In the current situation, "structural reforms" is used to subsume two entirely different sets of measures.

The first is meant to remove what you previously mentioned: corruption in all the shapes and forms it takes in Greece, from a (intentionally) broken tax system formed over decades of nepotism to a bankrupt national media in the hands of oligarchs. The institutions of the Greek state are precisely what you expect when a country has been run by four families (Papandreou, Samaras, Mitsotakis, Karamanlis) for basically five decades.

This kind of structural reform is part of Syriza's program. Like you said, it'll be hard work and they might very well fail. They'll have only weeks, maybe a few months to undo significant parts of what has grown over half a century. It's not fair, but that's what it is.

The second kind of "structural reform" is meant to increase competitiveness, generally speaking, and a reduction of the public sector. In case of Greece, this included the slashing of wages, pensions, benefits, public employment. The economic and social results are part of just about every article these days, so I won't mention them again. A Great Depression, as predicted.

That's the sort of "structural reforms" Syriza wants to undo. And it's the sort that is expected of Spain, Italy and France as well, which, if done, would probably throw the entire continent into a Great Depression.

I'd go so far as to call any demand to increase competitiveness to German levels madness. Germany gained its competitiveness by 15 years of beggar-thy-neighbour economics, undercutting the agreed upon target of ~2% inflation (read: 2% growth of unit labour costs) the entire time. France played by the rules, was on target the entire time, and is now expected to suffer for it. Only Greece was significantly above target, and are now slightly below target. That's only halfway, yet already more than any democratic country can take.

They could have spread the adjustment out over 20 years, with Germany running above average ULC growth, but decided to throw Greece (and to a lesser degree Spain) off a cliff instead.


So where are we now? Debt rose, GDP crashed, debt as percentage of GDP skyrocketed. That's a fail. Social situation is miserable, health care system basically collapsed, reducing Greece to North African standards. That's a fail.

Those are not reforms to allow Greece to function independently. Those are reforms to throw the Greek population into misery, with ever increasing likeliness of radical solutions (eg Golden Dawn, who are eagerly hoping for a failure of Syriza).

So yes, almost every nation in Europe needs reforms of one sort or another. But using austerity as a rod to beat discipline into supposedly sovereign nations is just about the shortest way imaginable to blow up the Eurozone. Inflicting this amount of pain on people against their will does not work in democratic countries, and the rise of Syriza, Podemos, Sinn Féin, the SNP and the Greens as well as the surge of popularity for Front National and Golden Dawn are clear indicators that the current form of politics cannot be sustained.

Force austerity on France and Le Pen wins the election.

Meaningful reforms that are to increase Europe's "prosperity" would have the support of the people. And reforms are definatly needed, given that the Eurozone is in its fifth year of stagnation, with many countries suffering from both a recession and deflation. A European Union without increasing prosperity for the masses will not last long, I'm sure of it. And a European Union that intentionally causes Great Depressions wouldn't be worth having anyway.

Yet after everything is said and done, I believe you are still absolutely correct in saying that the pro-austerity states won't blink.

Which is what makes it interesting, really. Greece might be able to take a default. They run a primary surplus and most (90%+) of the funds went to foreign banks, the ECB and the IMF anyway, or were used to stabilize the banking system. The people got bugger all. But the Greek banking system would collapse without access to the European system.

Which raises the question: would the pro-austerity states risk a collapse of the Greek banking system and everything it entails? Spanish banks would follow in a heartbeat.

As for the morality of it (they elected those governments, they deserved it): I don't believe in collective punishment, especially not the kind that cripples an entire generation, which is what years of 50+% youth unemployment and a failing educational system does.

My own country, Germany, in particular gets no sympathy from me in this case. Parts of our system were intentionally reformed to channel funds into the market, knowing full well that there was nowhere near enough demand for credit to soak up the surplus savings, nowhere near enough reliable debtors to generate a reasonable return of investment without generating bubbles, be it real estate or financial. They were looking for debtors, and if all it took was turning a blind eye to the painfully obvious longterm problems it would create in Southern Europe, they were more than eager to play along.

Next time some asshole Right Winger whines "WHY DO WE NEED A HEALTH PLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN?", I'm going to show him this abortion of the food industry and point out, "BECAUSE WE EAT SHIT LIKE THIS, YOU SQUARED-HEADED, IN-BRED, SINGLE-DIGIT-IQ'D PRODUCTION OF A FAILING EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM IN A DECAYING EMPIRE POPULATED BY DOLTS AND ASSHOLES JUST LIKE -YOU-."

Then it's right to the roof with the rifle, a bag of crank and a bottle of Yukon Jack -- OMFG H4X AND BREAKING NEWS!

>> ^iloseatlife:
It's trendy right now to "dislike" America and Religion. At one time maybe it was independent thought,

Oh, really, we're just doing it to be trendy?

Ok, here are some reasons:

USA: I think what most of us can agree on is that we don't dislike the USA as such, just what the current government is doing, and the voting majority who brought the same moron back into power a second time. With some of the populous actually getting behind bullcrap like 'Freedom Fries' when the French refused to join in on the lie of a war that was/is Iraq. With the ridiculous 'you're either with us or you're against us' attitude towards your own populous by many... Your insane love of humoungous gas guzzling SUVs that has leached over to other countries (sadly Austrlaia is afflicted with this too), the general impression that you lot seem to think that the USA is the be all and end all of what a country should be. That is spends such an ungodly amount of money on war when just a fraction of that being spent on your failing education system would create a new generation of elightened kids who could help steer the US of A back on course.

These things and more are what annoys a lot of us about the US, and the fact that it is the largest, and the strongest country in the world and does these things affects ALL of us.

Religion: Oh this so isn't badnwagon jumping on the anti religion crowd, this is those of us who don't believe in religion getting to a point of deciding enough is enough and having to speak up. When religion starts forcing its way into politics, when schools start having their SCIENCE classes changed to teach 'INTELLIGENT DESIGN'... COME ON, how can we not get angry, you are creating children who think it's ok to believe in something jut because a book colaboratively written by a bunch of guys a long time ago and then altered inumerable times thereafter says so.

We have more than enough reason to be really shitty at religion and the US at present.

BUT.

I know a number of people in the states personally, and they're great people who also hate the direction the country is headed, I know there are millions more of the same mindset. If you can just get the country to start going in the right direction there is still hope and the US can become a beacon once again, rather than a demonstration of how NOT to do things.

And religion... in the right context can be great, when you don't try and force said beliefs on others, don't try to teach 'gospel' in our classrooms as scientific fact, don't persecute people because they don't believe in what you do... then it's fine. Live by those 10 commandments (actually live by them, especially 'do unto others') and we'd all be happier I think.

Don't try and belittle people who have valid concerns by trying to suggest we're just 'bandwagon' jumpers, that's just small minded and cheap.

Of course, we know this video is all about the cheap shots... doesn't mean we don't find it funny... Find me a similar one on Australia, and I'll upvote that too... we have a sense of humour about our country, we don't get all antsy at the smallest whiff on 'non patriotic' behavior.

edit: Actually, The Simpsons take on Australia I remember I got a bit shitty about this way back when, took it to heart a bit. But these days I find it piss funny. You have to know with these things that people don't think they're REAL, they know it's all a JOKE... Lighten up.

Yet more evidence of American zealotry in the place of common sense. And further evidence of a failed educational system that teaches people that stubbornness is more important than cognition.

Pathetic.