>> ^BillOreilly:
>> ^Raverman:
The poor state of the American economy is a given.
- Massive banks failing,
- Huge numbers of homes foreclosing - NATIONWIDE.
- The Stock exchange in free fall.
- So many trillions of overseas debt with countries like China, they basically own America.
- Not to mention the massive new cost from Hurricane Ike and the raising price of oil again due to the closed pipelines.
BillOReilly - to distract the conversation with a completely irrelevant comment about Michigan being run by a democrat? To try to divert the topic as my state vs. your state?
Shame on you. Thats an insult to the people who are truely suffering across america.
Rebulicans go on and on about patriotism and loving their country...
But don't give a damn about their countrymen, just their own pockets and politics.

Massive banks failing are due to corporate greed. Foreclosing homes are due to morons living beyond their means with variable-rate loans, which are now catching up with them. Hurricane Ike is a natural disaster. None of these issues are the fault of "Republicans who don't care about their countrymen."
And liberals care more about their fellow man than conservatives, I'm sure.


BillO, you may be right about why those things are failing, but as a result of their failures and the impact that will have and more importantly, the cause of those failures, for McCain to suggest that the fundamentals are strong, really does suggest he's out of touch with reailty.

Analysts can be nobs for their fortune telling, but they and economists like to talk up the market to keep mum and dad thinking that investing in the stock market is a good thing. I don't think you'd find one of them suggesting that the fundamentals of the US economy are strong...

>> ^Raverman:
The poor state of the American economy is a given.
- Massive banks failing,
- Huge numbers of homes foreclosing - NATIONWIDE.
- The Stock exchange in free fall.
- So many trillions of overseas debt with countries like China, they basically own America.
- Not to mention the massive new cost from Hurricane Ike and the raising price of oil again due to the closed pipelines.
BillOReilly - to distract the conversation with a completely irrelevant comment about Michigan being run by a democrat? To try to divert the topic as my state vs. your state?
Shame on you. Thats an insult to the people who are truely suffering across america.
Rebulicans go on and on about patriotism and loving their country...
But don't give a damn about their countrymen, just their own pockets and politics.


Massive banks failing are due to corporate greed. Foreclosing homes are due to morons living beyond their means with variable-rate loans, which are now catching up with them. Hurricane Ike is a natural disaster. None of these issues are the fault of "Republicans who don't care about their countrymen."

And liberals care more about their fellow man than conservatives, I'm sure.

The poor state of the American economy is a given.
- Massive banks failing,
- Huge numbers of homes foreclosing - NATIONWIDE.
- The Stock exchange in free fall.
- So many trillions of overseas debt with countries like China, they basically own America.
- Not to mention the massive new cost from Hurricane Ike and the raising price of oil again due to the closed pipelines.

BillOReilly - to distract the conversation with a completely irrelevant comment about Michigan being run by a democrat? To try to divert the topic as my state vs. your state?

Shame on you. Thats an insult to the people who are truely suffering across america.
Rebulicans go on and on about patriotism and loving their country...
But don't give a damn about their countrymen, just their own pockets and politics.

/\ Like he said.

Watch the first 15 seconds, then skip to about 2.50 and watch from there. Middle bit is just a mess, sounds like a drum kit free falling in a confined space with a large amount of drum sticks clattering around.

The speed that he hits one of those drums with 1 hand.....holy shit.

Pardon my lack of technical jargon.. My knowledge of drums is that i can play expert level on rock band, and the only thing i know is that i can't achieve the speed with two hands that he does with one! I can't even manage the main drum roll of "run to the hills" with both hands Thus ends my knowledge of drums!

>> ^NetRunner:
Winged aircraft can definitely dive fast enough to make you feel weightless (free fall), though you'll want a good pilot if you're going to do it.

The thing that confused me is that this isn't zero-g, merely reduced g's, and the forces still acting on the people relative to the plane seemed to be directed straight towards the floor, since they can both stand perpendicular to the floor and jump on the spot. Where as I thought in a steep dive if they jumped they would float towards the tail of the plane, but I must be thinking about the forces all wrong.

