>> ^iwazaru:
so you're just assuming some kind of dualism. and jumping from that to any specific brand of religion is a giant non-sequitur.

I don't think that the dichotomy between dualism and materialism is meaningful beyond a certain sense of historical importance.

Is an idea different from, say, an apple? Trivially, yes. Is a thought located somewhere within our craniums? Trivially, yes.

So they're both true. Or both false. Take your pick.

There's a variety of flavors of dualisms and materialisms, but I don't think any are very good ways of trying to explain the world.

I'm talking about consciousness / self-awareness / being.
The fact that our consciousness transitioned from nothingness to existence is the sole fact we have in the matter, so the preponderance of the evidence can only point to Buddhism or Christianity
so you're just assuming some kind of dualism. and jumping from that to any specific brand of religion is a giant non-sequitur.

A dangerous dualism.

The preponderence of the evidence suggests that consciousness is the action of the brain. You only need to study the psychological effects of various physical circumstances, drugs, and brain damages to see so. A corrolary of this is that when the brain decomposes, the last remnant and hope of regaining consciousness is destroyed, unless the data constituting the hardware and software of the brain has been preserved by some other means. Since no such means are yet known, there is probably no afterlife.

Perhaps one of the reasons Islam forbids the use of alcohol is that the knowledge of any mind-altering substance undermines dualism, and dualism is a scaffold for belief in an afterlife.

It is so unfortunate that he did not get the nomination, if the republican party had any ounce of intelligence and truly wanted to reclaim they're namesake after bush, then they should have nominated Ron Paul. I absolutely hate the dualism our country likes to segregate everything into, I was all for voting Paul had he been in the final run. Fuck Republican/Democrat, people should vote for what is right for the country as a whole, this is not an election for prom king & queen it's the fucking presidency.

Hate crimes laws are there to be infinitely improved upon to eventually include all forms of action or speech deemed improper by the state-

Judgements regarding the ten Commandments disallowed in public places being allowed to establish precedent, will further the agenda of those who would welcome authoritarian control, so it actually benefits the fucking atheist rant and ravers, to support it-

Windbag Christians are only effectual to the degree that they give corporate and elitist controlled media outlets fuel for their furnace of disinformation and consolidation of power.

Oh and, atheists?? The fucking Ten Commandments???...a basic framework for monkeys with no better since than to wipe their ass with their food hand, or place the same hand in a situation that destroys the entire body....basic tenants of most faiths and disciplines that built societies....what problem do atheists have with the 10 commandments???

I'll tell ya-they haven't figured it out yet, because they are blinded by the "GOD" label.....it is a reflex, a reaction developed and indulged in by un-actualized mind-

(no doubt there are some of you folks, who simply write this rant off, as coming from some fundy.....Fuck all, dualism is y'alls disease, not mine....))

Thanks for the thorough review Crosswords, comments like yours are what I come to the Sift for .

I was left wanting more background after listening to Wallace, so I looked for sources to fill in the gaps in my understanding. This talk by John Searle helped a great deal:
http://www.videosift.com/video/John-Searle-Beyond-dualism
His categorization of the qualities of consciousness rings true, and having listened to him I'll definitely look for some of his writing.

About the thesis of the talk, there really does seem to be a convergence happening in the mind sciences right now. It's an incredibly exciting field to follow.

Here's a Salon article on Wallace, called "Buddha on the brain".
http://www.salon.com/books/int/2006/11/27/wallace/

Descartes asked, "What is the extension of a thought?" (I.e., what is the size of a thought?) I think scientists made a rather stupid mistake by mistaking dualism for saying that there is no connection between the mind and brain... on the contrary, the analogy is better like the information carried by an electron in an ethernet cable -- there's certainly a correlation, but the nature of information and the nature of an electron are two totally different things.

That said, Deepak is just repackaging Hinduism for a New Age crowd -- we're all Brahman, etc. etc.

"Nevertheless, cartesian dualism is universally rejected among eminent scientists. The mind/spirit/brain are all the same thing."

For what it's worth, Cartesian dualism is almost universally rejected by academic philosophers, too.

Nevertheless, cartesian dualism is universally rejected among eminent scientists. The mind/spirit/brain are all the same thing.

theocracy is a label....never been one of late, never will be, religion the tool, the mortar, used to build and to break down-dualism is a problem, like a gun in the hand of a chimp......

