I want a "No, copyright laws are antiquated." option.

copying and then tweaking is how technology really progresses fast. a la steve jobs
our copyright laws essentially limit how fast we can evolve (technologically)

Well, the question is does the coach's face make it transformative?

God I have been way too into copyright law. Thanks SOPA!

Copyright law seems to be a total dog's breakfast. From an economic perspective, it just seems like a massive unnecessary barrier to free trade in ideas.

I always think they are playing some kind of game when they bring forward presidential candidates that seem more like whack jobs you read about on the internet than someone who'd be running your country. And then one who ends up being the best of the bunch is........basically the definition of a one percenter and is pretending he's not. Exactly the group most people in the country have a severe distrust of.....and they pick a guy whose company is the definition of "all short term profits" when it comes to make decisions for the "improving" of companies other than their own....than usually end up costing jobs, bringing on debt and later killing off the company they "improved" under said debt after being sold.

Seems kinda............the exact opposite of who and what should be getting put forth in front of the voters huh. Much like all the Copyright laws and other spying things that keep getting passed yet massive disapproval from the general population when they actually understand what is being voted on.

And very few in the media seems to notice how nuts all of this is. Insanity doesn't describe it properly.

Any public news outlet should know their copyright laws. This old guy is 100% in the wrong.
$500 for the article is nothing compared to the price of a lawsuit.
Pay the writer and learn from your mistakes Mr. Newspaper man.

>> ^deedub81:

He didn't make one substantive argument. His speech is very vague and generalized. The only thing I got from that was that he doesn't like the current copyright laws.


It's not that he doesn't like them, but that they are no longer fit for purpose...

Things become obselete. Usually because we create better things to replace them, but also because the world moves on and they cease to be relevant.

He's also not advocating piracy, but telling the industry if they adapated and made things easier for the consumer (much like the comic that was linked indicates), people would buy more rather than pirating.

For the record, he also said that 99% of the people on the planet are pirates, and that there are 50 Billion people on earth. Both statements are off by about the same margin of error.

"His kids only know piracy because that is how they get the content."
"Content needs to be more convenient"
"reference to a report done who's conclusion that copyright isn't working." (In his reference, he states, "basically what they said was 'we have to change copyright.'")

What content? What form of piracy? How can it be more convenient. How can content be distributed so that it's more convenient while still turning a profit? How should copyright in the digital world be handled differently and how would that benefit publishers and consumers?

An example of what his kids do is not proof of a societal trend.

"I'm willing to be the conversation was longer than 2:15 min" (if that's the case, I might be willing to upvote THAT video).


>> ^curiousity:

>> ^deedub81:
He didn't make one substantive argument. His speech is very vague and generalized. The only thing I got from that was that he doesn't like the current copyright laws.

Did watch the same thing? He clearly says that it needs to change because it isn't working.
- Vast majority of people is a pirate is some form. When everyone is breaking the law, we need to look at the law.
- His kids only know piracy because that is how they get the content... leading to the next point
- Content needs to be more convenient, which the content industry is not doing
- reference to a report done who's conclusion that copyright isn't working.
- copyright in physical world is different. Copyright in digital needs to be handled differently
Sure they are mostly generalized, but they are coherent points. If you want more, I'm willing to be the conversation was longer than 2:15 min.

>> ^deedub81:

He didn't make one substantive argument. His speech is very vague and generalized. The only thing I got from that was that he doesn't like the current copyright laws.


Did watch the same thing? He clearly says that it needs to change because it isn't working.

- Vast majority of people is a pirate is some form. When everyone is breaking the law, we need to look at the law.
- His kids only know piracy because that is how they get the content... leading to the next point
- Content needs to be more convenient, which the content industry is not doing
- reference to a report done who's conclusion that copyright isn't working.
- copyright in physical world is different. Copyright in digital needs to be handled differently

Sure they are mostly generalized, but they are coherent points. If you want more, I'm willing to be the conversation was longer than 2:15 min.

He didn't make one substantive argument. His speech is very vague and generalized. The only thing I got from that was that he doesn't like the current copyright laws.