>> ^Ghostly:
Can anyone tell me what aircraft this is? Or anything else about what's going on here. The floor looks pretty level and I wouldn't have thought a winged aircraft could accelerate downward that fast unless it was in real trouble or steeply angled nose down. (I'm not calling fake I just want to know more).


I don't know about the type of aircraft, but I'd imagine it's a pretty ordinary military cargo plane of some sort. Winged aircraft can definitely dive fast enough to make you feel weightless (free fall), though you'll want a good pilot if you're going to do it.

In this case, they're making a rapid descent to land in Baghdad. I didn't realize they did them so steep they'd get the free-fall effect, but it makes sense.

NASA sports a plane explicitly for this purpose. Stephen Hawking even tried it.

*spacy

Thanks for your comment post. Your opinion is welcomed here.

In reply to this comment by dbalsdon:
SDGundamX:
You should try debating with headless chickens. It would be a LOT easier then trying to debate with truthers.

"I don't know why people place such great emphasis on what happened on the day rather on how it was allowed to happen given the massive influx of covert intelligence saying that an attack was imminent coming from various sources in Europe."

Exactly what intelligence did they receive? "An attack is going to happen soon", or "4 planes are going to be hijacked and crashed into buildings on 9/11"

"But that's no big deal, because the NIST report is also based mostly on conjecture and witness testimony, with little supporting photographic evidence."

This, coming from someone who claims: "Massive fires raging all day, with nothing to substantiate that." Yep. Except for all the firefighters and people who were actually there, and the photos showing smoke coming from the building.

Hang on. I thought NYC officials already stated publically that WTC7 was intentionally pulled down when it was clear that it couldn't be saved with a reasonable amount of work?

Not WTC7. Some buildings were purposefully demolished/pulled down AFTER 9/11, when "it was clear... blah". Or are you referring to Silverstein's 'pull it' phrase, in which, based on what firefighters on the ground were reporting back to him, he told them to abandon WTC7 because it wasn't safe.

"You are willing to accept the official story where so many are not, simply because they see a 47 story building plummet to the ground at near free-fall speed"

Many? Ha!! Freefall?? Oh, the claim that it collapsed in 9.7(or something like that) seconds. WRONG!! The building took a LOT longer then 9.7 seconds to collapse. First(and the bit that is ALWAYS ignored by truthers) is that the north(east/west) section of wtc7 collapsed about 5 to 10 seconds BEFORE the main collapse started. So, when the main part collapsed, there was already a large part of the building already gone.

Sorry for butting in, but just noticed that the first post here was off me being quoted.

"I don't know why people place such great emphasis on what happened on the day rather on how it was allowed to happen given the massive influx of covert intelligence saying that an attack was imminent coming from various sources in Europe."

Exactly what intelligence did they receive? "An attack is going to happen soon", or "4 planes are going to be hijacked and crashed into buildings on 9/11"

"But that's no big deal, because the NIST report is also based mostly on conjecture and witness testimony, with little supporting photographic evidence."

This, coming from someone who claims: "Massive fires raging all day, with nothing to substantiate that." Yep. Except for all the firefighters and people who were actually there, and the photos showing smoke coming from the building.

Hang on. I thought NYC officials already stated publically that WTC7 was intentionally pulled down when it was clear that it couldn't be saved with a reasonable amount of work?

Not WTC7. Some buildings were purposefully demolished/pulled down AFTER 9/11, when "it was clear... blah". Or are you referring to Silverstein's 'pull it' phrase, in which, based on what firefighters on the ground were reporting back to him, he told them to abandon WTC7 because it wasn't safe.

"You are willing to accept the official story where so many are not, simply because they see a 47 story building plummet to the ground at near free-fall speed"

Many? Ha!! Freefall?? Oh, the claim that it collapsed in 9.7(or something like that) seconds. WRONG!! The building took a LOT longer then 9.7 seconds to collapse. First(and the bit that is ALWAYS ignored by truthers) is that the north(east/west) section of wtc7 collapsed about 5 to 10 seconds BEFORE the main collapse started. So, when the main part collapsed, there was already a large part of the building already gone.

