ahem, i think you need to read this

>> ^Lawdeedaw:

Actually, I have yet to blame wall street for the single collaspe of the economy. You must be confused. But then again, there are shiny objects nearby.
And where would we be without wall street you ask? Glad you did, although, I doubt you will ponder the answer any more than the time it takes me to flush a turd.
We would be just fine so long as GDP, trade and jobs are secure. Just fine indeed. We would have ups and downs, turn arounds and rebounds, but none caused by a few bad mistakes or intentional greed. It would not be, like you said I think, a utopia. Where did you get that silly statement from?
To think we need a select few people running the ups and downs of this nation's economy, to think that their gambles and that of the banks can tax the American people to death, and to think that one day wealth can be gained and lost in the trillions, that is insane. Now you see it, now its in the pocket of one or two people. I mean, 401Ks are just the irresponsibilty of people who invested in them. Must be socialism's fault, better, socialism security...
So, if the government crashes with federal debt, you will be saying, "What!? The government is the single collaspe of the economy? I mean, wall street was not responsible at all and no one entity can cause such mass economic devastation! Get over it!"
I will find that amusing.
>> ^thinker247:
There you go again, blaming Wall Street, as if they willingly destroyed the economy! Where do you think you'd be without Wall Street? Some utopia where businesses thrive just on supply and demand? I don't think so! There's always someone in the mix to mess with the machinery of progress. You just like to blame the current version for your problems. Try again.
>> ^Lawdeedaw:
>> ^thinker247:
Food Stamps, what a joke. I wish they'd quit taking my taxes and giving them to lazy ass poor people. If you want to eat, get a fucking job and quit living on welfare, deadbeats!

Or better, make people work for the stamps. Your way starves children out, because, after all, who will parents bum out on? Themselves? Nope, they will start with those that cannot protect themselves.
Even if a person collecting food stamps doesn't have children, it is still a good idea to offer them a "job" as you state. In this economy, caused by wall street greed that sucked the nation's wealth dry and Punished the middle class and poor alike, or in other words, imposed a Tax on the middle class and poor, it is the least their tax dollars could do to help out.
Oh, and unless you make like the top 95%, I would not complain... They pay the bulk, not middle class people like me. Of course they cause the bulk of our resources to be used, so tis only fair.

Actually, I have yet to blame wall street for the single collaspe of the economy. You must be confused. But then again, there are shiny objects nearby.

And where would we be without wall street you ask? Glad you did, although, I doubt you will ponder the answer any more than the time it takes me to flush a turd.

We would be just fine so long as GDP, trade and jobs are secure. Just fine indeed. We would have ups and downs, turn arounds and rebounds, but none caused by a few bad mistakes or intentional greed. It would not be, like you said I think, a utopia. Where did you get that silly statement from?

To think we need a select few people running the ups and downs of this nation's economy, to think that their gambles and that of the banks can tax the American people to death, and to think that one day wealth can be gained and lost in the trillions, that is insane. Now you see it, now its in the pocket of one or two people. I mean, 401Ks are just the irresponsibilty of people who invested in them. Must be socialism's fault, better, socialism security...

So, if the government crashes with federal debt, you will be saying, "What!? The government is the single collaspe of the economy? I mean, wall street was not responsible at all and no one entity can cause such mass economic devastation! Get over it!"

I will find that amusing.

>> ^thinker247:
There you go again, blaming Wall Street, as if they willingly destroyed the economy! Where do you think you'd be without Wall Street? Some utopia where businesses thrive just on supply and demand? I don't think so! There's always someone in the mix to mess with the machinery of progress. You just like to blame the current version for your problems. Try again.
>> ^Lawdeedaw:
>> ^thinker247:
Food Stamps, what a joke. I wish they'd quit taking my taxes and giving them to lazy ass poor people. If you want to eat, get a fucking job and quit living on welfare, deadbeats!