>> ^gwiz665:

Ultimately, the service they would provide would be content before any of the knock offs. Plenty of companies have tried to make knockoffs of wow, some even with otherwise very compelling universes in the baggage (lord of the rings online, warhammer online), but no one has come close yet. Star Wars the Old Republic might, but I doubt it. A rose by any other name is still WoW. And right now they have a critical mass of users, which is all they need. They could shit in a shoebox and call it Mist of Pandaria and millions will buy it on the release day.

Sure, there exists private servers of Wow at this point too, and some people like to play on them, but for me? I wouldn't even want to. There's no challenge when everything is possible.

I think we're talking about different things. Here you're describing people making "knock offs" of WoW by actually trying to independently create a new game from scratch without directly copying any artwork or code from WoW, but still kinda looks and feels and plays like WoW.

I'm talking about firing up the DVD-burner, and making a 100% exact copy of WoW. If that were legal, people would do it. In other words, the "private server" thing. Right now they're mostly script kiddies diddling themselves with Legendary items, because if they tried to actually replicate the WoW-server service and charge money for it, they'd be forced to shut down, and probably get thrown in jail too.

If that constraint weren't there, I'm sure you'd see an explosion of "competitors" for WoW "service". And I'm sure the market would explode with all kinds of people trying to differentiate themselves on service and price, but I'm sure the competition would force the average price well below what Blizzard's charging.

And that's the rub -- without being able to hold a monopoly over the monthly service charge, or even be able to demand $40 for the expansions, would Blizzard even bother with a Mists of Pandaria expansion?

I do think we could make things a lot better if they'd stop extending the time limit on things going into the public domain. Any content older than 10 years should be public domain, period.

Ultimately, the service they would provide would be content before any of the knock offs. Plenty of companies have tried to make knockoffs of wow, some even with otherwise very compelling universes in the baggage (lord of the rings online, warhammer online), but no one has come close yet. Star Wars the Old Republic might, but I doubt it. A rose by any other name is still WoW. And right now they have a critical mass of users, which is all they need. They could shit in a shoebox and call it Mist of Pandaria and millions will buy it on the release day.

Sure, there exists private servers of Wow at this point too, and some people like to play on them, but for me? I wouldn't even want to. There's no challenge when everything is possible. I'm certain that even if a joint effort between developers of all sorts banded together to copy and create an MMO like wow, it would likely be crap, because they have no other incentive to make it than "because we can". Design decisions based on that are not good - look at linux. Even Mozilla is a company nowadays. A command structure is essential in creating a massive work of art in a reasonable time.

Making a copy of WoW isn't "just" making a copy of WoW, it's enormous. By the time someone has copied it to the finer details, the game will have moved on to something else; systems change all the time.

A good example of something happening like you say is Vampires: Bloodlines where the community made a huge amount of "community patches" to fix the game, after the developer went bankrupt. I like that, but they could do it because the things they were fixing were straight forward. If they wanted to make entirely new things, who decides which things are good and bad? Like wikipedia, they would need custodians. A private company like Blizzard does not have that problem.

I was certainly a little too broad when I said all intellectual property is bunk. First of all I have a problem with the umbrella term of IP. I don't think it's helpful. Different types of IP have different solutions and problems. Some are more bunk than others. (Wtf is with they way rights to music works? What is it now, 100 years after the artist dies? Crazy.)

Like you I am philosophically on the "you can't own ideas, man"-wagon, but practically I'm more loose with my morals - hell, morals are fluid baby.

I'll say this. I would rather have 50000 people playing my game and 50 people paying for it, than I would have 50 people playing my game and paying for it any day.