Sorry for butting in, but just noticed that the first post here was off me being quoted.

Oh, Gundam, no need to give us your exasperated sigh. I know full well I have nothing to back up my intuition, I know that there is no evidence to prove my assertions. I know that you are convinced by the NIST report. I entered into this discussion knowing full well that I couldn't back it up and would get my ass handed to me. That's fine. It must be frustrating for you to carry the burden of all this truth and evidence and see that you are close to the only one to believe it. Previous videos that claim conspiracy are routinely voted to the front page with relatively little dissent. You are willing to accept the official story where so many are not, simply because they see a 47 story building plummet to the ground at near free-fall speed, without so much as a hiccup. As was quoted in the previous posts "what are you gonna believe, the truth or your lying eyes".

Thanks to Mink and Farhad for putting the horse before the cart. This is "chasing ghosts".

you made my day, thanks!

In reply to this comment by winkler1:
"When you add sweat to talent, you get magic."
Awesome comment man. I believe the interest/intrinsic motivation is key. For a literal example of what you're saying, look a Penn and Teller or any magician Thousands of hours of practice...

In reply to this comment by oxdottir:
The longer I teach, the less I'm sure I even believe in any single thing that could be called intelligence. I had a graduate student once who seemed incredibly slow. For a bit I was torn with guilt about how I was going to gently steer him into a field more suited to his talents. He just seemed to take a really long time to get any new concept. Then I started noticing that when he *did* get the concept, he *really* got it. And his approach was new, different, and creative. He did new things, and he did much more profound things than the people who had "gotten" the concepts quickly.

I'm much more impressed by persistence, interest, and joy in the material than I am in any abstract thing called intelligence. Not that there isn't such a thing as native talent, but for all but the highest levels, you can make up for talent with plain old sweat. When you add sweat to talent, you get magic.

"When you add sweat to talent, you get magic."
Awesome comment man. I believe the interest/intrinsic motivation is key. For a literal example of what you're saying, look a Penn and Teller or any magician Thousands of hours of practice...

In reply to this comment by oxdottir:
The longer I teach, the less I'm sure I even believe in any single thing that could be called intelligence. I had a graduate student once who seemed incredibly slow. For a bit I was torn with guilt about how I was going to gently steer him into a field more suited to his talents. He just seemed to take a really long time to get any new concept. Then I started noticing that when he *did* get the concept, he *really* got it. And his approach was new, different, and creative. He did new things, and he did much more profound things than the people who had "gotten" the concepts quickly.

I'm much more impressed by persistence, interest, and joy in the material than I am in any abstract thing called intelligence. Not that there isn't such a thing as native talent, but for all but the highest levels, you can make up for talent with plain old sweat. When you add sweat to talent, you get magic.

Tags for this video have been changed from 'time free fall drugs rats numbers near death adrenaline' to 'time, free fall, drugs, rats, numbers, near death, adrenaline' - edited by jonny

what else are you gonna do at 14,000 feet? This guy's apparently bored with free-fall, wanted something else to do!

"Sub 10 second collapse claims are the easiest of all the silly 911 myth's to debunk."

I think the quote was "near free fall speed", not free fall speed. Either way, even the 9/11 commission report shows the speeds to be near free fall speed instead of the misleading 15 seconds or 12 second from that video posted above by TheSofaKing (which seems to be timed incorrectly - watch the youTube clock). I will agree, however, the facts get miscommunicated as "free fall speed", which is false. It's "near free fall speed." The evidence isn't great, but it's at least worth a reinvestigation no matter how much you disagree with the contrary theories of 9/11, no? *save

Mink, I'd say that your description is essentially correct. I wish that I could post Michio Kaku's 'Time' documentary series here, because they dedicated a whole show to your question. They repeated the free fall experiment with even better methodology. The subjects viewed a series of random numbers as they fell, and it turned out that their response time for recognizing the numbers was much better than when they were on the ground (about 1.5x quicker on average from what I remember.) [ < My memory failed me, this isn't correct, see comment below.]

What determines our individual 'clock speed' is an open question as far as I know. We do know where our '24hr clock' is located though, it's called the .