Or better, make people work for the stamps. Your way starves children out, because, after all, who will parents bum out on? Themselves? Nope, they will start with those that cannot protect themselves.
Even if a person collecting food stamps doesn't have children, it is still a good idea to offer them a "job" as you state. In this economy, caused by wall street greed that sucked the nation's wealth dry and Punished the middle class and poor alike, or in other words, imposed a Tax on the middle class and poor, it is the least their tax dollars could do to help out.
Oh, and unless you make like the top 95%, I would not complain... They pay the bulk, not middle class people like me. Of course they cause the bulk of our resources to be used, so tis only fair.

There you go again, blaming Wall Street, as if they willingly destroyed the economy! Where do you think you'd be without Wall Street? Some utopia where businesses thrive just on supply and demand? I don't think so! There's always someone in the mix to mess with the machinery of progress. You just like to blame the current version for your problems. Try again.
>> ^Lawdeedaw:

>> ^thinker247:
Food Stamps, what a joke. I wish they'd quit taking my taxes and giving them to lazy ass poor people. If you want to eat, get a fucking job and quit living on welfare, deadbeats!

Or better, make people work for the stamps. Your way starves children out, because, after all, who will parents bum out on? Themselves? Nope, they will start with those that cannot protect themselves.
Even if a person collecting food stamps doesn't have children, it is still a good idea to offer them a "job" as you state. In this economy, caused by wall street greed that sucked the nation's wealth dry and Punished the middle class and poor alike, or in other words, imposed a Tax on the middle class and poor, it is the least their tax dollars could do to help out.
Oh, and unless you make like the top 95%, I would not complain... They pay the bulk, not middle class people like me. Of course they cause the bulk of our resources to be used, so tis only fair.

>> ^thinker247:
Food Stamps, what a joke. I wish they'd quit taking my taxes and giving them to lazy ass poor people. If you want to eat, get a fucking job and quit living on welfare, deadbeats!


Or better, make people work for the stamps. Your way starves children out, because, after all, who will parents bum out on? Themselves? Nope, they will start with those that cannot protect themselves.

Even if a person collecting food stamps doesn't have children, it is still a good idea to offer them a "job" as you state. In this economy, caused by wall street greed that sucked the nation's wealth dry and Punished the middle class and poor alike, or in other words, imposed a Tax on the middle class and poor, it is the least their tax dollars could do to help out.

Oh, and unless you make like the top 95%, I would not complain... They pay the bulk, not middle class people like me. Of course they cause the bulk of our resources to be used, so tis only fair.

Call dupeof on http://www.videosift.com/video/Bill-Moyers-Journal-The-Healthcare-Lobby to get my votes.

Pennypacker, allow me to introduce you to Bill Moyers.

http://www.videosift.com/video/Bill-Moyers-Journal-The-Healthcare-Lobby

Here's Bill Moyers, commenting on the manipulation of the health-care debate by lobbyists.

Bill Moyers appears on PBS. Yet here he is criticizing democrats!?!? But, but, but... he's supposed to be part of the vast neolib conspiracy!

I believe the whole documentary was shown on Bill Moyers Journal, which is free online. The documentary was quite well made. You can find it here: http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/08282009/watch.html

Interesting. Which country do you live in?

In reply to this comment by EDD:
I live in a post-soviet nation which just last year ranked lowest in terms of quality of health care in the EU - and for good reason. I couldn't explain our system if I wanted to, it's that chaotic; made up from remnants of soviet infrastructure and new institutions that were created in the 90s, but suffice to say that one pays for other folks' medical care in taxes AND when one has to make a doctor's appointment/perform a procedure as well - unless they have full insurance (which more often than not people don't). I'd say up to half of the population do not have the social benefit of employer-covered insurance and less than half of all the uninsured have a privately purchased health care plan. There is a national health service in name only - it just doesn't do what it's supposed to. The prices for the services are generally reasonable, the problem is that the country's welfare sucks, with the majority of pensions being below the minimum consumer basket(!!!).
Having said that, people sometimes have to wait months to get government-funded surgery, but that's line-based waiting and usually for transplants afaik, because there just aren't any. While there are private clinics, I've never heard of anybody having to wait longer in a state hospital because of bureaucracy or because they couldn't afford to pay extra - that's just wrong.