>> ^NetRunner:

I think this is the most plausible way I've seen anyone square this circle. I'm just not sure it really holds up to scrutiny.
Philosophically, I'm in the "information isn't property" camp, but I also put food on the table by creating intellectual property.
The confluence of my own philosophical tastes on this topic would be that not only should "making copies" be legalized, it should actually be criminal to withhold any sort of scientific or engineering advance from the broader public, especially for selfish gain.
But, I think that would essentially destroy software companies as we know them. I think Blizzard & WoW would have trouble making the case to people that their service is worth $140/yr. That's especially true in the kind of world in which any content they generate can just be copied by a knockoff service provider just as easily as the original copy of WoW was in the first place.
I have trouble even imagining what sort of service they'd be able to compete on in that world. Uptime? In-game customer service? Best policing of player misbehavior? It can't be bugfixes (copyable), and it can't be content (also copyable).
I think ultimately WoW would have to become something more like an open source project -- the community provides all bugfixes and content gratis. Blizzard ultimately would have to give up any kind of creative or engineering control at that point, and also give up on having a revenue stream of millions of dollars a month, too. They'd just be a glorified hosting company. Companies like Microsoft probably wouldn't even be that.
It'd probably be better for the whole world that way, but not so awesome for incumbents in the industry.
You know, people like you and me.
>> ^gwiz665:
Essentially you couldn't. You would not be able to provide a better service without spending a very very large amount of money and effort into doing it. An MMO is a service, and you have to provide more than just stable servers for it to work, you also have to create new content, bug fixes etc to maintain the integrity of the product.
You can design your way out of it easily. Free to play is one way of doing it, which we have a lot of success with on iOS and the big shots on PC are waking up to as well, finally. Apple in general have their app rejection policy which keeps the most things at bay, but of course there is jailbreaks, which I don't much care for.
I don't have a problem with people copying, although I would of course prefer they give me lots of money. If they corrupt our product however, with map hacks, cheats etc. then it's a much different issue.
I think it's a problem that many different types of media is lumped together under "intellectual property", because I do think things like Art, music etc should be protected from forgeries and that the original artist should be compensated for his time, otherwise we would have no art at all.
The industry is changing to provide a better service still though. Look at music - who buys CDs anymore? We have things like Spotify and Grooveshark who stream just about any music easily supported by commercials.
Any Blizzard game, and all their future games, will need a persistent internet connection, both for piracy issues but also for better service - instant patching, social networking etc. Same with steam.

I think this is the most plausible way I've seen anyone square this circle. I'm just not sure it really holds up to scrutiny.

Philosophically, I'm in the "information isn't property" camp, but I also put food on the table by creating intellectual property.

The confluence of my own philosophical tastes on this topic would be that not only should "making copies" be legalized, it should actually be criminal to withhold any sort of scientific or engineering advance from the broader public, especially for selfish gain.

But, I think that would essentially destroy software companies as we know them. I think Blizzard & WoW would have trouble making the case to people that their service is worth $140/yr. That's especially true in the kind of world in which any content they generate can just be copied by a knockoff service provider just as easily as the original copy of WoW was in the first place.

I have trouble even imagining what sort of service they'd be able to compete on in that world. Uptime? In-game customer service? Best policing of player misbehavior? It can't be bugfixes (copyable), and it can't be content (also copyable).

I think ultimately WoW would have to become something more like an open source project -- the community provides all bugfixes and content gratis. Blizzard ultimately would have to give up any kind of creative or engineering control at that point, and also give up on having a revenue stream of millions of dollars a month, too. They'd just be a glorified hosting company. Companies like Microsoft probably wouldn't even be that.

It'd probably be better for the whole world that way, but not so awesome for incumbents in the industry.

You know, people like you and me.

>> ^gwiz665:

Essentially you couldn't. You would not be able to provide a better service without spending a very very large amount of money and effort into doing it. An MMO is a service, and you have to provide more than just stable servers for it to work, you also have to create new content, bug fixes etc to maintain the integrity of the product.
You can design your way out of it easily. Free to play is one way of doing it, which we have a lot of success with on iOS and the big shots on PC are waking up to as well, finally. Apple in general have their app rejection policy which keeps the most things at bay, but of course there is jailbreaks, which I don't much care for.
I don't have a problem with people copying, although I would of course prefer they give me lots of money. If they corrupt our product however, with map hacks, cheats etc. then it's a much different issue.
I think it's a problem that many different types of media is lumped together under "intellectual property", because I do think things like Art, music etc should be protected from forgeries and that the original artist should be compensated for his time, otherwise we would have no art at all.
The industry is changing to provide a better service still though. Look at music - who buys CDs anymore? We have things like Spotify and Grooveshark who stream just about any music easily supported by commercials.
Any Blizzard game, and all their future games, will need a persistent internet connection, both for piracy issues but also for better service - instant patching, social networking etc. Same with steam.