The real problem lies in the lies, that religious proclivity with relation to a society's prosper or failing, is at issue....

the rub is robot monkeys, believing lies, with relation to their well-being....

qualm, you seem to be under some delusion, that there exists, an alternative to the 2 party system, or that some grand achievement could be made, in redirecting spending, to right the social ills of the nation, rather than dealing with the clusterfuck abroad, ala policing the planet, etc.....the system is in retrograde-the planet's problems are not really being addressed by anyone

right/left black/white good/evil....always has to be just two, that's the disease that has been cultivated in the minds of the linear, symbol-addicted, dualism of the planets peasantry and puddys.....States, by the way, would do better on their own, esp. mine..Texas.

and as always, fuck Medicare, or socialized medicine...you people that want to worry about yer health, eat right-Most of the goddamn ills associated with the health of the Nation, come from what goes into the mouth-And if they want to revitalize and make fair, the Medical Estab.-OFFER NO CARE TO NON-CITIZENS, W/O $$$$$

As for RP, again, no chance-he is not connected-

well strictly speaking if he's advaita doesn't meen he believes in "god" (advaita is non dualism, and that can, in our sinchretistic times, easily be conneted with a sort of materialistic monism) and, well buddhist don't believe in a God as a personal path to salvation, and one can be an atheistic buddhist - no problem.
My guess is that he explains buddhism, it's goal of nirvana, via the possibilities of the human brain, and mental states.

http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neuro/neuro02/web1/hhochman.html

"Meat all the Way Down": Colin McGinn's The Mysterious Flame

"Early in The Mysterious Flame, (1)., philosopher Colin McGinn's breezy but provocative discussion of the relationship between consciousness and the brain, McGinn presents a telling vignette from a science fiction story in which aliens are discussing their observations of humans:

"These creatures are the only sentient race in the sector and they're made out of meat. . . .They're meat all the way through."
"No brain?"
"Oh, there is a brain all right. It's just that the brain is made out of meat."
"So . . .what does the thinking?"
"You're not understanding, are you? The brain does the thinking. The meat."
"Thinking meat! You're asking me to believe in thinking meat!"
"Yes, thinking meat! Conscious meat! Loving meat. Dreaming meat. The meat is the whole deal. Are you getting the picture?" (1).

It is this apparent contradiction, that initially insensate organic material can create consciousness, a phenomenon without apparent material content or spatial location, which McGinn sets out to explain. Many philosophers and scientists have undertaken this journey before him, but McGinn contends that this long road of philosophical inquiry is actually a blind alley. While McGinn believes that the mind is indeed a product of the material qualities of the brain, he argues that the mind (or brain) does not itself possess the ability solve what philosophers denominate "the mind-body problem," (although "mind-brain problem" might be more accurate).

McGinn begins by rejecting both traditional materialism and dualism. Materialists propose that the brain and consciousness are one and the same: thus, brain waves not only correlate with consciousness, they are consciousness. McGinn faults this position for ignoring the very nature of conscious experience. The experience of consciousness, he argues, does not directly correlate with brain waves or the activity on a PET scan. Studying these physical phenomena alone will tell the observer nothing about the experience of consciousness, while endless introspective inspection of one's conscious state would not lead to any description of the brain's anatomy or physiology, let alone that neurons within it were firing as one thought.

Likewise, McGinn rejects dualism, the proposition that consciousness exists completely independent of the brain, because its proponents also ignore empirical observations. Were consciousness completely disconnected from the brain, a fully functioning brain could exist without consciousness, and consciousness could exist independent of the brain, thereby producing what McGinn terms ghosts (disembodied minds) and zombies (organisms with mindless brains, beings who can act but who do not perceive). Dualism thus does not account for empirical observations of conscious organisms, in which the consciousness's existence appears to depend on the brain's activity, and vice-versus. Yet neither science nor philosophy has yet offered a satisfactory explanation of this interdependence.

McGinn offers a third way out of the mind-brain problem: pessimism and acceptance of failure. McGinn agrees with materialists that it is properties of the brain, and the brain alone, which produce consciousness. These properties, however, are unknowable, emerging in their turn from properties of space and matter that the human brain cannot perceive. He postulates a theory he dubs "mysterianism," a respectable way of saying the world will never know. McGinn argues that, in contemplating the origin and nature of consciousness, the human mind has come to the edge of its conceptual capacity: the mind peers over the cliff, but can see nothing but an endless abyss below. While human intelligence can perceive the problem, it cannot understand the answer. "

by Hilary Hochman