed. Having a blatant bewb shot stuck at the top of the page wasn't good for the Sift, with its millions of visitors. That was clear to me and I knew that changing the thumbnail was a reasonable action, not just my personal queasiness.

But that is when I broke. When I got pushed over the edge. The advertising video making Top 15 with its horrendous comment stream, C Punch as the (inaccurate) title on a promoted vid, and then the trolling of pushing a thumbnail to the front page -- it was a combination of events that proved too much for me.

I needed to speak up. I did not want to stay silent anymore. I needed to break the polite silence.

But even then -- all I said was I didn't like it. And that I don't understand this need to be provoking and shocking -- one of my first interactions with blankfist was to send him a PM, asking him to explain to me what the thrill of trolling is. (He never answered me. But it was an honest question.)

You would have thought that I took an axe to the genitals of every man on the sift. For saying I didn't like it.

I find that amusing in the extreme. Netrunner figured it out. There is the most vicious trolling and personal attacks on the Sift ALL THE TIME. But a reasonable person speaks up and says "I don't like that?" WTF!

Look at the number of comments here. Just who are the sensitive, thin-skinned ones? And if you have the courage to ask yourself -- just how much of your anger is rooted in the cultural pressures you have been subjected to your whole life? (That is a college course or five years of therapy -- I'm not going to unpack that sentence for you.)

Women have been told to shut up and be nice for centuries. I have stayed silent for years here (not perfectly silent, I'm sure you can find examples proving that statement wrong -- but believe me, I have been silent far far far FAR more than I have said things.)

And now I spoke up. Said my piece. Learned some things about myself, and how I might use different tactics in the future to deal with things that disturb me, met some really cool new folks, and I have fallen in love with the Sift all over again.

I was commiserating with spoco earlier about how he had to keep repeating his original point because nobody heard him.

Let me say this again.

I HAVE NO TROUBLE WITH THE CONTENT OF THE C PUNCH VIDEO.

I never had any trouble with the content of the C Punch video.

I do not know how else to say it. Except. I have no trouble with the content of that video.

Go back and read my words, if you doubt me. I never ever had a problem with that video. It is everything anybody has said about it -- a woman buying into stupid frat boy antics and trying to be part of the gang.

I feared that the video would unleash an ugly comment stream -- oh look, it did. Thanks, joedirt. Nice to meet you. And thanks for proving my point. And after it was posted, I had a problem with the title. And still I didn't say much -- I didn't have to, because the great and glorious @spoco2 had something to say.

I wrote this post after the promoting and qualitying of a vid onto the front page with a thumbnail of an anonymous naked woman. A bewb shot. It was the last straw after gritting my teeth with that C Punch TITLE promoted onto the front page the day before.

Enough was enough. I didn't like it.

Let me please direct your attention to the title of this Sift Post.

I am not enjoying the trolling on the Sift.

None of you had to come here. None of you had to comment. I am glad that you all did. Including joedirt (who doesn't love to be proved right? Who doesn't love to say I told you so? Especially a woman!)

And I am honored that apparently choggie showed up. He was gone before I started participating here. Hi Choggie!

Five years I have been coming to this site. Five years I have read all manner of sexist hogwash with barely a peep.

But the last two days... the last two days, something different was up. Something was happening that was qualitatively different. I couldn't remain silent anymore.

I really appreciate the PMs I have gotten. I really appreciate everyone who spoke up here today, especially @krelokk, who doesn't normally post. And @blankfist, you lovely man, I see you behind the trolling.

I am just rambling now. Sorry. I have spent way too much time on this today.

I love the Sift.

>> ^blankfist:

. Of all the things to get ireful about, a woman voluntarily exercising her sameness with men isn't one.

In reply to this comment by spoco2:
Awesome comment.


That is all.

In reply to this comment by dystopianfuturetoday:
Sexism is tolerated in our culture in a way that racism against African Americans is not. People who would never dream of saying 'nigger' in public have no problem saying bitch or cunt or raghead or fag. It's not because these people are bad, but because these people have been taught by society that such things can be said without fear of judgement or reprisal.

When these people do receive judgement and reprisal, they become highly defensive, because in their own minds, they aren't treating women with prejudice, they are playing by the rules sanctioned by the larger society. It's far easier for them to believe that you are uppity, oversensitive and politically correct than for them to believe they might have prejudice in their heart, but the fact that they are so vigilant in their response to you suggests to me that on some subconscious level, they suspect you are correct.