Essentially you couldn't. You would not be able to provide a better service without spending a very very large amount of money and effort into doing it. An MMO is a service, and you have to provide more than just stable servers for it to work, you also have to create new content, bug fixes etc to maintain the integrity of the product.

You can design your way out of it easily. Free to play is one way of doing it, which we have a lot of success with on iOS and the big shots on PC are waking up to as well, finally. Apple in general have their app rejection policy which keeps the most things at bay, but of course there is jailbreaks, which I don't much care for.

I don't have a problem with people copying, although I would of course prefer they give me lots of money. If they corrupt our product however, with map hacks, cheats etc. then it's a much different issue.

I think it's a problem that many different types of media is lumped together under "intellectual property", because I do think things like Art, music etc should be protected from forgeries and that the original artist should be compensated for his time, otherwise we would have no art at all.

The industry is changing to provide a better service still though. Look at music - who buys CDs anymore? We have things like Spotify and Grooveshark who stream just about any music easily supported by commercials.

Any Blizzard game, and all their future games, will need a persistent internet connection, both for piracy issues but also for better service - instant patching, social networking etc. Same with steam.

>> ^longde:

Wow. Just wow. If rampant piracy existed in your country, or the key markets for your products, you wouldn't have a livelihood.
How can "service" or "design" stop outright duplication of a work?
So, if I completely duplicate WOW, from the look and feel to the name, and everyone flocks to my servers, that's just tough nuts for Blizzard, right?>> ^gwiz665:
Reproduce all you like. That said, I'm just a part of who makes it, so the official stance on piracy etc etc is not my call. But for my 2 cents, piracy is a service issue. You can design your way out of it.
>> ^longde:
I find it wildly ironic that a VIDEO GAME DEVELOPER decries the concept of INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY.
To use your analogy: so it's OK if I independently reproduce your video games and make money off them.>> ^gwiz665:
Agreed. If I built a ford out of parts I made myself, down to the fucking molecule, it still wouldn't be stealing. I have not taken anything from anyone.
Intellectual Property is a phantom dreamed up by those who want to control information. Information wants out. Information wants to be free. In the end it cannot be controlled.
Make a better service, then software piracy becomes a moot point.
>> ^GeeSussFreeK:
STOP CALLING IT STOLEN! The entirety of human culture is stolen by that kind of logic. You can only steal something that is a limited resource, of which bits really are not.

Wow. Just wow. If rampant piracy existed in your country, or the key markets for your products, you wouldn't have a livelihood.

How can "service" or "design" stop outright duplication of a work?

So, if I completely duplicate WOW, from the look and feel to the name, and everyone flocks to my servers, that's just tough nuts for Blizzard, right?>> ^gwiz665:

Reproduce all you like. That said, I'm just a part of who makes it, so the official stance on piracy etc etc is not my call. But for my 2 cents, piracy is a service issue. You can design your way out of it.
>> ^longde:
I find it wildly ironic that a VIDEO GAME DEVELOPER decries the concept of INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY.
To use your analogy: so it's OK if I independently reproduce your video games and make money off them.>> ^gwiz665:
Agreed. If I built a ford out of parts I made myself, down to the fucking molecule, it still wouldn't be stealing. I have not taken anything from anyone.
Intellectual Property is a phantom dreamed up by those who want to control information. Information wants out. Information wants to be free. In the end it cannot be controlled.
Make a better service, then software piracy becomes a moot point.
>> ^GeeSussFreeK:
STOP CALLING IT STOLEN! The entirety of human culture is stolen by that kind of logic. You can only steal something that is a limited resource, of which bits really are not.