Yes, it's SO true, bjj will reform your ego. I have lost track at how many times I have been choked out. I'll go back to bjj after I get my hakama in aikido. No rush, I'm not a warrior, just an individual that appreciates complex human movement. The movements in aikido are more interesting to me + bokken and jo = neat.

Awesome and not that this needs anything added to it but the dude's a BJJ and MMA teacher.... just saying.

Yup, I should of known it was going to go this way.

This post wasn't to say Systema = superior MA.
Evidently if you're counting on competing in the octagon you're going to go with grappling/BJJ + Kick-boxing/MuayThai etc. but the UFC & Co are a very small part of life.

That being said, having practiced a similar art to Systema, I can guarantee that when you train with an experienced and balanced partner there's no compliance if you're serious about your training. It's actually a team work where you point out your opponent's openings and mistakes and gradually go faster and harder. And then there's a limit to what you can spar without risking serious injury : that's when you slow it down.

In the end, again, it's about what works for you and what you need as a person in your private and/or professional life.

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A BJJ black belt once told me it's a good strategy to provoke the other guy to charge against you, because it makes them very predictable.

The kid in the video used the open space to his advantage to back up and avoid the incoming swings, which was awesome. He suggested using the opportunity to do a takedown (BJJ's most usual standing attack anyway), which is very unexpected to most people.

I just dug up the UFC rules and it seems I've been mislead. There's no rule about what types of chokes can be performed. In light of this I find it odd that the BJJ technique usually applied focuses more on the airway than the arteries.

I would like to see some evidence of "stuck" arteries. I'm not finding any.

>> ^chilaxe:
The claims that non-collusive sparring can't be done using Aikido without hurting the opponent too badly can be tested easily against a mixed martial artist willing to risk broken arms, wrists, fingers etc. (he won't think it's much of a risk). I believe this issue is only going to grow, as mixed martial arts is growing rapidly, with viewership of the monthly UFC events eclipsing boxing and sometimes even baseball viewership among the under 40 generation.

This would be ridiculous, because aikido is practiced as a defensive art. Also see my points below. As an anecdote, there was such a duel arranged between one of Osensei's student and an american judo champion for a film on aikido in the 1960's. The judo guy was told not to attack since aikido was a defensive art. So he didn't. But the aikido representative (Akira Tohei), feinted an attack to create an opening and finally got the much bigger American judo guy on the ground. Still afterwards he was scolded by Osensei who said "You should have waited for an attack no matter what!". This is to say that there is no point in fighting if it's not to defend your life (or honor, since for the old Japanese the two are equal).


Isn't it a good cause to encourage Aikido to back up its claims, or to utilize more realistic sparring? UFC champs become millionaires, so there does seem to be ample incentive to participate.

Japanese bushi (samurai) did not participate in "realistic sparring" with their jujutsu techniques, yet the best of them could have probably killed any UFC champ. Why? Because they were ready to die at anytime. At that level, an untrained and sloppy but sudden and unexpected eye poke, for example, can become a lethal tool.

In my eyes, Judo and MMA competitions are much more dance-like than aikido practice. They're "freeform" dances. In judo and MMA you both have freedom from kata, but you lose that freedom because of 1) rules and 2) the "fair duel" setup, i.e. two guys that know when they will be fighting each other and even sometimes know what techniques the other favors. Aikido on the contrary doesn't require a "fair duel" situation to be effective. In fact, many (dan level) techniques are done with two or three opponents. We also practice with 4 or more opponents to make sure our techniques can flow instinctively under pressure. Karate still has kata with many opponent situation but most student don't even know they're fighting more than one "shadow" opponent in their kata. In comparison, in aikido we practice our "kata" (techniques) with a partner. This is because jujutsu is a skin-to-skin contact art, so you have to train your somatic sensations, up to being able to execute a technique in full darkness (this is practiced in many dojo in fact).

On the other hand, what is difficult with both competition and kata practice is to understand that in a non-comptetition or non-practice situation, you do not have to conform to kata or techniques. You execute them when the occasion presents itself, otherwise you try to create, in the heat of the moment, such an occasion (with atemi or some other distraction). In the end, the best teachers are real situations: if you really want to know if you're ready, go catch some criminals or kill some terrorists.

P.S. I know true judo (as done by Kano and Mifune for example) and many of the arts practiced in MMA by themselves don't need the "fair duel" setup to be effective, but the way they train for competitions makes it so (in fact Gracie jujutsu was made for fair duels. That's how they became famous in Brazil, by dueling. Saying that BJJ is good on the street is like saying a rapier is good on a battlefield: complete nonsense).

I agree, "collusive" (what you normally see in aikido)practice is useless. Forget about all that stuff they teach about ki and inner power. all it amounts to is good balance, and attacking the attacker.

I do like good discourse about the difference between art and discipline.

MMA is sport, as is kendo (fencing) and there are rules, as in all things. But in real "combat" (rare) there are no rules, and if only we could train like that can we be sure of any thing.

BTW That video below ... is really funny.

In reply to this comment by chilaxe:
Thanks for your response. I think if practitioners are used to their opponent giving them an arm to manipulate and not putting up resistance, they'll be very surprised if they're ever in combat with a determined attacker.