I want to reiterate what berticus said, in that this room features a bunch of white males trying to lecture a female on what does and does not constitute sexism. For my fellow dudes in this category, might I suggest you shut the fuck up and listen. bareboards isn't sharing a political or religious opinion here, she is expressing her genuine reaction to prejudice against her gender. It's not an opinion, it's a lesson.

Prejudice is prejudice, whether it is culturally acceptable or not. Ask a 'fag' or a 'bitch' or a 'raghead' if you want a broader perspective on what it feels like to be on the receiving end culturally sanctioned prejudice.

I agree that there is little you can do to change culture specific prejudice, but expressing yourself in a sift talk is a good thing. If people want to ridicule you for it, then fuck them. Doing the right thing is doing the right thing, even if you have no chance in hell at making a difference. In fact, I find it noble when someone does the right thing in spite of futility.

*quality for your true grit

Awesome comment.


That is all.

In reply to this comment by dystopianfuturetoday:
Sexism is tolerated in our culture in a way that racism against African Americans is not. People who would never dream of saying 'nigger' in public have no problem saying bitch or cunt or raghead or fag. It's not because these people are bad, but because these people have been taught by society that such things can be said without fear of judgement or reprisal.

When these people do receive judgement and reprisal, they become highly defensive, because in their own minds, they aren't treating women with prejudice, they are playing by the rules sanctioned by the larger society. It's far easier for them to believe that you are uppity, oversensitive and politically correct than for them to believe they might have prejudice in their heart, but the fact that they are so vigilant in their response to you suggests to me that on some subconscious level, they suspect you are correct.

I want to reiterate what berticus said, in that this room features a bunch of white males trying to lecture a female on what does and does not constitute sexism. For my fellow dudes in this category, might I suggest you shut the fuck up and listen. bareboards isn't sharing a political or religious opinion here, she is expressing her genuine reaction to prejudice against her gender. It's not an opinion, it's a lesson.

Prejudice is prejudice, whether it is culturally acceptable or not. Ask a 'fag' or a 'bitch' or a 'raghead' if you want a broader perspective on what it feels like to be on the receiving end culturally sanctioned prejudice.

I agree that there is little you can do to change culture specific prejudice, but expressing yourself in a sift talk is a good thing. If people want to ridicule you for it, then fuck them. Doing the right thing is doing the right thing, even if you have no chance in hell at making a difference. In fact, I find it noble when someone does the right thing in spite of futility.

*quality for your true grit

It's nice to see you take the highroad when there's no political price to pay. Wish you would've done so when your party rejoiced in an assassination and the complete skirting of due process and human rights.

In reply to this comment by dystopianfuturetoday:
Sexism is tolerated in our culture in a way that racism against African Americans is not. People who would never dream of saying 'nigger' in public have no problem saying bitch or cunt or raghead or fag. It's not because these people are bad, but because these people have been taught by society that such things can be said without fear of judgement or reprisal.

When these people do receive judgement and reprisal, they become highly defensive, because in their own minds, they aren't treating women with prejudice, they are playing by the rules sanctioned by the larger society. It's far easier for them to believe that you are uppity, oversensitive and politically correct than for them to believe they might have prejudice in their heart, but the fact that they are so vigilant in their response to you suggests to me that on some subconscious level, they suspect you are correct.

I want to reiterate what berticus said, in that this room features a bunch of white males trying to lecture a female on what does and does not constitute sexism. For my fellow dudes in this category, might I suggest you shut the fuck up and listen. bareboards isn't sharing a political or religious opinion here, she is expressing her genuine reaction to prejudice against her gender. It's not an opinion, it's a lesson.

Prejudice is prejudice, whether it is culturally acceptable or not. Ask a 'fag' or a 'bitch' or a 'raghead' if you want a broader perspective on what it feels like to be on the receiving end culturally sanctioned prejudice.

I agree that there is little you can do to change culture specific prejudice, but expressing yourself in a sift talk is a good thing. If people want to ridicule you for it, then fuck them. Doing the right thing is doing the right thing, even if you have no chance in hell at making a difference. In fact, I find it noble when someone does the right thing in spite of futility.

*quality for your true grit

Sexism is tolerated in our culture in a way that racism against African Americans is not. People who would never dream of saying 'nigger' in public have no problem saying bitch or cunt or raghead or fag. It's not because these people are bad, but because these people have been taught by society that such things can be said without fear of judgement or reprisal.