Now, as far as a public health care option is concerned I can say this: as an Eastern-European country we have our fair share of soviet-sympathizers, but they're the minority. However, even people that could now be called nationalists often reminisce about how great Soviet health care was - nobody paid a single dime and everybody got the same treatment (almost, actually - ruling party members were usually taken to military hospitals - I wonder why...). Anyway, QM can spout his BS all he wants, but socialized health care works, and the fact that it worked for the Soviet republics doesn't mean that it goes hand-in-hand with communism, it means that it just plain WORKS.

As far as the US is concerned, I just sifted this:
http://www.videosift.com/video/Health-Insurance-Insider-Speaks-Out-on-Fear-Tactics

Other great stuff from Bill Moyers:
http://vodpod.com/watch/1887246-bill-moyers-journal-money-and-the-news

*edit - what dag said. I'm kind of shocked at how any of the rich assholes that oppose public health care in the US haven't given the concept of herd immunity a single thought, or, that the opposition hasn't called them out on this. Then again I suppose the assholes expect their kids and grand-kids will be living in barb-wire fenced environments to keep the 'common folk' away.

I live in a post-soviet nation which just last year ranked lowest in terms of quality of health care in the EU - and for good reason. I couldn't explain our system if I wanted to, it's that chaotic; made up from remnants of soviet infrastructure and new institutions that were created in the 90s, but suffice to say that one pays for other folks' medical care in taxes AND when one has to make a doctor's appointment/perform a procedure as well - unless they have full insurance (which more often than not people don't). I'd say up to half of the population does not have the social benefit of employer-covered insurance and less than half of all the uninsured have a privately purchased health care plan. There is a national health service in name only - it just doesn't do what it's supposed to. The prices for the services are generally reasonable, the problem is that the country's welfare sucks, with the majority of pensions being below the minimum consumer basket(!!!).
Having said that, people sometimes have to wait months to get government-funded surgery, but that's line-based waiting and usually for transplants afaik, because there just never seem to be enough of those around. While there are private clinics, I've never heard of anybody having to wait longer in a state hospital because of bureaucracy or because they couldn't afford to pay extra - that's just wrong.

Now, as far as a public health care option is concerned I can say this: as an Eastern-European country we have our fair share of soviet-sympathizers, but they're the minority. However, even people that could now be called nationalists often reminisce about how great Soviet health care was - nobody paid a single dime and everybody got the same treatment (almost, actually - ruling party members were usually taken to military hospitals - I wonder why...). Anyway, QM can spout his BS all he wants, but socialized health care works, and the fact that it worked for the Soviet republics doesn't mean that it goes hand-in-hand with communism, it means that it just plain WORKS.

As far as the US is concerned, I just sifted this:
http://www.videosift.com/video/Health-Insurance-Insider-Speaks-Out-on-Fear-Tactics

Other great stuff from Bill Moyers:
http://vodpod.com/watch/1887246-bill-moyers-journal-money-and-the-news

*edit - what dag said. I'm kind of shocked at how any of the rich assholes that oppose public health care in the US haven't given the concept of herd immunity a single thought, or, that the opposition hasn't called them out on this. Then again I suppose the assholes expect their kids and grand-kids will be living in barb-wire fenced environments to keep the 'common folk' away.

Also see:
http://www.videosift.com/video/Excerpt-from-Bill-Moyers-Journal-Buying-the-War
and
http://www.videosift.com/video/Bill-Moyers-Journal-Buying-the-War-trailer

slight extension of this one - http://www.videosift.com/video/Jon-Stewart-on-Bill-Moyers-Journal

possible dupe, I'll discard if others agree...otherwise, I think the parts added are quite valuable.

Watch the whole thing here.

Watch the whole thing here.