I think the momentum in the martial arts world is in favor of MMA, and the challenge for Aikido in the modern scene is to prove to skeptics it can be effective in that context. Relaxing the taboo against competing with other disciplines would probably go a long way. Also, the UFC has no rules against most Aikido moves, so if they were as effective as they're supposed to be, one would expect there would be at least one UFC fighter training in Aikido rather than the usual striking arts combined with submission wrestling/BJJ.

My concern is just that most people would be better off studying MMA-proven, combat-oriented disciplines .

In reply to this comment by NordlichReiter:
The aikido you see on youtube is demonstration. This Kiai master is not Aikido. He is Ki society. Until you have trained for a class in aikido Hapkido, or any of these types you cant understand that in certain holds you cannot fight without loosing a limb in the process.

I can speak for my school that there are serious students and there are the "I want a black belt type." Most of the time people are "I'm a black belt type." These people diminish the training. In the classes that I attend there are 2 wrestlers(judo), 4 bjj guys, several karateka(Japanese Schools), and 2 boxers. The rest are martial undergrads with no previous experience.

The one thing I have learned in 15 years of martial training, is that you cannot train to win, only train to survive. No situation is a surething, you may think you will win but even then you could trip on a pebble and fall on face.

In reply to this comment by chilaxe:
Don't be fooled. In aikido practice, if you resist the moves they're doing on you, they don't work and it's just embarrassing for everybody. Kind of like this classic vid: http://www.videosift.com/video/Kiai-Master-Gets-Owned

Empiricism is better than faith

Thanks for your response. I think if practitioners are used to their opponent giving them an arm to manipulate and not putting up resistance, they'll be very surprised if they're ever in combat with a determined attacker.

I think the momentum in the martial arts world is in favor of MMA, and the challenge for Aikido in the modern scene is to prove to skeptics it can be effective in that context. Relaxing the taboo against competing with other disciplines would probably go a long way. Also, the UFC has no rules against most Aikido moves, so if they were as effective as they're supposed to be, one would expect there would be at least one UFC fighter training in Aikido rather than the usual striking arts combined with submission wrestling/BJJ.

My concern is just that most people would be better off studying MMA-proven, combat-oriented disciplines .

In reply to this comment by NordlichReiter:
The aikido you see on youtube is demonstration. This Kiai master is not Aikido. He is Ki society. Until you have trained for a class in aikido Hapkido, or any of these types you cant understand that in certain holds you cannot fight without loosing a limb in the process.

I can speak for my school that there are serious students and there are the "I want a black belt type." Most of the time people are "I'm a black belt type." These people diminish the training. In the classes that I attend there are 2 wrestlers(judo), 4 bjj guys, several karateka(Japanese Schools), and 2 boxers. The rest are martial undergrads with no previous experience.

The one thing I have learned in 15 years of martial training, is that you cannot train to win, only train to survive. No situation is a surething, you may think you will win but even then you could trip on a pebble and fall on face.

In reply to this comment by chilaxe:
Don't be fooled. In aikido practice, if you resist the moves they're doing on you, they don't work and it's just embarrassing for everybody. Kind of like this classic vid: http://www.videosift.com/video/Kiai-Master-Gets-Owned

Empiricism is better than faith

The aikido you see on youtube is demonstration. This Kiai master is not Aikido. He is Ki society. Until you have trained for a class in aikido Hapkido, or any of these types you cant understand that in certain holds you cannot fight without loosing a limb in the process.

I can speak for my school that there are serious students and there are the "I want a black belt type." Most of the time people are "I'm a black belt type." These people diminish the training. In the classes that I attend there are 2 wrestlers(judo), 4 bjj guys, several karateka(Japanese Schools), and 2 boxers. The rest are martial undergrads with no previous experience.

The one thing I have learned in 15 years of martial training, is that you cannot train to win, only train to survive. No situation is a surething, you may think you will win but even then you could trip on a pebble and fall on face.

In reply to this comment by chilaxe:
Don't be fooled. In aikido practice, if you resist the moves they're doing on you, they don't work and it's just embarrassing for everybody. Kind of like this classic vid: http://www.videosift.com/video/Kiai-Master-Gets-Owned

Empiricism is better than faith

I've learned to take pleasure in the slow filtering of functional martial arts into mainstream attention and media, so when I see something like Flash Point, I just nudge my training buddies and say, "Look dude, an RNC!" and then continue stuffing carcinogenic popcorn and swedish fish in my mouth in complete disobedience of any regular dietary regiment and with total disregard for my physical health.

I don't kick newbies off the mats during BJJ training for spazzing out or giving up their back. They're newbies, it's what they do. Donnie Yen is the cinematic equivalent of a no-stripe white belt. Pat him on the back, maybe mention how next time he should probably not try bench-pressing the guy from under mount, and tell him you'll see him tomorrow, same place, same time. That's how progress is made, y'know?

Tags for this video have been changed from 'MMA, jiu jitsu, elbow, tap, fight, BJJ, kimura, ude garami' to 'sub grappling, jiu jitsu, elbow, tap, fight, BJJ, kimura, ude garami' - edited by rembar