When these people do receive judgement and reprisal, they become highly defensive, because in their own minds, they aren't treating women with prejudice, they are playing by the rules sanctioned by the larger society. It's far easier for them to believe that you are uppity, oversensitive and politically correct than for them to believe they might have prejudice in their heart, but the fact that they are so vigilant in their response to you suggests to me that on some subconscious level, they suspect you are correct.

I want to reiterate what berticus said, in that this room features a bunch of white males trying to lecture a female on what does and does not constitute sexism. For my fellow dudes in this category, might I suggest you shut the fuck up and listen. bareboards isn't sharing a political or religious opinion here, she is expressing her genuine reaction to prejudice against her gender. It's not an opinion, it's a lesson.

Prejudice is prejudice, whether it is culturally acceptable or not. Ask a 'fag' or a 'bitch' or a 'raghead' if you want a broader perspective on what it feels like to be on the receiving end culturally sanctioned prejudice.

I agree that there is little you can do to change culture specific prejudice, but expressing yourself in a sift talk is a good thing. If people want to ridicule you for it, then fuck them. Doing the right thing is doing the right thing, even if you have no chance in hell at making a difference. In fact, I find it noble when someone does the right thing in spite of futility.

*quality for your true grit

How would this look without all the lense flare and grit / water on the "camera"?
Next...

>> ^boblobblaw:

Please direct us to a few of those movies with quality fights scenes in your opnion. Thank you in advance...>> ^swedishfriend:
Funny, the fight scenes are some of the worst out there. reminds me of the super slow exaggerated stunt fighting from the 80's. I liked Serenity in spite of the fight scenes not because of them. There have been so many films with good fight scenes at any budget level that I am amazed how once in a while films still get made with such lame feeling action. Being flexible and acrobatic is not as important as having an intelligent use of the forces you throw around to at least look like you are putting some force into each hit VS I am touching you gently now and then you fly backwards as if a much greater force hit you. The dissonance between cause and effect is so great that it looses any impact.



Three off the top of my head:

Luke and Vader's fight at the end of Empire Strikes back, particularly the final scene on the gantry.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-DeI3ohVbY
It's inelegant, rough and psychological; Vader is toying with Luke, who is clearly inferior, in an attempt to break his will. Way better than any of the fancy choreographed rubbish fights of the prequels.

Total Recall, the fight with Quaid and his mate from the quarry, along with his goons.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KtHhIePpZg
For an action movie it does well, not too cheesy (though they sorta come at him one at a time, I guess) and he just kills them quickly any way he can. It establishes that the character possibly has latent abilities he didn't know about, as even he is surprised/shocked.

And although I generally view Kung-Fu as largely aesthetic, at least the way films depict it, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon's style nicely blended in a mythical aspect to their abilities (gliding across roofs and treetops).
For example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OxQ-2gR1DU

I agree with @swedishfriend, that even if it's all pure fantasy, if it doesn't *look* like someone actually delivered any force with their fancy legwork, then it doesn't hold water for me. It's fine to film it that way if they want to, but it's just that there have been other fantasy films that have depicted combat better. Kung-Fu seems to be a sort of crutch that Hollywood leans on for making their fight scenes look more genuine. But I just really wonder how well all that twisting of arms and balancing on toes would really stand up against a kick-boxer, or other more practical style.

Ohh, also the needless twirling of swords... How I grit my teeth when I see that.

Thanks for posting this. When I get enough stars, I can do my own posting from this ...aargh!!! .... sites.

Gritting my teeth is the least of my reaction to this topic.

I'm curious -- how did it come about that you ended up posting this? Since netrunner turned me down? Just idle curiosity....

In reply to this comment by gwiz665:
http://videosift.com/video/Fox-News-Holy-shit-death-panels-are-back
gotcha covered. Damn I'm gritting my teeth after watching it.
In reply to this comment by bareboards2:
http://video.foxnews.com/v/4475784/return-of-death-panels

Here's a link to the site, so you can get your own embed code....

If you want.

This was definitely a year of shit movies. Here's my list, although there are quite a few critically acclaimed movies that I've yet to see.

Good
-True Grit
-Social Network
-Kick Ass
-Get Low
-Inception
-Toy Story
-Yeardly

Bad
-Harry Potter 7.0
-Grown Ups
-Tron 2
-Nightmare on Elm Street
-Scott Pilgrim

Ugly
-Last Airbender
-Alice in Wonderland
-Burlesque